Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel

Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy If Iran were to get involved in some way, this might be the excuse Bush needs to get in there....

They're already blaming Iran and Syria, both of whom - as vaguely guilty as they are - are immeasureably more involved than the Lebanese government.

Bush said the world needs to support the "agents of peace" in the Middle East, like Israel.

I can't believe anyone would think of any nation in this war as an agent of peace, especially not the one with the most blood on its hands - thousands of people's worth more than the others.

It's starting to make me crazy, truly crazy. I can't even sleep at night.

Why is the United States the only Western country that blindly supports Israel? It can't be related to the holocaust, or a fear of appearing anti-Semitic. That in itself bothers me as well; not being allowed to discuss it because suddenly you're anti-Semitic.

I respect the holocaust, and it's victims - but there's no such thing as genetically passing down pain and suffering. Yariv from Tel Aviv may be Jewish, but if you ask me who's suffered more - him or Asma from Nablus, and I think the answer would probably be Asma.

It's the same with Serbian nationalists and the Turks. Marko from Belgrade did NOT suffer under Turkish occupation. He's probably never even seen a f--king Turk so shut the f--k up about it.


Edited by Mila - 13-Jul-2006 at 22:19

It's just a defense mechanism so they don't have to consciously acknowledge their own suckiness, they can just blame it on some distant, abstract wrong.

swissinfo: In view of the rising death toll over the past couple of days, would it be fair to say that we're heading towards a new period of bloody conflict in the region?

 

Arnold Hottinger: It depends very much on the Israelis, whether they will want to reactivate the Lebanese front or whether they will content themselves with a few blows and leave it at that.

 

swissinfo: But Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert appears to be under pressure to strike hard against both Hamas and Hezbollah?

 

A.H. Certainly. He has the army standing right behind him, and it's difficult to tell the army [to hold back] when it has suffered an enormous loss of prestige over the captured soldiers. I'm sure Olmert is under pressure from the army to do the maximum, but he must think of the political consequences.

 

swissinfo: Is the capture of the three Israeli soldiers likely to bring the Israelis to the negotiating table?

 

A.H.: No, but there will be a new wave of hope among the Palestinians that they can achieve something. They can see that the capture of the soldiers has had a deep effect on the Israelis.

But the Palestinians are misreading the situation. In fact the Israelis and Palestinians both misread each other. The Israelis think that if they only beat them enough, the Palestinians will give in � and that's not true.

 

swissinfo: The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has appealed for intervention. What room is there for diplomacy now?

 

A.H.: It's too late. First of all the Americans will always take the Israeli side, and right now the Palestinians are convinced that the Americans are no real partner. Second, the Europeans have no clear position what they want to do � and they have no force to impose anything anyway.

So the fighting will go on. Both sides will insist on misreading the other and that will lead to a continuation and a slow increase of the crisis until they understand that they both have the wrong approach.

 

swissinfo: Did the failure of the international community to recognise a democratically elected Hamas given Israel a green light to go after them?

 

A.H.: It did certainly encourage Israel that nobody recognised Hamas, but it also forced Hamas into activism. If Hamas saw the possibility of a diplomatic way out, they would take it.

 

swissinfo: So it was a serious error of judgment by the international community not to recognise what is a democratically elected government?

 

A.H.: Too much was made of the word "terrorism". People were saying, "they are terrorists, so we don't talk to them". They were terrorists and they were trying something else. We didn't talk to them, so they remained terrorists.

 

swissinfo: Are we seeing the birth of a third intifada and the prospect of a new wave of suicide bombings in Israel?

 

A.H.: No. It won't be an intifada, because the [Palestinian] masses are too tired. It will be a guerrilla action like in Iraq.

The US shouldn't do anything. A strong "statement" like taht of the powerless EU doesn't mean anything to Israel. Israel is a country that uses force and military power to make their point. Statements of concern from countries and Unions aren't going to affect it.

All the US should do is say they are concerned about the situation and urge those involved to be careful and show restraint. israel buys arms from all over tghe world. They buy them from india, russia, US, etc...anyone who claims it's america's fault for arming them is a fool, especially considering France and the UK were the ones who gave Israel the materials and instructions on how to make an atomic bomb. It's Europe's fault Israel is a nuclear power. The only way Israel will heed to pressure is if someone threatens them with military force or economic sanctions, and I don't see anyone doing that right now.

If Israel has started a conflict that they can't win, then that's their problem

Personally, from a geo-politcal perspective, israel should be attacking the Syrian govt. The lebanese govt. doesn't yet have control over the whole country. It hasn't been that long since Syria's occupation ended. Syria is the real puppet-master here. They are the ones who have the msot control over Hezbollah. causing the Lebanese govt. to collapse will only set the country back, and will in the end, give more power and control to groups like Hezbollah. I don't think that's in Israel or the region's best interest.

I'm honestly not sure if 1/5 of the american population even knows what the holecaust was other then something that happened during world war 2.

Considering there are more Jews living in the US than there are in Israel, I'm pretty sure that Americans know what the holocaust was. The Jewish lobby in the US is immensley powerful, don't think that they don't make sure everyone knows what happened ot the Jews.

Edited by Illuminati - 14-Jul-2006 at 00:12

yea sure Israel has the right to defend itself by occupying whole country for the sake of 2 soldiers.

Originally posted by Sparten Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.

I hope you were being sarcastic?
    

The Law of the Pimp my friend,the Law of the Pimp.

Edited by Spartakus - 14-Jul-2006 at 05:49

Sad, but true.

Originally posted by Sparten Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.

best line in the whole thread.

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon Israel is not just fighting the Hezbollah. They are probably fighting Syrians, and Iranians there also. Just heard on the news that the Israeli forces encounted missle attacks from Iranian gunmen. THis is turning into an even "BIGGER" international conflict, and i believe it justifies Israel's case to defend herself.

Probably? Hezbi are  iranian puppets this is an indirect war, nothing hezbi does happens without a nod by Iran or Syria. Though i think all of these actors undersestimated Isreals reaction.

anyway i think isreal is trying to win back the initiative it seems to be loosing in the gaza alleys.

Originally posted by malizai_ Well said Sparten.   The poor americans, they dont understand y arabs and moslems hate them. aaaaahh....   Well it might just be because they are the fist in the israeli glove. US, the lackeys or coolies of israel, veto again. It reinforces spartens view, that he is correct to hold, based on the profane observations he makes.   U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel   "The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained."   "Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict."   Then the americans have the audacity to tell the rest of the world they dont understand why they are so hated in that part of the world. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_israel_gaza_6   USA is the tool of oppression in the ME and it shamelessly knows it.

Edited by pikeshot1600 - 14-Jul-2006 at 09:07