Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
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Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
Posted By: Mila
Subject: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 09:50
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There's not really much to say about the most recent incursion into
Lebanon, I'm sure no one's views of the conflict are going to change. However... there is one curious thing about all this that I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on. This is from a CNN report, but the quote appeared in many other stories, from Ehud Olmert: "This morning there was an attack on civilians and soldiers in the north. At this moment there are Israeli security forces operating inside Lebanon," Olmert told reporters. "The government will
convene this evening for a special cabinet meeting. I want to make
clear that the events this morning are not a terror attack but an
operation of a sovereign state without any reason or provocation." Did they really just say a Hezbollah attack wasn't a terrorist attack? You should have said, "I want to make up that..." How can they just completely change their rhetoric to suit their own needs in this way, and the world doesn't blink? ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 09:55
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Responding to the most recent incident along the Israel-Lebanon border, Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said in a statement: "The State of Israel sees itself free to use all measures that it finds it needs and the (Israeli Forces) have been given orders in that direction. "If
the soldiers are not returned we will turn Lebanon's clock back 20
years," Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Dan Halutz to Israeli
Channel 10. --------------------- --------------------- Argh... why even threaten such barbarity, much less actually carry
it out? I'd remind Israel that "destruction not warranted to accomplish
military objectives" is a serious war crime. ------------- |
Posted By: xristar
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 11:20
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An invasion of Israel in Lebanon can't be considered an 'act of war' against Syria (by the Syrians)?
Israel played its cards foolishly. Attacking the Palestinians is stupid, because the Palestinians are tough, and can hold a lot of bombardement. The kidnappers also are ruthless, I doubt they mind of the destruction they bring to their people. Also, Israel is seriously damaging its image to the world community, and also will have to stop at some point under the heavy international pressure.
It would be easier if Israel had liberated the missing soldiers with negotiations or with a successful special forces' operation. ------------- 
Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 17:46
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Is it not obvious that the kernel of this ongoing problem is the Syrian support of Hamas and of Hezbollah (yes money comes from Iran) both of which are sheltered in Damascus?
Xristar, Israel has not invaded Syria (not yet). A resolution to the problem will not be realized before Syrian support for these outlaw groups is terminated.
Now how does one suppose that might be attained?
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Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 17:49
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By sacrificing everything you stand for and doing to them exactly what
you claim to be standing up against, only using a powerful and
well-equipped army to do so. Refer to their victims, which always
outnumber your by the thousands, as collateral damage and go on living
a good life that is only intermittantly interrupted by terrorism while
the lives of millions of others are controlled, every moment of every
day, by your actions.
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Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:01
Israeli officials have threatened to assassinate the leaders of Hamas. The leaders of Hezbollah need to know they are on the same list. There is not a doubt that Mossad could accomplish that a la "Munich." If those people, why not the isolated, resourceless Assad family enterprise in Damascus.
Invasion and military regime change not necessarily needed. Surely the eventuality, and occasion, have been discussed in Israel (and discussed with others as well).
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Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:02
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Israel had this policy since the times I opened by eyes on this troubled world. I'm sure many still remember the examples of Israel attacking Jordans airports and civilian structure when Palestinians attack from there. The idea is simple. Instead of Israel trying to punish and follow those attackers beyond the border, they will just punish the host nation so it will react in the desired direction and kick out the Palestinians (I didnt say the armed resistance because what is it except simple Palestinians with simple weapons?).
Israel is following the same policy. Destroy bridges so the kidnappers will not escape (give me a break here too, as if they need a 6-wheels truck to move around).
Israel policy of assassination and arresting in hundreds without court day did not stop and they expect no retaliation in response? Only Israel out of the whole developed world, where you can arrest someone on "hajz Idari" or procedure detention for up to 12 months and release the person later without any accusation or court due. And only in Israel out of the developed world where physical systematic torture is conducted under described procedures.
Israel can bomb the bridges, houses, factories and they might get some good feedback in the shortrun, but out of those 50 killed Palestinian civilians, how many of them will come back when they grow up to revenge for their entirely wiped out families, just like the girl Huda Ghaliya.
javascript:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/06/09/world/10mideast.1.ready.html%27, %2710mideast_1_ready%27, %27width=670,height=480,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29">  ------------- D.J. Kaufman Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk. |
Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:09
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If a nation hosts groups that attack Israel, regardless of the reason, Israel is completely justified in attacking that host nation if they don't kick out and drop support for those groups. There's no international law that says Israel can't attack Syria if it is proven (which it has been) that Syria aids and supports Hezbollah and other groups bent on Israel's destruction. But, every step should be taken to make sure no innocent civilians are harmed. Attacks should be directed towards military and government installations. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:12
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cok gec:
Why don't the Arab states, especially the oil-wealthy states, provide for their Palestinian bretheren? It is not as though Saudi Arabia is overpopulated. You import labor for the oil industry.
Gee, isn't it convenient to keep a downtrodden Palestinian population in shameful conditions so attention can remain focused on Israel?
If you have not realized in SIXTY YEARS that you will not win the struggle, you have institutionalized the concept of Arabs as losers. Reverse course: make Arabs winners! Use the capital and modernization to assist and uplift the Palestinians rather than consign them to the status of pawns in a game neither Arab states nor Palestinians are capable of winning.
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Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:14
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Remember the girl who blew herself up at a cafe owned by Arabs and Jews
in Haifa? She attacked the idea of tolerance in Haifa, which is a
fairly peaceful, mixed city by Israeli standards. The "Jews only"
apartments, roads, shops, businesses, etc... aren't common in Haifa.
Anyhow, that's the first terrorist I felt badly for - half her family
wiped out the year before, and she went through such depression, was on
medication, all of that. It was just the most clear cause-and-effect
example to me, I felt so bad for her. They just don't get a break. I've said before, in 1994 if someone had given me a bomb and said go to Belgrade, I'd have done it. It's only when you have peace, or any small hope for a better life, that you start to value life, peace, etc. I know exactly how they feel and the hardest thing, the HARDEST thing: Is to know that in Israeli cities life is normal. There's no curfews that go on for an average of 86 days, no beatings, no random searches, no checkpoints, no misery. They're contented to enjoy their lives knowing you're in a cage, in misery. It makes a hatred for Israel that I cannot even put into words, because I know how it feels. When NATO bombed Belgrade, and they were crying on the TV - I threw up, I felt so sick to my stomach. I just wanted to... rub their noses in what they allowed for more than 1,000 days to us, while they watched their soap operas, and went to their cafes, and had their birthdays and weddings. That is the aspect of it that allows you to attack civilians. That is when they too become, in your mind, part of the oppression. And then you can do anything. And the Palestinians will never get past this point until Israel stops treating them like dogs and they have a reasonable hope of any sort of future. ------------- |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:17
Having posted my previous comment, I am afraid the luxury of "no collateral damage" is illusory. The purpose of military force is to punish one's enemy; to damage their lives and to make them hurt. That is the only alternative to bending over.
Say what you want, but civilian casualties will always result. Hamas and Hezbollah and some Arab governments are to blame. Blame it on them!
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Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:20
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Or just declare war and conquer Israel. I see two choices. Provide adequate aid to the Palestinians or conquer Israel |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:44
| Israel is surrounded by enemies at all sides. To me its like Israel is up against the wall with no other options but to fight back. |
Posted By: Aydin
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 00:35
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Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Israeli right wingers, Hezbollah, Christian Zionists, Syrian regime, and the Islamic Republic of Iran must be all delighted now. They have been hoping for a confrontation where they could gain the upper hand in the conflict. The sad reality is that the civilians on both sides are the ones who must pay the price for this latest episode of bloodshed. Yet again, murderers like Sheikh Nasrellah, Netanyahu, Khaled Mashal, etc are all benefitting from the situation as their power base grows and people flock to them because of their dire situation. The sad reality of the region is that people will never learn and this will continue for generations to come and frankly every single one of them probably deserves it. ------------- |
Posted By: Aydin
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 01:29
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Israel attacks Lebanon By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago BEIRUT, Lebanon - Israel widened its offensive against Hezbollah guerrillas on Thursday, targeting Beirut's international airport and blasting southern Lebanon for a second day, police and airport officials said. Twenty-two civilians were reported killed in the south, local media said. ADVERTISEMENT Warplanes struck the runways of the country's only international airport early Thursday during Israel's ongoing air and sea assault against Lebanon, which begun a day earlier after Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers. The airport was later closed, forcing flights to be diverted to nearby Cyprus, officials said. Israel's Army Radio reported the object of the attack was to shut down air traffic in and out of the Lebanese capital. The airport is located in Beirut's southern suburbs, which are controlled by Hezbollah. Meanwhile, Israeli aircraft and artillery continued attacking targets in southern Lebanon overnight, police reported. Leading TV station LBC said at least 22 civilians were killed in the attacks, including a family of 12 in the village of Dweir. ------------- |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 01:32
if you dont know yet. there are millions of Palestinians in Arab countries, many of them do hold the citizenship of those countries.
if you are suggesting Arab countries take all Palestinians and leave the land to the Israelis just because Arabs has more land then you are making no sense at all, wouldn't it be easier to provide the Israelis lands in Europe and the US, after all the holocaust took place in Europe.
why would Palestinians give up their lands and rights to the invader israelis? because Israel is strong?
well get this, through history we learned that things CHANGE, the weak can get stronger and the strong can get weaker.
and Palestinians did NOT lose the struggle, its the Zionist nation which shown failure to succeed in the last 60 years, Palestinians with less than 1% of Israeli's military strength managed to survive and continue struggling.
Israel with all this strength, 6 million in population having military strength as countries 10 times its size and still not able to control the tiny Gaza strip is considered a Failure.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 02:51
Israel does not have the capability to "invade" Syria. They can barely hold on to the Golan, and they have many advantages there that they would not in Syria proper, i.e Interior lines, secure Flanks and LOC's. They don't really have the capability to take Lebanon and hold it either. Israels has little by the way of military capability, except for what it does best, a short sharp war. Our old friend Moshe knew that, which is why he was against the whole Sanai occupation (he felt it was untenable).
As for the Israels assualt into the Leb? A whole division? Thats serious. And they are getting themselves into the qauigmire, again. Not to mention that in a war all Israeli stategic targets are within artillery range. If we see a full blown war, the IDF has lost the element of surprise (which was so crucial in 1967) and they no longer have the buffer territories anymore, which they did in 1973.
Stupid, pig headed really.
"Whom the gods would destroy, they would first make proud."
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 03:00
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Israel is so obnoxious. Why is post cold war US policy still tied to this country? It looks bad for PR, its expensive, and the Israel lobby is too powerful in congress. When Israel attacks Lebanon (or whatever) it is seen as the US doing so (maybe it is) but having Israel for an ally is like having a really expensive Jewish American Princess girlfreind. All expense and no benefits. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 06:03
thats debatable and maybe true for any long term urban potential of the conflict. Whats not debatable is isreal's capabilty to level lebanon and syria while they're at it, who say's they have to hold anything? The attack on its army (if within its own territory) is an act of agression on part of Hezbollah and unfortunatly (by association only) lebanon . They incorporated them into their own government, more for political expedinacy than any true alliance. I would assume that most in lebanon want such syrian puppets out of politics. the reality is lebanon cannot disarm hezbollah without going into civil war. These guys are one of the best armed groups in the country and probably one of the most powerful 'terrorist' groups left intact.. Isreal is concetrating it attcks in the shiite south but will be punishing lebanon for not disarming them. This iI think is where they may have over stepped their mark and make enemies with their enemies own opponents. |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 07:27
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I am really bored hearing the same story again and again. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 08:57
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Well it's too bad that a new war has taken place as there would be more blood, death and wounds and more people will suffer for no reason. All I would like to know is that where are the defenders of global peace and the true warriors against terrorism (The USA) now? Why don't they now interfer and stop a new war? Where is the human rights now and why the world is yet quite? When WTC was attacked it was quoted as an act of terrorism and now that Lebanon is attacked, isn't it too an act of terrorism? Or maybe America doesn't has gutz to stand against her father... ------------- 
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 09:03
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The latest regarding the Israel's blockade of Lebanon:
Link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5175160.stm - Click Here
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None of the parties involved are acting in a way to get their desired result 
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 11:39
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a new war
I liked that.
 Really,it's like a video tape repeating itself.Every year the same sh*t,and nobody does anything about it.The only difference is that the leading actor isn't Arafat anymore.Oh ,i forgot the statement of Cofee Anan.Now that is sth new!The UN took place!
 And clearly Hezbolah does not represent the official goverment of Lebanon,neither it is the official goverment of Lebanon.Therefore ,Israel invaded in foreign soil to hunt a para- military organization,without any legal authorization by the legal goverment of the invaded country,Lebanon .Therefore ,they are illegal ,and they are the first ones who commited the crime of war by bombarding non-military targets and the infrasctructure of a State which did nothing against Israelis in a period of peace. In conclusion,they are bloody terrorists.They hate Hitler ,and they became like him.Assholes. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 12:14
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To "level' Syria, the only way to do that will be atomic weapons, and they can't even consider that. The retaliation would be well....... Their military is not setup for such actions, its a brigade based force, with divisions only being activated in wartime if ever. The assault force doctrine assumes interior lines and a short sharp war, with little time for enemy counterattacks. To do the above, they will have to ocupy the land, not something they can do with the present mix of forces. They need at least a Corps level headquaters for that, and frankly the country is too small for that.
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Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 12:39
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Israel is now saying that Hezbollah is tryingt o transfer the nabbed soldiers to Iran.. Thus, Israel has drastically stepped up it's bombardment of Lebanon. It remains to be seen if this is true, but if Iran does come into possession of those soldiers...this whole conflict could change real fast.
Actually, it isn't illegal, and people should stop talking like they know something about international law. Lebanon harbors Hezbollah. That only is justificatioin for an Israeli assault. Israel has the right to attack them wherever they are if the host nation does not aid them. Lebanon is not helping Israel to get Hezbollah. Israel's incursion into Lebanon isn't illegal. Hezbollah launched the first attack in this conflict against Lebanon. You don't attack someone and not expect them to hit you back. |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 13:40
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Does anybody know how dangerous it is in Israel at the moment? Stupid question perhaps, but a girl from my house is there now on a studytrip and I'm a bit worried... ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Artaxiad
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 14:02
And a guy from my class is in Lebanon right now.  Anyway, I think that they shouldn't have attacked Lebanese targets such as the Beirut airport. This attack dealt a major blow to Lebanese economy, in which tourism plays a very important role. Lebanon shouldn't have been involved in the conflict. This should have only been Israel vs. Hezballah. It isn't Lebanon's fault that Hezballah has forced itself in the south. It is actually the only armed faction in the country since the civil war, and it has support from a lot of the Shiites of Lebanon. As Leonidas said, any attempt to remove Hezballah from the territory of Lebanon by the Lebanese government might start another civil war. If Lebanon doesn't assist Hezballah in kicking out Israel, Hezballah would also accuse the Lebanese government of double-standards as it was keen to "liberate" the country (from Syria) just last year. |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 14:09
Usually, I am a supporter of Israel, but with the incursion into Lebanese territory I think Israel is going too far. Just as Lebanon is taking its first steps as an independent state, Israel is doing its best to destabilise it and give another excuse to the Syrians to enter Lebanon. What I find even more amazing is that the USA is blaming Syria for the actions of Israel in violation of Lebanese soveregnity. I really think it is time for Uncle Sam to get a little bit tougher on its Israeli buddy. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:19
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I wish the international community would beat back both Israel and the
terrorists and man a buffer zone between them. Letting one side in a
conflict control every aspect of civilian life among the other is not a
way to achieve peace. Lebanese fighters lobbed more than 80 rocks into Israel overnight, two hit the city of Haifa - the farthest south they've ever reached. More than 50 Lebanese civilians have now been killed in attacks on public transportation infrastructure. Lebanon's airport and seaports have been destroyed and/or cut off from the outside world and 15,000 people so far have fled into Syria, mostly foreign nationals taking advantage of the only way out of Lebanon. Protestors in the Bekaa Valley (traditionally pro-Syrian) are demanding Syrian troops return to the country, and smaller protests with the same message are being held in Beirut - ironically in the norther, Lebanese-government controlled districts. ------------- |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:31
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A few pictures from Lebanon... http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com">  http://www.slibe.com"> 
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Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:39
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Oh, man, that is so horrible. Waht are those f**kers thinking over there? That they are making the world a better place? How can they do such things? -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 17:59
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Thank you for posting the images, Mila. I think what Israel is doing at the moment is a war of agression against the entire state of Lebanon in violation of its soveregnity. I hope the internationl community will be quick to condemn it, though I cannot see Bush taking any action.  ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 18:11
Today residents of Beirut are trying to buy gas, since Israel has already turned away three ships bringing fuel to the country. The downtown core of Beirut is empty, people aren't spending money because they don't know how long this is going to last - and the tourists are gone.  And, in the south, 10 members of a single family were burried en masse, most of them children and infants.  Israel, I hope you get your soldier back in ten pieces.  Sorry, but I do. It's just too much this time.------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 18:17
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Actually, it isn't illegal, and people should stop talking like they know something about international law. Lebanon harbors Hezbollah. That only is justificatioin for an Israeli assault. Israel has the right to attack them wherever they are if the host nation does not aid them. Lebanon is not helping Israel to get Hezbollah. Israel's incursion into Lebanon isn't illegal. Hezbollah launched the first attack in this conflict against Lebanon. You don't attack someone and not expect them to hit you back.
So,according to your master degree in International Law,Osama Bin Laden's attack on 9/11 was legal since the USA helped Israel in commiting war crimes in the Gaza territory against innocent Palestinian civilians ,in addition to harboring Israeli terrorists in American soil.
Israel has no right to invade in foreign soil in a period of peace and without any legal authorization from the official goverment ,voted by the citizens of the invaded country.Such an action can only be considered as an act of War by Israel and pure terrorism.The rest are naive excuses used by the Israelis and their allies in order to justify sth which cannot be justified ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Jay.
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 18:58
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Mila, why do you have a Lebanese flag as your avatar? Let's not start the same thing with the Danish cartoon incident where people started to put avatars like: Boycott Denmark, or whatever. ------------- Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:06
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I agree with EU's reaction to Israel's attack on Lebanon - it's excessive. I will add that it's in fact counterproductive. They blame the Lebanese government for Hezbollah's action, but of course even a moron would know that the Lebanese government has little, if not zero control, over the Hezbollah even though it is a "legitimate" political party supported mainly (if not only) by the Shia community, backed by Iran and Syria. Why is Israel punishing and destabilizing an anti-Syrian Lebanese regime? Actions like that would only antagonize the segment of the Lebanese population that wasn't even initially hostile to Israel in the first place, not to mention the entire Arab world. I do, however, believe that Israel has the right to retaliate against Hezbollah's cross-border raid and capture of Israeli soldiers, something that some forumers here seem to have overlooked. This is different from Israel's action on Gaza (which I oppose), even though Hezbollah's action may have been inspired by that. No country would just sit there and watch a foreign troop crossing its border, killing and kidnapping its soldiers. In doing that, the Hezbollah was essentially acting like a state itself. If Israel is to retaliate, it should do so against the Hezbollah and on Hezbollah territory. Not Lebanon. Not Beruit. In fact by acting like that, Israel is in fact falling into a trap dug by the Hezbollah - dragging the whole of Lebanon into conflict with Israel.
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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:07
Mila, I do not think that you are right this time. Two wrongs do not make a right. I hope the soldier surivives and is returned in one piece, at least this might placate the Israelis and avoid further bloodshed. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:12
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I agree, bg_turk. But I still had to say it.
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Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 20:04
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First and foremost, there are much more Christians in Lebanon, then in
Israel.And since Lebanon population is 30% Christian, and those
Christians with passion hate Israel, and i dont wana bring Muslims into
play, especially Shia in the south, because those Muslims from the
north, would be like lambs,considering they had to fight off agressions
for over 2 decades, and having part of your country occupied for 20 or
so years.And Georgie Boy is backing Israel, because they wouldnt dare
to do such act, but i hope Americans would get smarter in congress
senat elections of 2006, and not elect Republican. And not to mention Lebanon is highely secular country, and has Christian president, and all those Nightlife, so ''Islamic card'' wont work there.And yes Israel weaponry compared with Lebanon is joke, i mean, thats why they invaded.I seriously doubt they would bomb Egypt of over 70 million people into oblivion. ------------- Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 20:31
I thought they were the congress. ------------- |
Posted By: SearchAndDestroy
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 21:05
If Iran were to get involved in some way, this might be the excuse Bush needs to get in there.... ------------- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey 
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Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:18
They're already blaming Iran and Syria, both of whom - as vaguely guilty as they are - are immeasureably more involved than the Lebanese government. Bush said the world needs to support the "agents of peace" in the Middle East, like Israel.  I
can't believe anyone would think of any nation in this war as an agent
of peace, especially not the one with the most blood on its hands -
thousands of people's worth more than the others.It's starting to make me crazy, truly crazy. I can't even sleep at night. Why is the United States the only Western country that blindly supports Israel? It can't be related to the holocaust, or a fear of appearing anti-Semitic. That in itself bothers me as well; not being allowed to discuss it because suddenly you're anti-Semitic. I respect the holocaust, and it's victims - but there's no such thing as genetically passing down pain and suffering. Yariv from Tel Aviv may be Jewish, but if you ask me who's suffered more - him or Asma from Nablus, and I think the answer would probably be Asma. It's the same with Serbian nationalists and the Turks. Marko from Belgrade did NOT suffer under Turkish occupation. He's probably never even seen a f--king Turk so shut the f--k up about it. ------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:34
Wow, Mila you are real angry. But I totally agree with what you said above because I have experienced it myself. Many of the nationalist Bulgarians I have argued with talk about the Turks with such a passsion as if they have experienced everything yesterday, and not 200 years ago. There must be this Turk-hating gene passed from generation to generation, I cannot explain how otherwise one would hate Turks, despite not having met a single one of them. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:36
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It's just a defense mechanism so they don't have to consciously
acknowledge their own suckiness, they can just blame it on some
distant, abstract wrong.
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Posted By: Jay.
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:07
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The recent story on the war.
------------- Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:28
swissinfo: In view of the rising death toll over the past couple of days, would it be fair to say that we're heading towards a new period of bloody conflict in the region?
Arnold Hottinger: It depends very much on the Israelis, whether they will want to reactivate the Lebanese front or whether they will content themselves with a few blows and leave it at that.
swissinfo: But Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert appears to be under pressure to strike hard against both Hamas and Hezbollah?
A.H. Certainly. He has the army standing right behind him, and it's difficult to tell the army [to hold back] when it has suffered an enormous loss of prestige over the captured soldiers. I'm sure Olmert is under pressure from the army to do the maximum, but he must think of the political consequences.
swissinfo: Is the capture of the three Israeli soldiers likely to bring the Israelis to the negotiating table?
A.H.:
No, but there will be a new wave of hope among the Palestinians that
they can achieve something. They can see that the capture of the
soldiers has had a deep effect on the Israelis. 
Arnold Hottinger (swissinfo)
swissinfo: The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has appealed for intervention. What room is there for diplomacy now?
A.H.:
It's too late. First of all the Americans will always take the Israeli
side, and right now the Palestinians are convinced that the Americans
are no real partner. Second, the Europeans have no clear position what
they want to do and they have no force to impose anything anyway.
swissinfo: Did the failure of the international community to recognise a democratically elected Hamas given Israel a green light to go after them?
A.H.: It did certainly encourage Israel that nobody recognised Hamas, but it also forced Hamas into activism. If Hamas saw the possibility of a diplomatic way out, they would take it.
swissinfo: So it was a serious error of judgment by the international community not to recognise what is a democratically elected government?
A.H.: Too much was made of the word "terrorism". People were saying, "they are terrorists, so we don't talk to them". They were terrorists and they were trying something else. We didn't talk to them, so they remained terrorists.
swissinfo: Are we seeing the birth of a third intifada and the prospect of a new wave of suicide bombings in Israel?A.H.: No. It won't be an intifada, because the [Palestinian] masses are too tired. It will be a guerrilla action like in Iraq. ------------- |
Posted By: Gundamor
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:42
|
So what exactly do the U.S. do? I suppose a weak statement like the EU put out "concerned" would of been better then backing your allies. Whats even more sad is the fact people think the U.S. wants a war with Syria and Iran. This conflict is the last thing the U.S. wants and I guarentee you they are trying hard to stop Israel from taking this to far. My hope is that the U.S. doesnt have to step in. Because then I'll just get to hear more biased anti U.S. rhetric. "Blame it on the americans" should be the new world motto.
Maybe they should just let Israel do what it wants as this problem will never be solved as long as countries harbour terrorists or make dumb statements like Israel needs to be wiped off the map. So much focus on one side yet no one seems to care about the 100+ rockets getting lobbed into Israel and Israelis losing there lives. And how on earth would you think this has anything to do with the holecaust in anyways to mention it is beyond me. I'm honestly not sure if 1/5 of the american population even knows what the holecaust was other then something that happened during world war 2.
I wouldnt be to sure of that. 1/5 is probably good that no detailed information about the holecaust this out of 296 million people. I remember asking soldiers when i was in germany about it and alot less then 1/5 new what it was or refered to as "that thing" or had never heard of the word. It has also been removed from history lesson plans in some cities and states. However this lobby you talk about also pushes for teachers to find room for it in history plans. ------------- "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" |
Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:58
|
The US shouldn't do anything. A strong "statement" like taht of the powerless EU doesn't mean anything to Israel. Israel is a country that uses force and military power to make their point. Statements of concern from countries and Unions aren't going to affect it. All the US should do is say they are concerned about the situation and urge those involved to be careful and show restraint. israel buys arms from all over tghe world. They buy them from india, russia, US, etc...anyone who claims it's america's fault for arming them is a fool, especially considering France and the UK were the ones who gave Israel the materials and instructions on how to make an atomic bomb. It's Europe's fault Israel is a nuclear power. The only way Israel will heed to pressure is if someone threatens them with military force or economic sanctions, and I don't see anyone doing that right now. If Israel has started a conflict that they can't win, then that's their problem Personally, from a geo-politcal perspective, israel should be attacking the Syrian govt. The lebanese govt. doesn't yet have control over the whole country. It hasn't been that long since Syria's occupation ended. Syria is the real puppet-master here. They are the ones who have the msot control over Hezbollah. causing the Lebanese govt. to collapse will only set the country back, and will in the end, give more power and control to groups like Hezbollah. I don't think that's in Israel or the region's best interest.
Considering there are more Jews living in the US than there are in Israel, I'm pretty sure that Americans know what the holocaust was. The Jewish lobby in the US is immensley powerful, don't think that they don't make sure everyone knows what happened ot the Jews. |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 01:09
| Israel is not just fighting the Hezbollah. They are probably fighting Syrians, and Iranians there also. Just heard on the news that the Israeli forces encounted missle attacks from Iranian gunmen. THis is turning into an even "BIGGER" international conflict, and i believe it justifies Israel's case to defend herself. |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 03:04
|
yea sure Israel has the right to defend itself by occupying whole country for the sake of 2 soldiers. sure 2 soliders were kidnapped and Israel has the right to destroy all Lebanon and even nuke Beirut.
2 precious Israeli soldiers = all Lebanon
defend itself my ass.
-----------------
Israel grew too strong and powerful with strength put it in the top 10 strongest countries in the world and with a population size smaller than 99 countries in the world.
too strong not knowing to do with all these weapons and soliders and capability.
this country is preparing itself for wars since its birth, looking for excuses to show its strength.
by the look of their frustration its clear that this is a SHORT living system and it cannot keep maintaining this strategy on the long term. its a dying country.
-------------
Israel keep Occupying others lands , kill whoever it wants and later makes up excuses ( always that it thinks terrorist living or hiding there, and the truth children and women were killed).
if so then REMEMBER when the times comes and Israel becomes the weak one ( and it will be sooner or later), when one Jew makes a mistake and a whole city been occupied and families killed, REMEMBER they have the right to defend themselves ( Israeli way).
-------------
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 03:46
|
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.
------------- |
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 04:17
I hope you were being sarcastic? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 05:39
|
I was being perfectly straightforward. Its a harsh lesson, but one that all nations should learn.
------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 05:47
|
The Law of the Pimp my friend,the Law of the Pimp. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 06:56
|
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.
Well said, after all we are living a jungle world.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 07:09
|
Sad, but true.
------------- |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 07:48
|
Well said Sparten.
The poor americans, they dont understand y arabs and moslems hate them. aaaaahh....
Well it might just be because they are the fist in the israeli glove. US, the lackeys or coolies of israel, veto again. It reinforces spartens view, that he is correct to hold, based on the profane observations he makes.
U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel
"The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained."
"Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict."
Then the americans have the audacity to tell the rest of the world they dont understand why they are so hated in that part of the world.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_israel_gaza_6 - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_israel_gaza_6
 USA is the tool of oppression in the ME and it shamelessly knows it. ------------- |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:05
anyway i think isreal is trying to win back the initiative it seems to be loosing in the gaza alleys. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:36
So its 1982 all over again. Only difference is that this time there are no Christian puppets for the Israelis to use as auxilleires on the ground. They # - will have to do the pacifying themselves, something they don't even begin to have the forces for.
Hizbollah is seen standing up to and indeed through the rocket strikes even hurting israel.
The thank you notes in Olmert's # - office are from Damascus. And Tehran.
------------- |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:54
International politics is such a simple subject for you isn't it? Have you thought of applying to the Foreign Office? They could use your vast knowledge and observation skills.
|
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:00
|
Gentlemen and ladies, PLEASE note:
I want to remind everyone that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is BLACKLISTED.
As long as the discussion applies to military actions, and the roles of HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH (both of which are Syrian-Iranian stooges) I feel the issue is Israel-Iran; and by extension, Iran-US.
In that case, I think the discussion is valid. DON'T MAKE IT ISRAEL-PALESTINIAN, or someone is likely to lock the topic.
Thanks.
|
Posted By: docyabut
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:16
|
A question guys,
Did`nt bin laden on a tape the other day say to kill all the sh*tes .Hizbollah is suni ,and Hammas is sh*te or is it vice verus?
Its seem to be me that bin laden has started all this with the notion to bring Israel into it.
|
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 09:51
 dont over estimate him.
|
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 10:23
What the hezbi wanted from this, i honestly dont know nor do i know what iran/syria aims are either. Maybe its a Iran driven diversion or syrian-hamas support for gaza, either way my guess is that the aims were originally tactical not strategic. I dont think syria wants a war or Iran wants to fully play its hezbi card now. So saying this, the intiative is playing to israel advantage as they test the counter parties nerves (and balls to put it bluntly) and playing things at the tempo and intensity of their choosing. This isnt simply about terrirtory.
im sure the isrealis arent planning to rescue anyone with an armoured divison, im also sure their spec opps are already in lebanon and syria when everyone is watching their jets on CNN. I hold alot of respect for hezbi's fighting prowess, they wont be beaten with this nor do i think that is israels aim. I do feel you underestimate the Isrealis somewhat in your posts.
Olmert is making sure that he is seen as tough as sharon. This is his test. sharon would of done the same and he is making sure that hezbi understand that he is no different. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 10:29
Great argument Pike, i wouldnt expect nothing less from you.  ------------- |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:00
|
Well, if you "wouldnt expect nothing less." I imagine the F.O. won't be interested.
|
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:13
|
Leonidas:
Iran's enemy is not Israel per se, it is the United States. Hamas and Hezbollah do Iran's bidding because that is where the money comes from. If rocket attacks by these groups endanger Israeli safety, and Israeli soldiers are attacked, Israel responds. What would one expect?
Then, the fact that Geo Bush can't stop Israel's actions with a phone call makes it look like: (A) the US is the bad guy calling the shots; (B) the US is a tool of Israel. Either way, the US loses in the public relations arena. The boys in the funny hats high five each other having drawn attention away from their obfuscating nuclear activities and distracting the G-8 discussions. More difficult to do anything about them. Too many crises.
 Dead Lebanese Christians are scalps for Iranian mullahs. The Iranian gang is the proximate cause, and someone else takes all the heat. I can hear the laughter from here.The amazing thing to me, is that so many people on the AE forums buy into their game. That they have a hard time connecting dots. Syria, BTW is just the intermediary. As far as I know, Iranian blood money props up that train wreck as well.
Just my opinion though.
 |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:16
|
If rocket attacks by these groups endanger Israeli safety, and Israeli soldiers are attacked, Israel responds.
attacking civil targets is not just responding.
|
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:39
|
It's enough, already. If one country's "security" means the rest of the
Middle East must be brought to its knees and live on with a foot to its
neck, then the sick people who think that's okay don't deserve security
and should certainly never expect to get it. We're watching the same war that happened in 1978, the same war that happened in 1982... if the Syrians come back to Lebanon, it'll be a complete replay. I'm just wondering - since Israel is already targetting public transportation infrastructure (Madrid, London, Mumbai, Beirut?) how long it'll be until we see a repeat of 1996. Anyone remember the United Nations base, filled with women and children seeking refuge from earlier bombings, that Israel pounded? Roughly 100 people were slaughtered. That's not self defense, that's the effect of telling people they've been chosen by God to cleanse the land of "Arab dogs" and be the superior beings they are, from the Med to the Euphrates. That's facism. ------------- |
Posted By: SearchAndDestroy
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 11:52
|
It's kinda of funny that a few months ago peace almost seemed like a real possibility with Israel moving out of parts of Gaza and Soth of Lebenon I believe. Now all those areas they gave up are being used as bases against them. Thats exactly what some of the Israeli government wanted and now I don't see any progress happening. In order for peace to work it always takes two sides not one.
That being said, I'm still not siding with Israel, I just thought it was kind of ironic since everyone complains that Israel doesn't want peace yet they were willing to forcibly kick people out of their own territory to make some headway. And it was a start, was... ------------- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
|
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 12:02
|
There are dynamics at play most of the world doesn't know about.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews do not have to serve in the Israeli army and, over
the past 50 years, this has created a great resentment among other
Israelis. "We serve and die in the army to protect you, so you can have 10 kids, none of which have to serve, and populate settlements so we get to serve and die more?" Etc. It's a much more common, privately held sentiment that you might think. "End the occupation, for our sake!" as they say. Gaza never had the support of the Israeli public anyway, nor does the West Bank (though it has more). ------------- |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 13:19
It wasnt the FO that vetoed, it was mr Bolton. And stop trying to personalise the issue. So spare us the BS, since you r going to need to with justifications like the one given below.
Just like a wolf can not keep its teeth from bititng.
US should learn to keep its d*g on a leash and muzzled.
------------- |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 13:47
Israel doesnt want peace and never did.
the withdraw from Gaza was for two reasons, one the illegal settlers were high maintenance and their protection costed Israel alot, second reason was to have better and harsher control over Gaza and that by targeting any place they want without caring about their settlers getting attacks in close proximity.
Gaza is like a huge prison where Israel controls everything getting in and out and kill whoever it wants and destroy whatever it wants anytime.
and that what is happening.
----
south lebanon did not serve Israel and again it costed them alot.
--------
the real funny and ironic part is that many westerners think of Israel as a Peace seeking nation,
its Israel which occupy others land , its Israel which has the most advanced and organised military power in the region,
if it wants peace it should FIRST end its occupation and leave TOTALLY from the Arabic lands,
after doing that it should compensate its victims for the Crimes it committed against them for more than 50 years.
then we would think that its looking for peace.
its not and never wanted peace, all the problems are its own making, thanks to the US's blind support.
-------------
|
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:28
Sure, and at the same time should the entire Arab and Islamic world acknowledge the right of Israel and its people to exist. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:51
|
wow, two live-yet-captive-at-the-hands-of-terrorist Israeli soldiers' lives are not only worthy of a war on another nation without any attempt at negotiation, but also the collective punishment being reaped upon the Lebanese population through murder and the blockade and destruction of their infrastructure.
I would expect nothing less from the Nazis *cough* Zionists in Tel-Aviv. Hitler himself could not have hoped for an easier pretence.
It would be like the UK declaring war on the Republic of Ireland for IRA Sin-Fein's actions, though the UK, being a civilised nation unlike Israel, would never commit such a blatant atrocity, even less, get away with it.
------------- |
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 15:12
|
By doing this, Israel justifies all Palestinian
terrorism. Afterall, Palestinian militant groups were bombing public
places for their "security" as well. ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 15:14
|
The constant turmoil in the middle east won't have a solution any time soon. Too many players to muddy the waters. Though many of us have grown weary of the many chapters in the Israeli-Lebanese conflicts over the decades, its just as difficult to put a handle on it now as it ever had been. More tit for tat. In the mean time lives are being reshuffled and terminated.
Both sides are correct in their reasons for protecting their borders. Yet neither respects the borders of eachother. ------------- |
Posted By: Loknar
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 15:49
|
What I can say is this.the Palestinians need to accept a new boundary for their nation. Forget ever about getting the 1948 or pre 1967 borders, it isnt going to happen (and it shouldnt). The Palestinians need a nation, a home and a responsible government (no terrorist scum). IF they cant accept this then there is no real chance for peace. Of course Israels colonies or settlements in the West Bank doesnt help. Militarily. This isnt 1967 or 1972. This is 2006. The Israeli military is one of the best trained and one of the most technologically advanced in the world. They have hundreds of thousands of reserves (if not millions) that can be called to active duty. Their air force is capable of conducting thousands of sorties in a single day (I think it even exceeds Americas). There is no chance for nations like Syria, Jordan or Egypt to attack Israel successfully, the Israeli military is infact that far ahead of them. Now then about the Palestinianswhose fault is it for this mess they are in? Why did they attack Israel in 1948? In 1948, they got their fair portion of the land. Israel got 60% but more than half was desert (the Negev) and there was a large Arab minority living in Israels borders. If the Palestinians accepted the land division then there would be a Palestinian nation today. And the idea that the Jews are invadersLets call it like it is. The Arabs are also invaders. The Jews have been there for over 2000 years (though a vast majority of them left in 70AD). How do the Arabs have more of a claim to the land than the Jews? |
Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 16:54
Israel can't be defeated because of England and France. Who in the Middle East would dare invade them? The cost would be too high, even if the invasion was successful. I suggest you educate yourself on the issue. France and Britian are to blame more than anyone for Israel's power over the rest of the region. Shall I remind you that Britian gave Israel plutonium to make atomic weapons with? http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/nuke.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4515586.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm |
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 18:07
|
How do you expect Palestinians to elect responsible
leaders when they're living in exile? As Americans, we can't pick a
responsible leader, and our lives are very stable. Stop expecting a group of people who live in hell to act like angels. ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 18:42
^ here here.
completely true, but to say the US, if it has the will to, can't curb ISraeli melevolance is hogwash. Truth is, Israel is the cornerstone of American foreign policy in the ME (thanks to its lobbies) and as such has free reign to do as it pleases to whomever int he region. This statement is backed by recent Harvard research on the subject, the bottom line of which was that ISrael has an unhealthy influence over US policy, something that was blatantly obvious to anyone with any common sense before anyway. ------------- |
Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 19:12
Agreed. The Jewish lobby in the US is disturbingly powerful. No lobby, no matter their politcal platform, should be that powerful. Bush, will have to act sooner or later. He si already feuding with Rice. Rice thinks Israel has gone too far, and Bush obviously believes they have the right to defend themselves. Oil his $77/barrel USD, and Bush will have to eventually act if the price of oil continues to rise. I was also watching the news and it appears there will undoubtedly be a regional war. Hamas and the Palestinians are in love with Hezbollah right now. We could see start seeing unprecedented cooperation between the Arab militant groups. I think the most important thing in this whole issue is that the US is not drawn into the conflict. I have no faith in the Bush administration, and I am concerned he'll get the US invovled directly. Because if that happens, then no one in the world will have the power to reign in israel is things get too out of control |
Posted By: docyabut
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 19:39
| America supports democracy,Israel is a democracy. If people want to vote for a certain groups that only has one belief then thats want one gets. I really can see how hard it is for a nation wheater it be a the iraqie, israel or a future palistine state to get to a democracy thats for all of its people, when it would be be for only for one group of people.Its like the Israeli minsiter said to the lebaon misinter at the UN I know you`d be sitting right next to me in support aganist the attack on us and in your quest for your own democracy.Isreal as a state was attacked by a group and it has a right to defend itself. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:16
 Another example of "selective comment" outside of context.I am becoming more convinced that AE is as futile an exercise as the UN.
What pisses you guys off more than anything is you know I am right.
|
Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:21
|
and about the US veto'ng a UN resolution.... what about the UN resolution that called for Israeli withdrawal from lebanon and in return ordered lebanon to secure the Israeli-Lebanon border and stop hezbollah from attacking israel? How can anyone demand a new UN resolution when Israel is the only one abiding by the last resolution? Those kind of one-sided and arrogant demands are one of the reasons the UN doesn't have much legitimacy. If you believe in the power of the UN then stand by previous resolutions and demand the disarmament of Hezbollah and demand Lebanon secure it's own borders. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:23
As we have seen more than enough times, UN resolutions are suitable for wrapping fish.
No one pays the slightest attention to them.
|
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 20:35
Sure it is. Got your attention didn't it?
It better get Hamas's and Hezbollah's attention as well. Iran is not the only entity on Earth that can unleash things. The oozing canker that is Iran is what is bringing about the current problem, and, only when Palestinians and Lebanese realize that, will they realize that their "heros" are nothing but gang bangers living off foreign blood money. Maybe they will get the hint; maybe not.
A lot of people are really getting bored with this. Ultimately, who else cares anymore? The UN?
|
Posted By: Gundamor
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 21:00
|
Pike, You talk like you work for the Center of Stratgic and International Affairs in Washington. You definitaly dont have the alarmist attitude and look at the big picture hah. Do you think Iran will be nuclear capable by the end of the year? ------------- "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 21:10
Who knows? Having a nuke and delivering it are different.
My thinking is having A nuke just makes you a target. The regime in Iran is just trying all delaying tactics to try to present the West (US) and neighboring states with the fait accompli of their having some capability. They do a good job of turning US support for Israel into a PR triumph.
Jews, as we know, have historically been convenient targets. It was easier of course when they could not shoot back. Different now.
|
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 00:28
|
Basically Hezbollah started poking its stick in the hornets, nest..and the hornets responded!!
|
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 00:36
|
Ya but they stung the wrong person, and way too
many times. They are weakening a government who would love to have
Hezbollah out of their country, but cannot do so on their own because of the political
backlash it would cause (potential civil war). They want to spread
democracy on behalf of the U.S., and they are bombing the Middle East's
oldest democracy....
------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:14
Arab and Islamic countries DO acknowledge Israel right to exist ( although i think it doesnt have the right to exists as it does now).
so they do acknowledge that long time now.
all the drama you hear in the news is about Israel occupation and humiliation of Arabs in the occupied land.
Israel not only occupy those lands but also controls EVERYTHING, from drinking water to electricity to trad to borders, that's full occupation .
any country does what Israel does should expect naturally a resistance groups, which Israel will call terrorist just because they are resisting the occupation.
again the ball is in the Israeli field, and they don't want peace.
in 1948 Arabs proposed a ONE democratic nation with all Jews, Christian and Muslims of Palestine having full equal rights. Israel refused this proposal.
few years ago Saudi Arabia proposed a peace plan that Israel withdraw from the Arab lands and Arab league will have full normal relation with Israel and end the boycott to their products and all will live in peace.
again Israel refused the peace proposal.
Israel think of itself as the strongest nation and think of itself as the only one to decided whatever it wants for its benefit only.
this zionist entity isn't interested in peace whatsoever.
-------------
|
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:29
|
Loknar you said this:
What I can say is this.the Palestinians need to accept a new boundary for their nation. Forget ever about getting the 1948 or pre 1967 borders, it isnt going to happen (and it shouldnt).
And this:
Now then about the Palestinianswhose fault is it for this mess they are in? Why did they attack Israel in 1948? In 1948, they got their fair portion of the land. Israel got 60% but more than half was desert (the Negev) and there was a large Arab minority living in Israels borders. If the Palestinians accepted the land division then there would be a Palestinian nation today. If I am not wrong, you are trying to say that what happened to palestinians should be forgetten, but what palestinians did should be remembered. I cannot follow your logic.
|
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:36
|
I think, that when one country(in this case - Lebanon) cannot stop the
terroristic actions of the islamic groups, located in her territory,
against her neighbours, then that is not a country, but only an area. And because of that Israel have the right to crush the enemy located in that area with all possible millitary actions. ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:36
|
Isreal as a state was attacked by a group and it has a right to defend itself.
There is a difference between attacking and defending . Israel is attaking,not defending .
|
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:48
|
That is`nt an israely invasion in "the country of Lebanon", but an offensive against the area where are located the enemy forces.
------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 04:53
|
On whose f**king authority are Israelis attacking in a foreign soil?On whose f**king authority are Israelis bombarding the infrastructure of a foreign nation ? Israel does not own Lebanon.Lebanon is an independent State ,got it? |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:07
If Israel don`t do nothing, the islamic groups will attack his territory everyday, and will kill jews everyday. Got it? And because of that, they must be crushed with all possible ways, even they are located on the moon! ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:12
|
Islamic groups are not the official goverment of Lebanon,are they? ARE THEY? |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 05:13
|
And if Lebanon is "independent state", i can say that the terrorist islamic groups are independent too. They have`nt a ruler, except their religious leaders. If you let him, they also will use your home to attack Israel.
------------- |