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Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:02 |
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Leonidas
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 08:42 |
bah, just a comando raid
Edited by Leonidas - 20-Aug-2006 at 08:43
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malizai_
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Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 17:37 |
"We had no independent means to verify...what has happened," envoy Terje Roed-Larsen told Lebanon's LBC television. "But if what has been reported is correct, it is of course a clear violation of the cease-fire."
That is terrible news, looks like US is going to invade Israel because it violated the resolution.
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ok ge
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 13:30 |
Originally posted by docyabut
CNN or FOX news, I forgot which. It showed video of Arab and Jewism familes living together in the bomb shelters. |
CNN and Fox are not so different from each others. Unless you are not concern about diversifying your view of the conflict to more than one side.
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D.J. Kaufman
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docyabut
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 12:47 |
CNN or FOX news, I forgot which. It showed video of Arab and Jewism familes living together in the bomb shelters.
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malizai_
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 06:52 |
Originally posted by docyabut
It was shown on our media Arabs and Jews living in the same bomb shelters. Of course they were all argueing who was wrong in this war :) |
What media were u watching?
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malizai_
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 06:51 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
That both the Israelis and their Palestinian enemies, and especially Hezbollah, are used by the Bush administration and its Islamic enemies (Iran, Syria) to fight a substitute war, to the expense of both the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population, is not exactly the news of the day. |
Please Kom. Hezbullah have enough motivation to fight a war with Israel without needing any more from Iran or Syria. Claiming Iran or Syria got Hezbullah to fight Israel to get at america is just demonising them.
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Valid point.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 01:47 |
That both the Israelis and their Palestinian enemies, and especially Hezbollah, are used by the Bush administration and its Islamic enemies (Iran, Syria) to fight a substitute war, to the expense of both the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population, is not exactly the news of the day. |
Please Kom. Hezbullah have enough motivation to fight a war with Israel without needing any more from Iran or Syria. Claiming Iran or Syria got Hezbullah to fight Israel to get at america is just demonising them.
Originally posted by Sparten
I can understand erkut's posts, being an Israeli and having recently been in a war, means that objectivity goes out of the window. That said, I cannot even begin to comprehend the motivation behind the post of some 'supporters" of Israel, even when presented with the facts. |
Unless I'm completely mistaken. Erkut is a turk.
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 00:35 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by Sparten
Katyusha. Surprised you do not know more about them. The Wehrmacht called them, "Stalins's Organs".
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I'm not interested in what kinds of weapons people use, but in why they do it. |
Thats just the point, Katyusha's are a phycological weapon first. The rockets make a god awful sound as they come in, this sacred the hell out of Wehrmacht soldiers, and they had the same effect here. The Katyusha's killed what, 40 people, a suicide bomber who gets lucky can kill just as many, but the threat of the rockets sent a million israelis under ground.
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 17:10 |
Originally posted by docyabut
It was shown on our media Arabs and Jews living in the same bomb shelters. Of course they were all argueing who was wrong in this war :) |
Looks like you had only half of the real picture.
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D.J. Kaufman
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docyabut
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:35 |
It was shown on our media Arabs and Jews living in the same bomb shelters. Of course they were all argueing who was wrong in this war :)
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:25 |
Originally posted by malizai_
I also heard a report about the lack of air raid shelters for the arab israeli citizens,or is that propoganda. Can any one confirm this.
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Yes, it is true. It should not be a surprising thing. This is a minor issue to what Israeli Arabs see as second class citizens. Anyhow, it is not a propoganda. Many news site confirmed that from Aljazeera to even the Haaretz Israeli newspaper itself confirmed it:
The number of Arabs killed by Katyusha s is high, and not only because they make up half of the Galilee's population. There are not enough shelters in the Arab communities, but in addition many villagers seem to take a fatalistic approach. |
There is no public bomb shelter in any of the Arab communities. Many residents stand in stairwells or cling to the walls during the air-raids. The Asadi family of Dir Assad goes into their reinforced room or the southern-facing stairwell. |
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D.J. Kaufman
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docyabut
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:23 |
US and Israel must have known that Iran had been supplying Hezbola with rockets and knew a attack would come soon. I can see now why hezbola claims victory even though they were the frist to attack, to try and stand up to Israel with their new weapons, however it sure was a waste of life. I think some are right, it will happen again when they resupplied.
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:14 |
Originally posted by R_AK47
You don't need to apologize erkut for the war or the Lebanese deaths. |
Truly disgusting to tell someone not to apologize for Lebanese deaths. Lebanese deaths is mostly civilian deaths (the vast majority). Not to feel sorry and apologize for those Lebanese killed is like considering them an inferior race.
Originally posted by docyabut
Ok so why did the Palestinians kidnapped and firer rockets into Israel weeks earlier if this was not all planned out already ?
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I think we are not on the same page. I'm talking about Hezbollah and you switched to Palestinian resistance firing rockets and kidnapping the Israeli soldier? Are you hinting that it is all planned and a consiperacy was between Palestinians and Hezbollah? Do you know Israel kindnapped civilian Gazans a doctor and his brother (actually there is always detention by IDF for all reasons) before the Israeli soldier was kidnapped? Did the Palestinians and Hezbollah cooperated too to have those Gazans kidnapped? Non-sense!
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D.J. Kaufman
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 16:10 |
Originally posted by erkut
So why did israel invade Lebnan in 1982? Becouse terorists were killing jews(İsraels London Ambasador for ex.) |
Do not mix everything to a summed group of terrorist north, south, west of Israel. If you have read about the conflict, you will know that Israel invaded Lebanon to kick out the PLO out of Lebanon. They succeeded, so why do they need to stay occuping south of Lebanon if the PLO was kicked out? If you read the New York Times article of Sabrina Tavernisa, you will be surprised that actually the Shiite welcomed first the Israelis to kick out the PLO because they grew tired of the conflict, but Israel decided to occupy the south with tons of camps that prisons civilians with all physical torture and abuses (ex. Al Khiam infamous camp). It look to me Israel is good at making only enemies.
Originally posted by erkut
So they start a war against Lebnan Cristians to take control of the land. Becouse they thougt if they got controll of Lebnan they could attack to İsrael.(But they destroyed the Lebnan and killed too many peopels, and they seperated the Lebnan) |
Actually Lebanon civil war didn't start with the Palestinians. It is a very complex civil war that started with Leftist and Rightist dispute on Kamil Shamoun proposal to change the constitution to allow for re-election of the Maronite president. Palestinians came later in the conflict and of course with specific agenda to help one side in the conflict. Do you even know that Syria invaded Lebanon in 1976 to support the Christian Phallange militia and fought against the Palestinians especially in Tyre (Sidon)?
Anyhow, We are here to discuss about Hezbollah-Israel conflict. If you want to run a history of Israel, we can stretch it to the Canaanite times. Stay focus please.
Originally posted by erkut
And in 1948 both communuty had right to crate their states.(by the observation of UN) |
I don't think anyone here disputed allowing Jewish living in Palestine. There has been always jews living in Palestine. The troubles only started when Jewish terrorist groups such as the Haganah made it clear they are looking to establish an Israeli state by force over all the Palestinians. I think it is completely natural for a group that will be neglected and forced to be under a Jewish state despite they formed the majority to fight back for their rights. Israel wanted a jewish majority and that is why they declared the state of Israel, expected Arabs intervention to ensure the rights of the Arab majority, took the chance and committed massacres and cleaned whole villages, hebce 700,000 Palestinians out as refugees. Of course they wont be back to their homes, because that will defeat the purpose of a Jewish majority in Israel. For those who remained inside Israel, till now, they are second class citizens. That is a fact, not an assumption.
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D.J. Kaufman
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bg_turk
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 14:37 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
That's really shocking ! Not.
That both the Israelis and their Palestinian enemies, and especially Hezbollah, are used by the Bush administration and its Islamic enemies (Iran, Syria) to fight a substitute war, to the expense of both the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population, is not exactly the news of the day.
I have the slight suspicion that the Iranian government wasn't kept in the dark by Hezbollah leaders about their intentions either.
Increasing demands for the delivery of katushjah ( or what ever they're called) rockets by the Hezbollah, should have given their allies a clue what was going to happen. |
Of course it is not shocking. It is obvious that there are close links between Israel and USA. But it must have come as a shock to those naives who believed that Israel waged this invasion because of the two soldiers. The two soldiers were simply the pretext, not the reason. For more info: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm
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Komnenos
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 11:20 |
Originally posted by Sparten
Katyusha. Surprised you do not know more about them. The Wehrmacht called them, "Stalins's Organs".
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I'm not interested in what kinds of weapons people use, but in why they do it.
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 09:37 |
Katyusha. Surprised you do not know more about them. The Wehrmacht called them, "Stalins's Organs".
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Komnenos
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 09:24 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
there was an extensive article on the BBC as well. It appears that Israel got the green light for the invasion and closely coordinated its plans with the Bush administration even before the two soldiers were abducted.
As I said before, only naives would believe that this invasion was just because of two soldiers. Something much deeper lied behind it.
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That's really shocking ! Not.
That both the Israelis and their Palestinian enemies, and especially Hezbollah, are used by the Bush administration and its Islamic enemies (Iran, Syria) to fight a substitute war, to the expense of both the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population, is not exactly the news of the day.
I have the slight suspicion that the Iranian government wasn't kept in the dark by Hezbollah leaders about their intentions either.
Increasing demands for the delivery of katushjah ( or what ever they're called) rockets by the Hezbollah, should have given their allies a clue what was going to happen.
Edited by Komnenos - 16-Aug-2006 at 09:24
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Leonidas
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Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 08:59 |
here is the original hersche article ( newyorker) and a interview from CNNwhile being wrong in many other ways, my hunch that this was a strategic initiave is pretty close to the logic in his claims, it makes sense to me.
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