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balochii
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Topic: Sanskrit and the people who spoke it? Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 12:08 |
i believe the aryan invasion theory is very real for pakistan, these floods in pakistan are giving us a chance to look at how the interior/village populations look in pakistan even in punjab and sindh, you may notice that these people look very mixed, many of them have dark skin but blondish hair and indo aryan facial features, they look very different from lets say people from Bengal or south india who's facial features are pretty different.
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PakistaniShield
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Posted: 02-Sep-2010 at 16:22 |
In the link below are images of Celtic Gods: http://www.spelcastor.org/gods.htm Perhaps they are also a form Shiva based on their common appearance??? Here are some Shamanic spiritual depictions: http://www.sequanicalendar.com/art.html Shamanism is a spirituality originated in North Eurasia. "hindu connection" anyone?
Edited by PakistaniShield - 02-Sep-2010 at 16:25
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 05:13 |
Originally posted by balochii
i believe the aryan invasion theory is very real for pakistan, these floods in pakistan are giving us a chance to look at how the interior/village populations look in pakistan even in punjab and sindh, you may notice that these people look very mixed, many of them have dark skin but blondish hair and indo aryan facial features, they look very different from lets say people from Bengal or south india who's facial features are pretty different. |
I have uploaded the photographs of a number of South Indians(Dravidians) in another tread "difference between Indians & Pakistanis" by chander gupta. What do they look like to you..? Aryan or Dravidian..?
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 05:29 |
Originally posted by PakistaniShield
In the link below are images of Celtic Gods: http://www.spelcastor.org/gods.htm
Perhaps they are also a form Shiva based on their common appearance???
Here are some Shamanic spiritual depictions: http://www.sequanicalendar.com/art.html
Shamanism is a spirituality originated in North Eurasia. "hindu connection" anyone?
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The Celtic seal in the site was dated back to 150CE and the Pashupati seal was dating back to 3000BC(1300-1500 years before the so called invasion). AIT/AMT claims Indo-Aryans came to Indus-Saraswati valley from 1700BC-1500BC. Celts are known to have migrated to europe also during the same period. Now the question is whether Pashupati was contributed to Indus-Saraswati people by Aryans or vice versa.Of which the answer is clear.
And i dont deny,even shamanism and animism may have Hindu connections.
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 07:41 |
Here are some famous bengalis Hussein Suhrawardy Former Prime minister of Pakistan Amartya sen a Nobel prize winner
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 07:48 |
Anoushka Ravishankar a musician(daughter of Ravishankar) Ravishankar the famous Musician Subhash Chandra Bose
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 07:49 |
What do these people look like aryans or dravidians..?
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Cryptic
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 10:40 |
Originally posted by PakistaniShield
Shamanism is a spirituality originated in North Eurasia. "hindu connection" anyone?
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I disagree,
Shamanism is the earliest religous expression of man and developed in all hunter / gatherer societies. Shamanism developed first in Africa and then was spread by people migrating to other parts of the world. Shamanism has remained longer in indigenous Siberians because as herders, they are closer to hunter gatherers than people with large scale agriculture.
As for Shamanism and Hinduism, Shamanism is clearly the older religion. Hindusim, however, has preserved far more of shamanism than Islam or Christianity.
Edited by Cryptic - 03-Sep-2010 at 10:43
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PakistaniShield
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 19:58 |
Just about any form of animal/nature worship weather native american or south american or Shamanic must have "hindu" roots. even though "hinduism" is not a religion itself but a series of different cults/religions. It was the Brits who termed them as "one"
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PakistaniShield
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 20:01 |
Originally posted by Cryptic
Shamanism is the earliest religous expression of man and developed in all hunter / gatherer societies. Shamanism developed first in Africa and then was spread by people migrating to other parts of the world. Shamanism has remained longer in indigenous Siberians because as herders, they are closer to hunter gatherers than people with large scale agriculture.
As for Shamanism and Hinduism, Shamanism is clearly the older religion. Hindusim, however, has preserved far more of shamanism than Islam or Christianity. |
I don't think there is such thing as "oldest religion" since human beings had various tribal practices and religions going back thousands of years. It can be said that Shamanism is one of the oldest surviving spiritualities
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Cryptic
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Posted: 03-Sep-2010 at 23:02 |
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar
What do these people look like aryans or dravidians..? |
They look like they are racially caucasoids to me. If Aryan is a large ethnicity like slavic, I would say that the people are racially caucasoid and ethnically Aryan. To my knowledge, with the exception of some asiatic tribal peoples and perhaps a few australoids, Bengalis are caucasoids and resemble most Indians and most Pakistanis.
As a side note, are Dravidians caucasoids?
Originally posted by PakistaniShield
I don't think there is such thing as "oldest religion" since human beings had various tribal practices and religions going back thousands of years. It can be said that Shamanism is one of the oldest surviving spiritualities
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I agree. Shamanism as a concept, however, is by far the oldest spirituality. The other religous concepts did not develop untill agriculture / domestication of animals.
Edited by Cryptic - 03-Sep-2010 at 23:17
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 00:47 |
Dear Cryptic,
I dont know much about Shamanism.But Hinduism as Pakistani shield told is not a religion,but I dont think it is a group of cult/religions.The roots of every hindu sects is in Sanathana Dharma.And all sects have a common consensus on beliefs,gods(all gods and demigods are believed to be manifestations of one supreme power"Brahman") & Texts. I think you need to know more deeply about Hinduism.
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 00:50 |
And as Pakistani shield told I am not trying to find a hindu root for everything.I am just posting what I have found out and felt.If pakistani shield felt that I am finding a hindu root for everything then it is just his understanding and not my intention/propoganda.
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PakistaniShield
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 03:07 |
Originally posted by Cryptic
They look like they are racially caucasoids to me. If Aryan is a large ethnicity like slavic, I would say that the people are racially caucasoid and ethnically Aryan. To my knowledge, with the exception of some asiatic tribal peoples and perhaps a few australoids, Bengalis are caucasoids and resemble most Indians and most Pakistanis.
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Not really. Except for a large group of people living in Northwest India, the majority look nothing like Pakistanis aside from common Caucasian skull. Also the same for Bengalis. only a minority of them look Pakistani. I don't mean just by color, but also face structure. It's a bit like comparing Swedes and Italians. Their face structures are very distinct despite both being Caucasoid.
As a side note, are Dravidians caucasoids?
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yes they are, though many or most show a small but significant Australoid admixture.
I agree. Shamanism as a concept, however, is by far the oldest spirituality. The other religious concepts did not develop untill agriculture / domestication of animals.
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There's no proof of that. What if there were practices in Africa and the Middle East found to be preceding Shamanism but are now dead. Shamanism is best described as the oldest living spiritual practice, but to say which religion/cult/spirituality is the "oldest" is very tough to say.
Edited by PakistaniShield - 04-Sep-2010 at 22:14
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 05:50 |
As I told earlier Hinduism
cannot be called a religion it is rather a culture with roots in Vedic Dharma
or Sanathana Dharma.Vedas originated in the banks of saraswati (And it cannot
be defined by one or two posts here.)
Due to various
reasons(natural calamities,Overpopultion,drying up of rivers etc) the saraswati
people migrated to other parts of the country and settled on the banks of other
rivers along with them they took their beliefs and religions also.All these new
societies had their structure common the division of society on the basis of
Varnas.
Brahmins : the priestly
class who carried out the religious riuals and monitored customs and practices.
Kshatriyas : The warrior
class who specialized in weapons and protected their settlements from
outsiders/invadrers
Vaisyas(baniyas/panis) :
The trader class who used to trade with other settlements or cities and earned
revenue.
Shudras : the worker class
who carried out all the works including farming.
Vedas ,Upanishads &
most Puranas are called “Sruthi” which
means direct revelation through mouth and other texts ie some puranas,Epics and
others are called “Smrithi” which means recollection or memory.
All the religious rituals
and customs are based on Vedas.
There are 4 vedas.
Rik,Yajur,Sama &
Atharva.
Most of the Brahmins in
India follows the first two Vedas.Some learn the third veda also.
Nambudiri Brahmins of
Kerala are Sroutha Brahmins who learns all Vedas and perform fire rituals like
agni cayana & agnistoma.All other Brahmins are Smarta Brahmins
Dixit Brahmins of
Karnataka and Maharashtra are Yajurvedi Brahmins they learn only
Yajurveda.Yajurveda has two sects 1) Krishna Yajurveda & Shukla Yajurveda
of which they are Krishna Yajurvedins.
Kulkarni Brahmins of
Maharashtra are Shukla Yajurvedins..
Iyer Brahmins of Tamil
Nadu are Rigvedi Brahmins.
Vajpayee Brahmins of North
India(UP) are those who perform the ritual of Vajapeya during Yajnas.
Similarly all Brahmins of
India are associated to one or other veda and they are the priestly class of
their particular locality.
There are basically 4
classes of Kshatriyas.
1) Surya Vanshi 2) Chandra Vanshi 3) Agni Vanshi 4)
Naga Vanshi
Maharana
Pratap Singh of Mewar was a Shisodaya Rajput who belonged to Surya
Vansh.Rathore Kurmi,Bedi & many others comes under Surya Vansh
The
Rajputs Jadejas, Tomars , Chandels
& many others comes under Chandra Vansha
The Pruthvi Raj Chauhan the last Hindu king
of Delhi belonged to Agni Vansh The Rajputs Chauhan,Pawar ,Solanki,Vaghela and
many others comes under AgniVansh.
Nairs,Nambiars,Samantha
Kshatriyas,Kodavas and others comes
under Naga Vansh.
Baniyas
or Vaishyas are the trader class of India.
And
all other farming and working population comes under Shudra class.
All
thses groups have different surnames based on the place they belong to,the
language they speak and the nature of their occupation. But their
religio-philosophical thoughts are based on Vedas only.
Discrimination
based on castes was an evil practice which came into being due to the hunger
for power and it was never suggested anywhere in any spiritual books.
In
India from North to south & East to west we have several micro and macro
societies which functioned in the above mentioned manner.All were having common
roots but rituals & customs varied from place to place.But they were never
part of different religions, was part of Sanathana Dharma only.And even villages all over india had their own governing bodies and their societies were divided according to the varnas.The village heads of north India were called Mukhiya,Sarpanj,Choudhary etc.In TamilNadu they were called as "Nattamai".In kerala they were called Madambi. They were the rulers of the area they(village head) had a small army or a group of people who practiced martial arts to protect their village from outsiders.Village had its farming class & Trader class.
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 09:07 |
There are lots of temples
with different deities scattered all over India ,Nepal and other places where
there are considerable number of Hindus.
These temples are
constructed s per Tantra tradition based on agamas which originated from
Vedas.The Tantrik practitioner who instills energy to the Vigraha(idol) is
called “Thantri”
There are 4 different
sects in this Shaiva(that related to Shiva),Vaishnava (that related to
Vishnu),Shaaktha (that related to Shakti or female diety),Ganapathya (that
related to Ganapathy)
A Kshetra or temple is the
Oorja Kendra or Energy source of the Village surrounding it.
The dieties
to be installed are decided based on the nature of the place where the temple is to be installed.
The idols are basically
constructed from Shila(stone/granite).The shila used for idol construction are
classified into three 1) Sthree shila(female) 2) Purush Shila (male) & 3)
Napumsak shila(eunuch) based on the Vibrational & sound
characteristics of the stone being used.This is accomplished by studying the
sound produced by the stone when knocked with mallets.
If the diety is a male
diety the the idol(or linga) is made of Purush shila the receptacle(or yoni) in
which the idol is fixed is made of sthree shila and the foundation on which the
idol & base will be installed will be of Napumsak shila.
If the diety is female
then idol will be made of sthree shila,base purush shila and foundation
Napumsakshila.
This assembly will be
installed in the Garbha gruha(sanctum) .Garbha Gruha will have 6 chakras
installed below it 1) Mooladhara chakra2) Swadhishtana chakra3) Manipooraka 4)
Anaahata 5) Vigyana chakra 6) Aagya chakra.
These charkas are
interconnected in the ascending order and the Aagya Chakra is connected to the
vigraha.And a mix of nine chemicals(navapashana) in a sealed copper pot with a vertical
copper capillary tube touching the idol from inside is installed in the garbha
gruha beneath the idol.
Dimensional parameters of the idols are decided based on the
tantra sect to which it belong to,moolamantra of the diety also is decided on
the basis of the sect.After installation is complete the “Prana Prathishta” is
carried out by the Thantri.During this process Thantroi instills Prana or
universal energy(neuralenergy) into the diety.The diety is so dimensioned and
installed that when moolamantra is recited ,it will vibrate in resonance and
radiates energy.
In case of Shiva LingasRudra mantra is used as moolamantra.Rudra mantra goes like Eka chame , theesras chame , pancha chame ,Sapta chame ,Nava chamaye , ekadasa chama and so on. Rudra mantra is in arithmatic progression ie 1,3 ,5 ,7 ,9 like wise
Kirlian photography was
used to take the photographs of energy radiations from temple idols and it was
observed that a properly dimensioned shivalinga was able to absorb &
radiate 23 X1030 gauss of magnetic energy.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 09:41 |
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar
I dont know much about Shamanism. |
Shamanism is not a religion either, but a religous concept associated with hunter gather societies some herders and those with limited agriculture. Individual shamanistic religions are varied. As a reflection of its hunter gatherer roots, shamanism assigns spiritual qualities to animals and land features.
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar
As I told earlier Hinduism cannot be called a religion it is rather a culture with roots in Vedic Dharma or Sanathana Dharma. |
I am confused. If Hindusim is a cultural manifestation, what about trans cultural Hinduism such as the pre Islamic Hinduism in Malaysia, Cambodia and Indonesia and modern Hinduism in Bali?
Since even related cultures can vary greatly (espcially before unifiers such as railroads, mass education, radio and television), your statement seems to support Pakistani Shield's belief that Hinduism is a group of seperate, yet closely related religions like the native american religions.
Hinduism has probably incorperated some cultural traits as religous norms like Islam has done with Arab culture. Likewise, though Hinduism is not nearly as monolithic as the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), I think it is a unified religion.
Edited by Cryptic - 04-Sep-2010 at 12:02
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balochii
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 10:51 |
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar
What do these people look like aryans or dravidians..? |
First of all, your picking and chossing pics, i am talking about the general population in bengal, south indian populations, Their facial features are mostly Dravdian, but ofcourse there is probably some small indo-aryan influence aswell. None of these guys can ever fit in Europe or even Iran/Afghanistan for that matter
most people in the subcontinent speically in India are dravidians, the more west and north you go in the subcontinent for example towards pakistan or north to Kashmir, the indo aryan features become more apparant.
Edited by balochii - 04-Sep-2010 at 10:55
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PakistaniShield
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Posted: 04-Sep-2010 at 22:19 |
many Iranians and Afghans could actually pass for dravids due to elamite traces there. apart from people in the south and east, most Pakistanis cannot pass off as Indians or other south asians.
But then remember there was a huge exchange of populations in 1947. Even many indian tamils are said to be amongst the many Muslim immigrants that migrated to Pakistan
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ranjithvnambiar
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Posted: 06-Sep-2010 at 03:14 |
Originally posted by balochii
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar
What do these people look like aryans or dravidians..? |
First of all, your picking and chossing pics, i am talking about the general population in bengal, south indian populations, Their facial features are mostly Dravdian, but ofcourse there is probably some small indo-aryan influence aswell. None of these guys can ever fit in Europe or even Iran/Afghanistan for that matter
most people in the subcontinent speically in India are dravidians, the more west and north you go in the subcontinent for example towards pakistan or north to Kashmir, the indo aryan features become more apparant. |
The photos that I have posted in the other tread of some famous malayalis and Tamils, it may resemble europeans but they are all dravidians.Whether i choose or not they are all dravidians. For eg:- Vijay Nambiar , Shivshankar Menon,K.G.Balakrishnan,Mammootty,Shashi Tharoor all are Dravidians and belong to the southernmost state of India ie Kerala.The photos are given below
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