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Israel’s Big Crime!

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  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Israel’s Big Crime!
    Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 11:46

Israel is pulling out of the Gaza Strip where 1.5 million Palestinians live, so that it could cement its' rule in Jerusalem and West Bank. New houses are being built (for some of those relocated Israelis) in the middle of Jerusalem's Old City's Arab quarter...

And what about those Israeli settlers who killed 4 Palestinians during the pullout?

Baracuda the Armenian Genocide has been debated a lot of times here, and in the end, the only argument Turks could find is that the Ottoman Empire commited the crime, and not modern-day Turkey.

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:00
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Who are these Palestianins that we are talking about? There is no country called "Palestine", so why do we call these Arabs as Palestinains?

We know many things about Parthia and Parthian language, religion, ... but no one in Iran claims to be a Parthian, it is really interesting these Arabs claim to be Palestinan just because a people with this name lived there more than 3,000 years ago, however, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, there are no documents in the Palestinain language, which was probably replaced by Canaanite, Aramaic, and, later, Greek. Nor is much known of the Palestinain religion ...

Omg... Palestina is recongnised by the hole world except Israel as a COUNTRY!!!

Im just shocked by youre posts, only a Jew can say such things lol but true... 

I whas of plan to debate about yours country name but forget about it

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  Quote Gavriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:02
Why couldnt these two peoples get along better? after ww2 when the Jews went to palestine/israel did the conflict start straight away? what happened?
Can you imagine how rich that country could be?If Jerusalem was safe to visit it would have millions of visitors every year,creating thousands of jobs, the people who live there would have a very high standard of living.
I dont know too much about this conflict,but if i offended anybody,i apologise.
G

p.s  is there any Israeli/ jews on these forums?

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  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:20

Why couldnt these two peoples get along better? after ww2 when the Jews went to palestine/israel did the conflict start straight away? what happened?
Can you imagine how rich that country could be?If Jerusalem was safe to visit it would have millions of visitors every year,creating thousands of jobs, the people who live there would have a very high standard of living.
I dont know too much about this conflict,but if i offended anybody,i apologise.

Unfortunately, Jerusalem has become a city for all those Ultra-religious Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

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  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:20
maybe cyrus the great ahhaha
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:30

 It looks like at least in mind this is true.

 Cyrus arent you much pro-jews? Arabs are also human, and their country occupied and occupiers are not so innocent guys.



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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 12:53

Then the rule must also be true for other nations, no country such as Syria or Britain exists - the people of Southern England were only referred to as Britons by the Romans, yet the inhabitants of those isles today call themselves British when they clearly cannot be... 

Sorry but that Zionist propaganda does not work for me.

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 13:29
Originally posted by Zagros

Then the rule must also be true for other nations, no country such as Syria or Britain exists - the people of Southern England were only referred to as Britons by the Romans, yet the inhabitants of those isles today call themselves British when they clearly cannot be... 

Sorry but that Zionist propaganda does not work for me.

The people of Scotland and Wales sometimes will refer to themselves that way, as a Scottish Brit or a welsh Brit.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 13:57
I was being ironic, there is not such a thing as a Scottish Brit or Welsh Brit, British refers to the peoples of the whole of the isles. One either says he is Scottish, English, Welsh or British, there is no British ethnicity.
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  Quote Gavriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 14:18
I dont know any one who refers to him/her self as British,its English,Scottish,Welsh and Irish.
I dont know what to call myself now (LOL) am i  Celtic/brigante, Roman,Anglo-Saxon,Danish (i live in the North of england) ,Norman or even Scottish (Armstrong clan)! i could be any one of them.



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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 15:48
Before we carry on with this discusion, I would like to point out that there is a slight confusion about the terms "Jews, Israelis, Zionists and so on", and I'm myself are not wholy innocent here.
Jews are a religious community, by far not homogenous, and for any Orthodox Jew settling illegaly in the Gaza strip, there are many more liberal Jews all over the world, who have no intentions to live in Israel.
Not every Israeli does agree with the actions of his/her government, past and present, against the Palestinians and other Arabic countries, there is large movement in Israel for a peaceful conciliation with the Palestinians, recognising their rightful demands.
Zionists are members of a political movement, founded in the 19th century, that demanded and finally created a homeland for the Jewish population in Palestine, and I'm not certain if you still can apply this term today.

To clarify for once , what I deplore are the politics of most post-independence Israeli governments, the Orthodox hardliners and the like. That doesn't mean, I despise every Israeli or Jew, or hold them responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
I think we should use our words carefully here, before we all fall into the Anti-Semite trap once again.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 16:46
Zionists exist; they are the settlers, they are the ones who wish to settle illegally on anothers land forcibly without any consideration for the livelihood of the previous occupants, this lack of consideration and dehumanisation has born fruit in the shape of Palestinian terrorism and resistance.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 17:02
70% of Israeli supports pulling out of the Gaza. I think they are not  happy too living with fear.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 18:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

these what you call "terroest groups" are supported by the majority of Palistinians and they are considered an occupation  resistance groups

so what I said can be expanded to the majority of Palistinians, if they all want to blow up buses of schoolchildren!  

well yea you can expand that to the majority of Palistinians, But not all of them want to blow up buses of schoolchildern

thats littel shalow thinking, the majority of Palistians support the something Called "" OCCUPATION RISSISTANCE""  those Groups were created After the Israeli Occupation.

also you didnt tell me how Israel is more Legal than UAE?

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

If anybody could tell me what the moral difference is between the murder of innnocent Israeli children by suicide bombers and the murder of innocent Palestinian children by Israeli Army helicopter gunships, I would be grateful.

The first one is killed by hate but the second one is killed by accident!

yea Accident full of love when shooting "school childern" on the Head.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Who are these Palestianins that we are talking about? There is no country called "Palestine", so why do we call these Arabs as Palestinains?

We know many things about Parthia and Parthian language, religion, ... but no one in Iran claims to be a Parthian, it is really interesting these Arabs claim to be Palestinan just because a people with this name lived there more than 3,000 years ago, however, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, there are no documents in the Palestinain language, which was probably replaced by Canaanite, Aramaic, and, later, Greek. Nor is much known of the Palestinain religion ...

lol

ok Cyrus  you are saying those Arabs are not the original Palestinans and they dont have any right to live in this land  right?

then why you just tell us what should be done to these Pathatic Arabs who claim that they are Palestinians ?

if you dont mind please just give us your totall conclusion about the situation and after the Terrorests are destroyed what should be done to the rest of the remaining of the population "who supported " the late terrorests its very  intersting  to know such facts from you.

 

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 18:17
Most arabs are not even ethnically related to the Arabs of the arabian penninsula, and the Palestinian "arabs" are no different.
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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 19:21

Originally posted by Komnenos


If anybody could tell me what the moral difference is between the murder of innnocent Israeli children by suicide bombers and the murder of innocent Palestinian children by Israeli Army helicopter gunships, I would be grateful.

Let me try to sum it up. There is a popular belief among others, that people who have no state cant form a 'legal' army and therefore are declared terrorists. In this category of course we have the Palestinians. Its more than obvious that in a hypothetically open warfare of Palestinians against Israelis, Israely army would obviously win more than easy. This leads the palestinians not to have the viable option of open warfare but prefering alternative available actions hence engage in a secret war.

Now if the deal is to declare terrorism the secret warfare whereas open warfare, in which far more civilians will undoubtedly die and this to be seen as "acceptable war", this leads to the logical conclusion that only those with a certain economic, military and political power have the right to engage in warfare. Personally I see no moral distinction between openly bombing villages and secretly bombing nightclubs.


Surely there are large groups of people in the world who are denied of their rightful political power and rights. To say that the groups who kill innocent civilians in attempts to reclaim their rightful political power are somehow worse than those who have all the political power, but still kill innocent civilians, is simply unaceptable.

Here i would like to add that terrorism in any form is unjustifiable but people should comprehend that suicide bombing, as a tactic, is different than terrorism. If suicide bombing is used against perpetrators - in our case, occupiers- then its not terrorism but in case of using suicide bombing against innocent civilians then it is terrorism.

The so-called war against terrorism of Israelis involves murdering of civilians in order to retain their political power. From the other hand, the Palestinians, from whom the Israeli's have taken their political power, murder civilians in an attempt to reclaim the power which was stolen from them. There is no moral difference i can see here.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 22:16
If I was an Israeli I would hate those settlers so much! They go steal land illegally and then expect the poor army to come and have to defend them!  Those settlers are selfish and racist, they are liek the Boers of hte middle east.  If I was Israeli I would either want them to be shot for resisting or fed to the Palestinains as food.
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  Quote Shahanshah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 23:48

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

They are forcing poor Jews to leave their homes in Gaza Strip, it is really sad! but I think their worse crime is that they are in fact giving more training camps to Palestinain terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades!

Cyrus jaan, were you being sarcastic? or are you really brain washed by the propaganda machine of american and western media?

The only terrorist groups are zionists, Zionists started terrorising the land, before world war 2, the jewish zionist movement was considered terrorism, but all that changed after the war and the discovery of the haulocost.

Palestinians are the great descendents of the ancient hebrews, other people who had settled the land. believe it or not. how in the world did white jews from europe with no genetic connection to the land say "palestine is a jewish homeland"??? isnt that religious extremism, isn't that fanatism? isn't that stupid? how can someone be part of a race just being part of a religion? it's like saying all muslims are arabs!!! or saying all budhisst are chinese.

Judaism is not a race, but a religion, zionist make up stupid sh*t like they were part of the "lost tribe" of israel. ahhaha. even in india, a group of population converted to judaism and said they were a lost tribe of israelates. zionism is an evil idealogy

and idealogy combined with religous extremism and racism. it is a political movement.

1875-1877: Russian pogroms; first Zionist aliya (migration) to Palestine.  They were called the "lovers of zion".

before that, palestinians (arabs, hebrews (yishuv yahud), muslims, jews, christians) lived together in peace and harmony. which then was part of the Ottoman empire. Everything changed with the coming of the zionists of europe.

they started terrorising the population, thus increasing local tensions against their own jews, therfore the native jewish people started rallying around the zionists, this terrorism continued untill 1948. which created an even worse kind of terrorism: STATE terrorism.

i say palestinians are doing what we all would do.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 00:05
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Who are these Palestianins that we are talking about? There is no country called "Palestine", so why do we call these Arabs as Palestinains?


Maybe you prefered they were called Israelis and that Israel wouldn't be anymore an racist Jew entity? That's precisely what Palestinians have asked for all the time before Oslo: that Israel should disapear and a non-religious non-ethnic state be created in Palestine... of course they didn't call it Israel.

Btw, Palestine (the PLO before the PNA now) is recognized by the UN. After all it was the UN who blessed the partition of Palestine to give much more than their share to the Zionist cause.

We know many things about Parthia and Parthian language, religion, ... but no one in Iran claims to be a Parthian, it is really interesting these Arabs claim to be Palestinan just because a people with this name lived there more than 3,000 years ago, however, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, there are no documents in the Palestinain language, which was probably replaced by Canaanite, Aramaic, and, later, Greek. Nor is much known of the Palestinain religion ...


They use the name Palestine because that was the name of the region before 1948: it was a British mandate named Palestine (not Israel or Judea or Hebrewland or New Washington) and 80% of its population were Muslims (100% Arabic-speakers). It is Israel the name that has been rescued from history books, along with the Hebrew language, that wasn't spoken anymore outside the synagogues. It's like rebuilding the Roman Empire and restoring the quotidane use of Latin... or, if you prefer a more oriental scenario, the resoration of that Median civilization from nothingness that you talk about.

Palestinians were, are and will be a real people of the 20th and 21st centuries.


The British Mandate of Palestine as defined in Versailles (1919). In 1922, Transjordan (now Jordan) was separated and the Mandate was restricted by the League of Nations to the area west of the river Jordan and the Dead Sea.

Palestinian Arabs were fighting for their independence as soon as 1936 (Great Uprising or Arab Revolt). Increased Jewish inmigration (due to Nazism but favored by Britain and the League of Nations) was partly behind this early Palestinian nationalist manifestation.

Year Total Muslim Jewish Christian Other
1922 752,048 589,177(78%) 83,790(11%) 71,464(10%) 7,617(1%)
1931 1,036,339 761,922(74%) 175,138(17%) 89,134(9%) 10,145(1%)
1945 1,764,520 1,061,270(60%) 553,600(31%) 135,550(8%) 14,100(1%)
Population in British mandate of Palestine by religion.
(Source: Wikipedia)


Edited by Maju

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 00:06
Originally posted by Shahanshah

Cyrus jaan, were you being sarcastic? or are you really brain washed by the propaganda machine of american and western media?

Maybe he is just not brain washed byh the propaganda machine of al jazeer or all those pro islam anti western/christian propaganda. They all can be equally as bad.

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