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SearchAndDestroy
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Topic: Israel vs Lebanon, the sequel Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 21:05 |
Originally posted by Mila
And, in the south, 10 members of a single family were burried en masse, most of them children and infants. |
I heard it was twelve members of a single family that was killed near the border in a airstrike.
If Iran were to get involved in some way, this might be the excuse Bush needs to get in there....
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Mila
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:18 |
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy
If Iran were to get involved in some way, this
might be the excuse Bush needs to get in there.... |
They're already blaming Iran and Syria, both of whom - as vaguely
guilty as they are - are immeasureably more involved than the Lebanese
government.
Bush said the world needs to support the "agents of peace" in the Middle East, like Israel.
I
can't believe anyone would think of any nation in this war as an agent
of peace, especially not the one with the most blood on its hands -
thousands of people's worth more than the others.
It's starting to make me crazy, truly crazy. I can't even sleep at night.
Why is the United States the only Western country that blindly supports
Israel? It can't be related to the holocaust, or a fear of appearing
anti-Semitic. That in itself bothers me as well; not being allowed to
discuss it because suddenly you're anti-Semitic.
I respect the holocaust, and it's victims - but there's no such thing
as genetically passing down pain and suffering. Yariv from Tel Aviv may
be Jewish, but if you ask me who's suffered more - him or Asma from
Nablus, and I think the answer would probably be Asma.
It's the same with Serbian nationalists and the Turks. Marko from
Belgrade did NOT suffer under Turkish occupation. He's probably never
even seen a f--king Turk so shut the f--k up about it.
Edited by Mila - 13-Jul-2006 at 22:19
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bg_turk
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:34 |
Originally posted by Mila
It's the same with Serbian nationalists and the Turks. Marko from
Belgrade did NOT suffer under Turkish occupation. He's probably never
even seen a f--king Turk so shut the f--k up about it.
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Wow, Mila you are real angry. But I totally agree with what you said above because I have experienced it myself. Many of the nationalist Bulgarians I have argued with talk about the Turks with such a passsion as if they have experienced everything yesterday, and not 200 years ago. There must be this Turk-hating gene passed from generation to generation, I cannot explain how otherwise one would hate Turks, despite not having met a single one of them.
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Mila
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 22:36 |
It's just a defense mechanism so they don't have to consciously
acknowledge their own suckiness, they can just blame it on some
distant, abstract wrong.
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Jay.
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:07 |
The recent story on the war.
Originally posted by
Israel pursues strikes on Lebanon
Israel is continuing to subject Lebanon to strikes by land, sea and air, following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants.
More than 50 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in the attacks.
Israeli jets have struck southern Beirut, a Hezbollah stronghold, and the main Beirut-Damascus road.
Hezbollah has hit Israeli towns with rocket attacks and Israeli sources said the group had fired on the northern port city of Haifa.
Hezbollah had said it would attack Haifa if Israeli planes bombed Beirut but denied firing any rockets at Israel's third largest city.
However, it has killed at least two Israelis and injured dozens in rocket attacks into Israel in the past two days.
The Israeli ambassador in Washington, Danny Ayalon, described the Haifa incident as a "major escalation" of the crisis.
Israel later bombed targets in southern Beirut, where Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah has offices, Lebanese security sources said. A power plant was also reportedly hit.
And Lebanon's road to Damascus - the main arterial route - was closed by Israeli jet attacks in the central mountains region, Lebanese officials said.
On Thursday, Israeli forces twice struck the international airport in Beirut.
Mr Ayalon said the international community should make it clear to Iran and Syria - which Israel says form an "axis of terror" with Hezbollah and Palestinian militants Hamas - that they were "playing with fire".
Calls for calm
According to Syrian television, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad telephoned Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Thursday night to say there would be a "fierce response" to any Israeli attack on Syria.
"If the Zionist regime commits another stupid move and attacks Syria, this will be considered like attacking the whole Islamic world," Mr Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying.
Meanwhile the UN Security Council has arranged an emergency meeting for Friday at Lebanon's request.
International calls for calm are growing, with Russia, France and the EU saying Israel's response to the capture of two soldiers was disproportionate.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice urged Israel to exercise restraint but also demanded that Syria put pressure on Hezbollah to stop attacks on Israel.
Lebanese ministers have called for a ceasefire with Israel, saying that all means should be used to end "open aggression" against their country.
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel was responding to "an unprovoked act of aggression" by Lebanon.
The offensive follows a day of heavy fighting on Wednesday in which the Israelis suffered their worst losses on the border for several years.
Eight soldiers were killed and two were injured, in addition to the two captured in a Hezbollah ambush.
Hezbollah has said the captured soldiers will not be returned without a release deal for Palestinian, Lebanese and other Arab prisoners held in Israeli jails.
Israel is also continuing a separate offensive in the Gaza Strip. An Israeli soldier was captured there last month.
Two rockets hit Israeli city of Haifa on Thursday evening
Israel targets Lebanon by land, air and sea: enforcing naval blockade, bombing Beirut airport and shelling Lebanese towns
Jets bomb Lebanese army air base at Rayak and Baalbek TV transmitter in Bekaa Valley
Shelling from both sides is heaviest over Lebanon's southern border
Hezbollah targets Kiryat Shmona, Nahariya and Safed in Israel
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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb
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Mila
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:28 |
swissinfo: In view of the rising death toll over the past couple of
days, would it be fair to say that we're heading towards a new period
of bloody conflict in the region?
Arnold
Hottinger: It depends very much on the Israelis, whether they will want
to reactivate the Lebanese front or whether they will content
themselves with a few blows and leave it at that.
swissinfo: But Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert appears to be under pressure to strike hard against both Hamas and Hezbollah?
A.H.
Certainly. He has the army standing right behind him, and it's
difficult to tell the army [to hold back] when it has suffered an
enormous loss of prestige over the captured soldiers. I'm sure Olmert
is under pressure from the army to do the maximum, but he must think of
the political consequences.
swissinfo: Is the capture of the three Israeli soldiers likely to bring the Israelis to the negotiating table?
A.H.:
No, but there will be a new wave of hope among the Palestinians that
they can achieve something. They can see that the capture of the
soldiers has had a deep effect on the Israelis.
But the
Palestinians are misreading the situation. In fact the Israelis and
Palestinians both misread each other. The Israelis think that if they
only beat them enough, the Palestinians will give in and that's not
true.
Arnold Hottinger (swissinfo)
swissinfo: The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has appealed for intervention. What room is there for diplomacy now?
A.H.:
It's too late. First of all the Americans will always take the Israeli
side, and right now the Palestinians are convinced that the Americans
are no real partner. Second, the Europeans have no clear position what
they want to do and they have no force to impose anything anyway.
So
the fighting will go on. Both sides will insist on misreading the other
and that will lead to a continuation and a slow increase of the crisis
until they understand that they both have the wrong approach.
swissinfo:
Did the failure of the international community to recognise a
democratically elected Hamas given Israel a green light to go after
them?
A.H.: It did
certainly encourage Israel that nobody recognised Hamas, but it also
forced Hamas into activism. If Hamas saw the possibility of a
diplomatic way out, they would take it.
swissinfo:
So it was a serious error of judgment by the international community
not to recognise what is a democratically elected government?
A.H.:
Too much was made of the word "terrorism". People were saying, "they
are terrorists, so we don't talk to them". They were terrorists and
they were trying something else. We didn't talk to them, so they
remained terrorists.
swissinfo: Are we seeing the birth of a third intifada and the prospect of a new wave of suicide bombings in Israel?
A.H.: No. It won't be an intifada, because the [Palestinian] masses are too tired. It will be a guerrilla action like in Iraq.
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Gundamor
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:42 |
So what exactly do the U.S. do? I suppose a weak statement like the EU put out "concerned" would of been better then backing your allies. Whats even more sad is the fact people think the U.S. wants a war with Syria and Iran. This conflict is the last thing the U.S. wants and I guarentee you they are trying hard to stop Israel from taking this to far. My hope is that the U.S. doesnt have to step in. Because then I'll just get to hear more biased anti U.S. rhetric. "Blame it on the americans" should be the new world motto.
Maybe they should just let Israel do what it wants as this problem will never be solved as long as countries harbour terrorists or make dumb statements like Israel needs to be wiped off the map.
So much focus on one side yet no one seems to care about the 100+ rockets getting lobbed into Israel and Israelis losing there lives.
And how on earth would you think this has anything to do with the holecaust in anyways to mention it is beyond me. I'm honestly not sure if 1/5 of the american population even knows what the holecaust was other then something that happened during world war 2.
Originally posted by Illuminati
Considering there are more Jews living in the US than there are in Israel, I'm pretty sure that Americans know what the holocaust was. The Jewish lobby in the US is immensley powerful, don't think that they don't make sure everyone knows what happened ot the Jews.
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I wouldnt be to sure of that. 1/5 is probably good that no detailed information about the holecaust this out of 296 million people. I remember asking soldiers when i was in germany about it and alot less then 1/5 new what it was or refered to as "that thing" or had never heard of the word. It has also been removed from history lesson plans in some cities and states. However this lobby you talk about also pushes for teachers to find room for it in history plans.
Edited by Gundamor - 14-Jul-2006 at 01:05
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"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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Illuminati
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Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 23:58 |
The US shouldn't do anything. A strong "statement" like taht of the powerless EU doesn't mean anything to Israel. Israel is a country that uses force and military power to make their point. Statements of concern from countries and Unions aren't going to affect it. All the US should do is say they are concerned about the situation and urge those involved to be careful and show restraint. israel buys arms from all over tghe world. They buy them from india, russia, US, etc...anyone who claims it's america's fault for arming them is a fool, especially considering France and the UK were the ones who gave Israel the materials and instructions on how to make an atomic bomb. It's Europe's fault Israel is a nuclear power. The only way Israel will heed to pressure is if someone threatens them with military force or economic sanctions, and I don't see anyone doing that right now. If Israel has started a conflict that they can't win, then that's their problem Personally, from a geo-politcal perspective, israel should be attacking the Syrian govt. The lebanese govt. doesn't yet have control over the whole country. It hasn't been that long since Syria's occupation ended. Syria is the real puppet-master here. They are the ones who have the msot control over Hezbollah. causing the Lebanese govt. to collapse will only set the country back, and will in the end, give more power and control to groups like Hezbollah. I don't think that's in Israel or the region's best interest.
I'm honestly not sure if 1/5 of the american population even knows what
the holecaust was other then something that happened during world war 2. |
Considering there are more Jews living in the US than there are in Israel, I'm pretty sure that Americans know what the holocaust was. The Jewish lobby in the US is immensley powerful, don't think that they don't make sure everyone knows what happened ot the Jews.
Edited by Illuminati - 14-Jul-2006 at 00:12
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Ponce de Leon
Caliph
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 01:09 |
Israel is not just fighting the Hezbollah. They are probably fighting Syrians, and Iranians there also. Just heard on the news that the Israeli forces encounted missle attacks from Iranian gunmen. THis is turning into an even "BIGGER" international conflict, and i believe it justifies Israel's case to defend herself.
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azimuth
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 03:04 |
yea sure Israel has the right to defend itself by occupying whole country for the sake of 2 soldiers.
sure 2 soliders were kidnapped and Israel has the right to destroy all Lebanon and even nuke Beirut.
2 precious Israeli soldiers = all Lebanon
defend itself my ass.
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Israel grew too strong and powerful with strength put it in the top 10 strongest countries in the world and with a population size smaller than 99 countries in the world.
too strong not knowing to do with all these weapons and soliders and capability.
this country is preparing itself for wars since its birth, looking for excuses to show its strength.
by the look of their frustration its clear that this is a SHORT living system and it cannot keep maintaining this strategy on the long term. its a dying country.
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Israel keep Occupying others lands , kill whoever it wants and later makes up excuses ( always that it thinks terrorist living or hiding there, and the truth children and women were killed).
if so then REMEMBER when the times comes and Israel becomes the weak one ( and it will be sooner or later), when one Jew makes a mistake and a whole city been occupied and families killed, REMEMBER they have the right to defend themselves ( Israeli way).
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 03:46 |
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 04:17 |
Originally posted by Sparten
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak. |
I hope you were being sarcastic?
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 05:39 |
I was being perfectly straightforward. Its a harsh lesson, but one that all nations should learn.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 05:47 |
The Law of the Pimp my friend,the Law of the Pimp.
Edited by Spartakus - 14-Jul-2006 at 05:49
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--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Mortaza
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 06:56 |
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak.
Well said, after all we are living a jungle world.
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 07:09 |
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malizai_
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 07:48 |
Well said Sparten.
The poor americans, they dont understand y arabs and moslems hate them. aaaaahh....
Well it might just be because they are the fist in the israeli glove. US, the lackeys or coolies of israel, veto again. It reinforces spartens view, that he is correct to hold, based on the profane observations he makes.
U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel
"The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained."
"Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict."
Then the americans have the audacity to tell the rest of the world they dont understand why they are so hated in that part of the world.
USA is the tool of oppression in the ME and it shamelessly knows it.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:05 |
Originally posted by Sparten
Its the Lebanese's fault at the end of the day. They committed the biggest crime in International affairs, that is to be weak. |
best line in the whole thread.
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
Israel is not just fighting the Hezbollah. They
are probably fighting Syrians, and Iranians there also. Just heard on
the news that the Israeli forces encounted missle attacks from Iranian
gunmen. THis is turning into an even "BIGGER" international conflict,
and i believe it justifies Israel's case to defend herself. |
Probably? Hezbi are iranian puppets this is an indirect war, nothing hezbi does happens without a nod by Iran or Syria. Though i think all of these actors undersestimated Isreals reaction. anyway i think isreal is trying to win back the initiative it seems to be loosing in the gaza alleys.
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:36 |
Originally posted by Leondias
Israel is not just fighting the Hezbollah. They are probably fighting Syrians, and Iranians there also. Just heard on the news that the Israeli forces encounted missle attacks from Iranian gunmen. THis is turning into an even "BIGGER" international conflict, and i believe it justifies Israel's case to defend herself.Probably? Hezbi are iranian puppets this is an indirect war, nothing hezbi does happens without a nod by Iran or Syria. Though i think all of these actors undersestimated Isreals reaction.
anyway i think isreal is trying to win back the initiative it seems to be loosing in the gaza alleys.
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I disagree. This is like a dream come true for all of them. Israel is jumping headlong into a war with no clear objectives. It cannot be for the soldiers, you don't send an mechanized division (15,000 men plus 5000 vehicals) to rescue two men, you have Spec Ops for that. Isreal's attacks are only strenghtening Hizbollah. They can march all the way up to Beruit, but the problem is that they can't hold the land (destroying a gurellia organization like Hizbollah needs you to occupy the land first), and the Syrians are almost certainly going to get involved, if they get as far as Beruit.
So its 1982 all over again. Only difference is that this time there are no Christian puppets for the Israelis to use as auxilleires on the ground. They will have to do the pacifying themselves, something they don't even begin to have the forces for.
Hizbollah is seen standing up to and indeed through the rocket strikes even hurting israel.
The thank you notes in Olmert's office are from Damascus. And Tehran.
Edited by Sparten - 14-Jul-2006 at 08:37
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 08:54 |
Originally posted by malizai_
Well said Sparten.
The poor americans, they dont understand y arabs and moslems hate them. aaaaahh....
Well it might just be because they are the fist in the israeli glove. US, the lackeys or coolies of israel, veto again. It reinforces spartens view, that he is correct to hold, based on the profane observations he makes.
U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel
"The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained."
"Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict."
Then the americans have the audacity to tell the rest of the world they dont understand why they are so hated in that part of the world.
USA is the tool of oppression in the ME and it shamelessly knows it. |
International politics is such a simple subject for you isn't it? Have you thought of applying to the Foreign Office? They could use your vast knowledge and observation skills.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 14-Jul-2006 at 09:07
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