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Topic: History repeats in Gaza Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 15:30
Originally posted by Challenger2
Originally posted by Menumorut
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland.
Jewish people, like Christians or Hindus or Muslims, in fact all human beings can live anywhere that can accept them. Zionist historiography has perverted the Torah and convinced the gullible that the ancestral “Homeland of the Jewish Race” is in Palestine, whereas historically there have been many “Jewish Homelands.”
For example, the Himyarite kingdom in Arabia, the Berber kingdom of queen Kahina in the Maghreb, ancient Khazaria in the Caucasus, even the “The Pale” of central and Eastern Europe was a Jewish homeland for centuries. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is a de facto Jewish state, so it appears Jewish people everywhere have multiple choices for a “homeland”. In recent history they were offered large tracts of Uganda, Madagascar and Argentina as homelands.
They can live in Palestine for all I care, but they have no right to dispossess a native population of their homeland to do so. They have no right to oppress, murder, rape and plunder another people to do so and finally they have no right to complain when the people that they have treated so cruelly for over half a century rise up against them .
Originally posted by Menumorut
.. Hamas is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons...
Hamas is a terrorist organisation because the American Congress chooses to say so at the behest of their Zionist paymasters and because the Zionist colonists in Palestine want it that way. The E.U. does what America says, but the rest of the world thinks otherwise. For that matter the numbers of people in the E.U. that think otherwise is also growing with every new atrocity perpetrated by the Zionist regime.
A gross and total exaggeration.
The US, Canada, the EU and Japan, have designated Hamas as a terrorist group. Your ability to obfuscate, lie and distort in support of Islamist, fascist, terrorism is now clearly evident and btw..slipping. As a an exemplary supporter of the Hamas terrorist group; you then by association and supportive language, used on the forum, support the Hamas Covenent.
And as it has been recognized as an anti-semitic document by the aforementioned members of the international community and the staff of AE; and a credo which in turn calls for the violent and repressive action necessary to quell counter resistance from Palestinians not in support of the Hamas stated agendas and the direct obligation or dissolution of a sovereign state ie. Israel. Your prescence here is at an end.
Your ongoing hate speech and inflammatory rhetoric directed towards the State of Israel under the 'cover' of the term zionist and your support of the anti-semitic Hamas terrorist group which advocates the same, is in violation of the CoC. B.5; B.8.
Consequently you are suspended.
Period: Indefinite.
The Owner-Admin retains the right to review and or amend this decision.
Be warned all others here who support Hamas or the actions of any other Islamist fascist terrorist group. Choose your language very, very, carefully or you will join Challenger2.
This thread is now locked.
CV
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 06-Dec-2012 at 15:50
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 13:24
All my friend, forget the history in this history forum. Maybe you don't want to see it.
Let's check the maps of the region.
*Is that your justice? look at land owners map in 1948(before Arap Israel War)-In 1917 jewish land owners were more little than in 1948. It got increase because of immigrant jews who didn't belong Middle-East.
*However Holy UN accepted new Jewish country with that huge lands. That's why, Palestine and Arab countries attacked Israel, but they lost more land.
This rapidly losse of lands and demographic changes make Arabs angry.
Originally posted by Menumorut
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland.
Let me help you to explain how I see the situation with using imaginary Romani State. (this is just a scenario)
Romania is a home for Romani people in Europe. The biggest population is living here, which is nearly 8-12% of general Romanian population(jews are 7.6% of Palestine in 1914) and these people have suffered and still suffering.
so Let's begin the scenario; *EU decide to that all Romani people can go Romania, EU wants to make them happy and feel safe. However people of Romania doesn't have right to disagree.
*After 30 years, Romani people reach the %33 percent of all Romanian population as jew in 1948. and They want to be independent and EU supports this idea. Then according to new plan 56% of Romania should be Romani people but they are just 33% of general population as in Palestian case.
*The idea is accepted, but People of Romania disagree with it(50 years ago they were majority with 90% and had most of land) so they start to fight. Unfortunately, people of Romania can't bite the Romani people. Romani people occupy more land than the agreement as a war treasure. (Arap-Israel War)
Do I need to continue? I think you get the main idea.
Nonsense, nothing will stop them from hating Jews and Americans, it's too much fun.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 11:30
Cyrus, it would be in everyone's interests if the Islamists were kicked out and discredited. First, however, the Palestinians need to be granted their own state and the responsibility of government, like the Irish after WWI, otherwise they will never stop hating the Israelis and Americans.
The Zionist regime is certainly the best regime in the Middle East, as it was mentioned above, they are nationalist and respect their own people but we see the leaders of other countries in the Middle East have killed several millions of their people.
I think if the Zionists just leave the terrorist groups of Hamas and Fatah alone, they will again fight against each other and kill more terrorists and no one will complain!
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Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 04:49
Originally posted by Menumorut
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland.
Jewish people, like Christians or Hindus or Muslims, in fact all human beings can live anywhere that can accept them. Zionist historiography has perverted the Torah and convinced the gullible that the ancestral “Homeland of the Jewish Race” is in Palestine, whereas historically there have been many “Jewish Homelands.”
For example, the Himyarite kingdom in Arabia, the Berber kingdom of queen Kahina in the Maghreb, ancient Khazaria in the Caucasus, even the “The Pale” of central and Eastern Europe was a Jewish homeland for centuries. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is a de facto Jewish state, so it appears Jewish people everywhere have multiple choices for a “homeland”. In recent history they were offered large tracts of Uganda, Madagascar and Argentina as homelands.
They can live in Palestine for all I care, but they have no right to dispossess a native population of their homeland to do so. They have no right to oppress, murder, rape and plunder another people to do so and finally they have no right to complain when the people that they have treated so cruelly for over half a century rise up against them .
Originally posted by Menumorut
.. Hamas is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons...
Hamas is a terrorist organisation because the American Congress chooses to say so at the behest of their Zionist paymasters and because the Zionist colonists in Palestine want it that way. The E.U. does what America says, but the rest of the world thinks otherwise. For that matter the numbers of people in the E.U. that think otherwise is also growing with every new atrocity perpetrated by the Zionist regime.
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland.
Ollios, Hamas is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons:
1. It attacked (Jewish) civilians
2. It terroize its own people (Israeli Arabs).
Based on your own logic, Israel is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons:
1. It attacked (Gazan) civilians
2. It terrorize its own people (many posts in this thread demonstrate how Palestinians are essentially genetically identical to Jews).
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 17:36
Originally posted by Nick1986
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland.
Ollios, Hamas is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons:
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 17:27
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
It took a while for you to finally come out from behind your facade of neutrality vice voiced sympathies for the dupes of Gaza. Led by the internationally recognized Hamas Terrorist group. You've been made. You deny their terrorist activities and you would counter with the same tired old crap spewn by terrorist supporters long before you were born. Your a Hamas terrorist supporter alright and no doubt a closet jew hater. No doubt in my mind. All your counter attempts
Yes, many activitists all around the world, who don't support Israel's Palestine policy, all of them are terrorist supporters and all western country who blames Israel's the last acts, are terrorist supporters too. Well done Vigilis, thanks to share your excellent theory about me.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You
are absolutely wrong, terrorist attacks are not the solution, do you
support Kurds, if they use the same tactic in Turkey?
First of all, I said before I don't call them terrorist attacks. If there is something bad, that is war crime and this term does not make it true, it is still should be judge. In Kurd case, if they attack the Turkish soilder, I see it as a fight. When they hit civils, I called it terrorist attack.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You live in the
Middle East and you know this problem doesn't exist just in Israel but
all other lands where Islamists live, such as Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan,
Pakistan, ...
Look at today reality, there is a peace agrement between Palestine and Israel, but Israel has already declared that they will build 3000 new house in West Bank and 700 more in East Jarusalem. Now who is breaking the agrement? If Palestine attack again, can you dare to blame them to break agrement?
I always give to Caesar what is Caesar's. If I see something bad in Israel, I say it or good thing I say it too. Same is for Palestine. If they kidnap a soilder, I say this is war. If they attack a school, I say this is war crime.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I see no reason
that Israel is changed, fortunately, this is a powerful country and is
supported by the most powerful countries in the world.
Do you think that powerful should do every thing what he wants? Bad politics should be changed in every country, powerful or weak.
Originally posted by Nick1986
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists.
Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer
most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 13:21
Originally posted by Challenger2
Originally posted by Nick1986
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
LOL, relax. I’m well aware that just as All Germans weren't
Nazis and not all Nazis were German, so too not all Jewish people are Zionists
and not all Zionists are Jewish.
Having said that, it is an inescapable fact those who actively
choose to live in the Zionist colony in Palestine either actively or passively
support the ideology of Zionism, which makes them culpable in the atrocities
and crimes against humanity carried out by their governments in their name;
they are a democracy, after all. I’m
often in contact with Breaking the Silence, B'Tselem and other principled
Jewish groups who value truth above Zionist propaganda and lies. It may be a cliche, but I do in fact, have many Jewish friends.
Equally culpable are those delusional Christian Zionists,
Christian Fundamentalists and politically "Right-wing" extremists who support the ideology in the hope of bringing
about the “End Times” so they can all go off in a “Rapture” to meet their deity.
I’m also well aware that only 40% of the world’s Jewish
population live in the Zionist colony in Palestine, 40% live in the U.S.A. and
the rest are scattered around the rest of the world, and who firmly believe that Zionists do not speak for them or their religion.
I have no issue, problem
with or animosity against those Jewish people who don’t support, or have rejected the vicious
ideology that is Zionism, I wish them all well, especially as their numbers are
growing and continue to grow.
Just for the record, so there cannot be any more confusion
about me, I’m an anti-Zionist, not an anti-Semite. If anyone doesn't understand the difference, I’d
be only too happy to explain it to them.
Nah...your the real deal alright. You merely believe like another noted above that your feigned intellectual reasonableness will give ya cover. Hence you fit here as well. And before ya even try. It's your posts and your words that betray your antisemitism. All of it. In general and specific.
so....I'll say it again.
"It took a while for you to finally come out from behind your facade of neutrality vice voiced sympathies for the dupes of Gaza. Led by the internationally recognized Hamas Terrorist group. You've been made. You deny their terrorist activities and you would counter with the same tired old crap spawn by terrorist supporters long before you were born.
Your a Hamas terrorist supporter alright and no doubt a closet jew hater.
No doubt in my mind.
All your counter attempts, and I might add, disingenuous attempts, to sound as if you were being reasonable. But you see that's your facade 'feigned reasonableness'.
Seen to many like you before.
Iow. your not new.. just another terrorist apologist perping his rhetoric."
Don't like my identification? Render a complaint to the Admin owner.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 08:21
Originally posted by Nick1986
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
LOL, relax. I’m well aware that just as All Germans weren’t
Nazis and not all Nazis were German, so too not all Jewish people are Zionists
and not all Zionists are Jewish.
Having said that, it is an inescapable fact those who actively
choose to live in the Zionist colony in Palestine either actively or passively
support the ideology of Zionism, which makes them culpable in the atrocities
and crimes against humanity carried out by their governments in their name;
they are a democracy, after all. I’m
often in contact with Breaking the Silence, B’Tselem and other principled
Jewish groups who value truth above Zionist propaganda and lies. It may be a cliche, but I do in fact, have many Jewish friends.
Equally culpable are those delusional Christian Zionists,
Christian Fundamentalists and politically "Right-wing" extremists who support the ideology in the hope of bringing
about the “End Times” so they can all go off in a “Rapture” to meet their deity.
I’m also well aware that only 40% of the world’s Jewish
population live in the Zionist colony in Palestine, 40% live in the U.S.A. and
the rest are scattered around the rest of the world, and who firmly believe that Zionists do not speak for them or their religion.
I have no issue, problem
with or animosity against those Jewish people who don’t support, or have rejected the vicious
ideology that is Zionism, I wish them all well, especially as their numbers are
growing and continue to grow.
Just for the record, so there cannot be any more confusion
about me, I’m an anti-Zionist, not an anti-Semite. If anyone doesn’t understand the difference, I’d
be only too happy to explain it to them.
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 07:00
Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
*Yes, I hate to listen same thing (only "democracy" in the middle east) and yes, they have democracy but they use it to choose fasist nationalist leaders as palestines choose Hamas.
Leaders of a nation should favour their own nation over others, I think except Iran and a few other countries, leaders of other countries are nationalist and it is certainly a good thing but choosing dangerous terrorists as leaders is a crime.
Originally posted by Ollios
*Killing civils with suicide attack or using high technological weapons are same. However I think you are thinking differently
The difference between them is their purposes, a criminal who kills people to flee is not the same as a police who tries to kill this criminal but mistakenly kills another person.
Originally posted by Ollios
It is same for Israel, they deserved what happened against them (both side). Don't you listen news. What did Israel do after UN decission about Palestine? New 3000 home. This completly mature behaviour like suitable for country which ruled by democracy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20585706
Untill Israel go back 1967 borders, every single Hammas attack is can't be called terrorist attack. It is a guerrilla tactic. When you face very strong enemy, you attack like Hamas. you don't make open field war. Palestines have right to protect their lands. Palestine is a country and it in war situation with Israel. That's why all civil lost means war crime not terrorist attack.
Hamas can attack one bomb/suicide attack in a week(?). However each built settler homes means a bomb which hits Palestine in every single moment. But you are ignoring reallity this and believe that Israel is peaceful. Maybe you could convince me if I didn't live in Middle East.
There is no black and white in here. Both of side is grey. But pushing just one side, this is so cruel. Name of the video "Please, Shut Up"
You are absolutely wrong, terrorist attacks are not the solution, do you support Kurds, if they use the same tactic in Turkey? You live in the Middle East and you know this problem doesn't exist just in Israel but all other lands where Islamists live, such as Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ...
Originally posted by Ollios
If I seem a Palestinians supporter. Don't missunderstood me. I just want all of you see Hamas and Israel are both of same and should change.
I see no reason that Israel is changed, fortunately, this is a powerful country and is supported by the most powerful countries in the world.
Hamas=terrorism. Islamist, fascist, genocidist, terrorism directed towards jews in Israel. And if you can not see that; after 65 years of war and terrorism directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense.
what will you do if I look at like you "Israel=terrorism. Judist, fascist, genocidist, terrorism directed muslims in Palestine. And if you can not see that after 65 years of war and directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense."
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
If your a supporter...strap on a bomb...go to Gaza and put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
this is real nonsence, you can do it same thing If you are a Israel Fan take a gun, go to Palestine, hunt hamas militans put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
I totally agree with you on the absurdity of this reasoning. If Big John next door wants Kate to give birth to a boy, does that mean he should fly to London, crash into Will and Kate's bedroom, kick Will off the bed, and then hump Kate? Can you say what the heck?
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Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 01:47
If you are a Israel Fan take a gun, go to Palestine, hunt hamas militants put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.Already been there and done that in two different conflicts. Your too late. And I can say unequivocally and without hesitation.A. I thoroughly enjoyed eradicating and assisting others in the eradication of Islamist, fascist, terrorists. And if were recalled would do it again without a second thought.B. It took a while for you to finally come out from behind your facade of neutrality vice voiced sympathies for the dupes of Gaza. Led by the internationally recognized Hamas Terrorist group. You've been made. You deny their terrorist activities and you would counter with the same tired old crap spewn by terrorist supporters long before you were born.Your a Hamas terrorist supporter alright and no doubt a closet jew hater. No doubt in my mind. All your counter attempts, and I might add, disingenuous attempts, to sound as if you were being reasonable.
But you see that's your facade 'feigned reasonableness'.
Seen to many like you before.
Iow. your not new.. just another terrorist apologist perping his rhetoric.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 23:16
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
Hamas=terrorism. Islamist, fascist, genocidist, terrorism directed towards jews in Israel. And if you can not see that; after 65 years of war and terrorism directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense.
what will you do if I look at like you "Israel=terrorism. Judist, fascist, genocidist, terrorism directed muslims in Palestine. And if you can not see that after 65 years of war and directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense."
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
If your a supporter...strap on a bomb...go to Gaza and put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
this is real nonsence, you can do it same thing If you are a Israel Fan take a gun, go to Palestine, hunt hamas militans put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
First of all there is no Hamas. If you use term Israel, you have to use term Palestine. If your the former..wake up. Both country is a sovereign state now
Secondly, I think I have to repeat again "Hamas can attack one bomb/suicide attack in a week(?). However each built settler homes means a bomb which hits Palestine in every single moment."
There is no terrorism in this case. There are two sovereign states which have selected goverments. This is war and if there is any civil lost(which were aimed before), that is war crime, not terrorism and of course they should judge because of it.
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Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 21:19
''If I seem a Palestinians supporter. Don't misunderstood me. I just want all of you see Hamas and Israel are both of same and should change.''
***/*****
Nonsense.
Hamas=terrorism. Islamist, fascist, genocidalist, terrorism; directed towards jews in Israel. And if you can not see that; after 65 years of war and terrorism directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense. Then your either duped like the Palestinians at large or a supporter of Hamas.
If your the former..wake up.
If your a supporter...strap on a bomb...go to Gaza and put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 04-Dec-2012 at 23:00
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 20:47
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I hope I was wrong, but I read this thing from your first post about the conflict between Israelis and Palestinains:
Originally posted by Challenger2
I have no sympathy with the Israelis, after all as they proudly boast to anyone who will listen, they are the only "democracy" in the middle east. They voted for those in power.
I think it shows you support this action against Israelis, doesn't it?
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I can also say I have no sympathy with the Gazans,
they voted for the terrorists group of Hamas in power, so they deserved
what happened against them.
*Yes, I hate to listen same thing (only "democracy" in the middle east) and yes, they have democracy but they use it to choose fasist nationalist leaders as palestines choose Hamas. *Killing civils with suicide attack or using high technological weapons are same. However I think you are thinking differently
I hope I was wrong, but I read this thing from your post
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I can also say I have no sympathy with the Gazans,
they voted for the terrorists group of Hamas in power, so they deserved
what happened against them.
It is same for Israel, they deserved what happened against them (both side). Don't you listen news. What did Israel do after UN decission about Palestine? New 3000 home. This completly mature behaviour like suitable for country which ruled by democracy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20585706
Untill Israel go back 1967 borders, every single Hammas attack is can't be called terrorist attack. It is a guerrilla tactic. When you face very strong enemy, you attack like Hamas. you don't make open field war. Palestines have right to protect their lands. Palestine is a country and it in war situation with Israel. That's why all civil lost means war crime not terrorist attack.
Hamas can attack one bomb/suicide attack in a week(?). However each built settler homes means a bomb which hits Palestine in every single moment. But you are ignoring reallity this and believe that Israel is peaceful. Maybe you could convince me if I didn't live in Middle East.
There is no black and white in here. Both of side is grey. But pushing just one side, this is so cruel. Name of the video "Please, Shut Up"
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
The fact is that the Islamists are the most
dangerous savage beings in the world, the region of the Middle East is
the central land of these bloodthirsty people, I believe the killing of
them is a great service to the humanity and we should thank to Israelis
who bravely fight against them.
Israel is bravely fighting agaist them by this way. Destroying Olive trees.
If Palestinians don't have any property(house, farm...), they can left their land easily.
If I seem a Palestinians supporter. Don't missunderstood me. I just want all of you see Hamas and Israel are both of same and should change.
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