Hello everyone!

I would love to start a discussion about fayli kurds. The questions are as follows:

1.Who are the Fayli kurds?

2.Which tribes do belong to these kurds?

3.Why are they called Fayli kurds?

Would be nice to discuss these subjects. I'll be happy to read the answers.

I am Fayli from Kermanshah.

Fayli are Shie and the name Fayli is the Arabised word Pahli, from Pahlavi, ie Parthians.

I to am a Fayli. From Khezel tribe from my fathers side and zuri from my mothers side.

I am trying to gather information about faylies and their tribes.

Well i have read izady's book, but i do not believe in his explanation about faylis origin. That we are parthians and originally come from east side of caspian see. I think the name fayli is a new phenomena, maybe as old as 300 or at highest 400 years old.

Thats not the issue, i hoped we could discuss fayli tribes. Their names and placement. I would need help with this. apriciate al help.

Khodahafez

Hello saiwan,

where are you from originally?

here is a little article I found:

Fayli is the name given by Iraqi Arabs to ethnic Kurds descended from immigrants from the Zagros Mountains of Iranian Kurdistan. These people settled mainly in the Baghdad region and in some of the southern cities such as Kut, Basra and Hilla. Over the centuries, Fayli Kurds successfully took on a central role in the commercial, cultural, social and political life of Iraq. Their insistence on retaining their Kurdish identity, their Shi'ite rituals and their predominant adherence to a liberal political agenda led to frequent discrimination by successive Iraqi regimes during the 20th Century.

The Fayli Kurds suffered their worst treatment, however, under the regime of Saddam Hussein. On Monday 7th April 1980, the most prominent figures among the Fayli business community were invited to a 'meeting' at the Baghdad Chamber of Commerce by the Ba'athist regime.

• Following this, tens of thousands of Fayli Kurds were forced from their homes and expelled into Iran. Most were allowed to take nothing with them. Their property was confiscated and they were stripped of all identity documents.

• From most families, the younger males were detained in custody. Nothing has been heard of the fate of these young men for over twenty years.

http://www.indict.org.uk/crimedetails.php?crime=Kurds - http://www.indict.org.uk/crimedetails.php?crime=Kurds

Hi Alborz!

I myself was born in Baghdad.

My forefathers migrated to Baghdad from pushte-kuh area (Ilam). Exactly when? I have no idea. But it is at least a century ago.

My agenda with this topic is to find as much information about fayli kurds (their tribes, culture, history) as possible and create a legitimate hompage dedicated to fayli kurds. I have found one page that most people refer to but it is not adequate. I havent found any page about fayli tribes. 

So pls help me with this task

I know of many who lost everything when they were deported by the baathists.. all of their property and possessions were seized and they were left destitute.

I don't know what tribe we are originally from because we are too long urbanised, but I know tehre were Lori and Fayli migrations to Kermanshah from the last 4-5 centuries and it is without doubt we have a strong lineage from both.

Well my family got deported at 1980. Fled to Syria, from there to Iran (Krermashan). And one last jump to Tehran.

Dear mr Zagros yopu seem to have a vast knowledge about many topics as i haveread your comments on slot of subjects. If you live in iran do u know any book about kurdish tribes that u could recommend?

Thank you. I don't live in Iran, I am in the UK.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to get objective information on Kurdish history because many governments, regional and alien, have variously used the Kurds to manipulate for almost two centuries now.

If you can read Farsi, I suggest Sharaf Nameh, written 400 years ago in the autonomous Ottoman Kurdish emirates by one of the emirs, it will not be 100% historically accurate, but it will tell of significant events, and of legends and other things to do with Kurdish history.

i thinkt he name Pahli origin is the most likely.  because teh middle iranian languages (of the times of the Parthians and Sassanians) were more similar to some modern Kurdish languages than modern Parsi, and those languages were called "Pahlavi", there was the Parthian dialect and the Persian dialect. 

i have heard that the name fauli IS mentioned in Sharafname so i'll buy a copy of it and start reading.

And yes you are right about the risk of disinformation or better yet lack of information thanks to those who govern our country. After all it is the conqueror who writes down history in their own liking.

Izady also mentions that fayli kurds, like Lak and Lurs are getting "persified", that they are loosing the battle of cultures. Sure it can be true when you look at the extent of intermerrige between fayli kurds and persian. That most fayli rather speaks in arabic or farsi with each other which is so tragic. The kurds in turkey fought and still fight for their cultural right, the faylis on other hand seem to be forgetfull of what they are.

I myself have very bad experiences with the kind of fayli who speaks foregin languages rather than their own, the reasons can be:

Its good to know arabic and speak it, because the language of paradise is arabic.     Funny dont you think?

Well learn arabic or whatever language you want, but why forget your own language. I have cousins that cant speak kurdish, i cant communicate with them except by using a foreign language. Isn't that a shame?

Welcome Saiwan. I'm Kurdish too. From Sna (Sanandaj, Iran).

Yeah I agree with you that, Fayli Kurds are loosing their Heritage and language. I have many Fayli Kurd friends, some speak Persian others Arabic, but NO ONE speak Kurdish It's really a shame.

Where in Sweden do you live?

hello Cent!

In Karlstad. You see my sorani brother, our problem is that no one cares anymore. Even those of our father who were peshmarga dont care anymore.

Some peple think that if they are muslim they must speak arabic, or be like arabs. No other people does this except ours.

Well i sepak kurdish, but i never forget how my sorani brothers denied me as a kurd, just because they didn understand my dialect. So you see i am fayli, i am shia and i am what you can call nationalist (Despite the fact that i have no nation ). When i speak with my own "people" and say they have to teach their children kurdish first and any other language later, you know what they call me?! An extremist. Funny ha?

So i think that we have to make the youth intrested in history. To make it popular we have to beautify the history we are telling as the scandinavians do with their "noble" vikings. hah

To build up peoples awareness we have to address the fayli issue on the net, tv, news , or what ever. Nobody cares about us, so we have to do something before it is too late. So we have to help ourselfs.  

You can find many, many pages on internet about kurds in general, but what about faylis? The onlu thing you learn about them is:

1.They are shia kurds.

2.They live in Iraq.

But what about ilam, kermashan, etc..?

So i have decided to put the faylis on the map, at least on the NET. So i need info, and Mr Zagros has already helped me by naming sharafaname. Thx again.

Just remember we are all kurds. Sorani is not better than kermanji. Gorani is not better than faili. We have to act as one, stand firm and dont let our enemies divide us.

My dad experienced the same problem.

Laks are wild, they do everything for their own interest, many of them have become so rich from contraband, that they don't know how to spend their money, the reason they are becomming Persified is their own fault, they move to the city and forget themselves, but I do not think the langauge will die out, there are many rural ones still,  Kermanshahi can communicate with them, their language is similar to our dialect.

As for Lurs, they are not Kurds and don't call themselves Kurds, and again same thing as Laks, the ones who moved to the cities became Persified and the rural ones still speak Lori, their language is 80% intelligible with Persian anyway.

Also the Goranis are losing their language, it is a real shame because their language is a living piece of history, it is still in the middle Iranian style, which was lost almost everywhere else, except with the Dimili/Zazaki in Turkey and Sangesari Persians.  The Hawramani Gorani is being replaced by Sorani.

As i have learned Lurs say thats kurds are descendents of the lurs. Dont know if it is true, but its the same problem as: Did the chicken came first or the egg.

It's true that many have been persified because of their migration to the citys, but it is their own fault. They must take the responcibility and teach their children the language and cultur.

As i said before my grandfathers migrated from iran at least a century ago, but behold, i can speak fayli, i can communicate with other faylis without any problem. Thats thanks to my father and his father and his grandfather, etc.

We must intentionally get hold of our language and teach it to our children.

 It would be a shame that after so long, get assimilated by subordinate cultures, just because they are the ruling authority at the moment.

and bakhtiaris?

We have one problem here. If you go to ilam and say they are faylies they will most probably laugh at you, thay say nope we are ali sharwan, malek shah, ....

Or just simply kurd. That will make my work difficult

OOOOO and one more thing Mr. Zagros.

Do you really believe that we can say fayli are parthenons just by playing with words?

So how come kurds kan be linked to medes? There is no similarities in the name what so ever. And there is no historical continuety in the usage of fayli. It just happens to come up, from no where!!

"Well i sepak kurdish, but i never forget how my sorani brothers denied me as a kurd, just because they didn understand my dialect. So you see i am fayli, i am shia and i am what you can call nationalist"

I'm sorry for that. Just ignore that. They're ignorant about Kurdish people.

Yes Mr. Cent i know.

But i was just a kid when they mobbed me

U see i am struggling for the kurds, not faylis or gorani or sorani, but for the kurds.

We are all brothers. And yes there are always some ignorant persons. Thats the case for all nationaleties. I hope someday in the near future we will have or beloved kurdistan freed from the enemies and be neighbors without any trubble.

When they got Ocalan i was in every demonstration at Stockholm. why?

It didnt have anything to do with ilam or other faylis who live in iraq! I did because he is struggling for our brothers in the north. If my brother gets in troubble i'll help

Thats the way my brother. Thats the way.

Long live kurdistan and the people of kurdistan.

Bakhtiaris are a branch of Lors.

The name Kurd is older than the current ethnocultural Kurdish people, as has been discussed in other forums, the name has its origins from Sumerian times, the Mede nomads who went to the highlands assumed the role of the old Kurds by assimilating them and changing the language and culture. Kurds and Lors can be linked through the Medes.

Kurds in Ilam are Fayli for sure, they can be classed by their language.  also in kermanshah, people don't say they are Fayli or this or that, either Kurd, Lak, Lor or Persian.

Laks are supposed to be a mix of Lori and Kurd.

Is the facts from the book of izady?

Actually in an article mr izady states that no nomadic people can assimilate an urban/existing civilization, in effect they themselfes get assimilated.i'll find the article and post the link to you.

well the old ladies wear atia. U know that they have all the time, sure it is as black as the night. But they dress in all kind of colors otherwise.

If they wear black it's because some near relative has died, or it's ashura.

I'm not expert on this, have visited ilam 6 times till i was 13. Everything else i know, i have been told or read.

Mr. Zagros i actually dont know what to say if u like i can ask my father about this subject.

Mr. prsn4life: Yes they are allowed to learn kurdi, and speak it.

they (the baathists) did the same thing to Persians in Iraq only 9 years before that (?) as retaliation against Iran for siezing back the 3 islands in Persian gulf from the British.

and regarding Faylis forgetting their language.

well it basically has to do with the individuals fault. one has to preserve his or her heritage the best he or she can before being lost forever due to modernization.

Man not only kurds. Persians, assyrians, turkmen, arabs, ....

Everyone that didnt think like him, or was against him. We got expelled because of our economic power in baghdad. The same thing the nazis did about the jews. They wanted to seize their property, they needed the money, after all they were going to start a war. Saddam copied the idea.

And yes u are right, it is the individuals own fault, i totally agree.

I believe you got expelled not just for economics, but because of the Saddam regime's racism.

Pan-Arabism and other pan- thing ultra-nationalisms always lead to tragedies like this. A prime example was Germany. Also Serbia. and incase of our region; Iraq under the Baathists.

Also true Mr Alborz.

A note for my brother Mr Zagros.

My dear kurdish brother, i have a little complaint. You see as i have noticed u call uself iranian, and are supposedly proud of the "iranian" heritage. But shouldnt we call ourselfs kurds not iraninans? I live in sweden right now, i havent start to call my self for a swede for that

Misunderstand me in a right way Mr Zagros. Do not forget what they did to the kurds during the times of Khomeini. He declared a fatwa, where it allowed the people to kill kurds and be called for maryrs.

Sure we can speak kurdish down there, but we are not allowed to handle our own affairs. If i lived in iran i would never have the opportunity to go to the university, because i am no iraninan, i am arab Despite the fact that my grandparents and some of my aunts and uncles have iraninan citizenship. But here in europe i have gone to university and am an engeenier. My muslim brothers down there wouldnt ever give me that oppurtunity, but i got that oppurtunity here in sweden.

So pls, we should allways refer to ourselfs as kurds, not iranians or iraqis. As i told u before i was born in bagdad, but i would never ever be able to call my self iraqi. I am a kurd from the occupied eastern side of kurdistan, that is what i tell all the people here in sweden.

Pls do not get upset, because i am just trying to view my point.

So if u r born in afghanistan u should call urself iranian? Or afghani?

That is only the language tree nothing else.

Aaahhh, i understand now. U never said that u were of "mixed" origin. But i understand now. I am sorry if i have offended u in any way.

Boakhsham bra.

you foreign kurds kind of disgust me. i consider you people brothers, but you obviously do not give a sh*t about your persian brothers, your tajik brothers, your gilaki brothers, your talyhs brothers, your balouchi brothers, etc...

you think you are the only ones oppressed by this mullah regime! think again my brothers, think again!

You propogate for ur people all the time. Is it so wrong of me to do the same? You see things in a way, i see it in another way.

I belive in freedome. I believe in the right of selfrule. I believe in the equality of mankind. And no, kurds and persians are not the same but different tribes. You are abosolutly the first to say so Zagros. Pls refer to the info u have found so i can check it out. thx.

What i am saying is this, till i have Kurdistan, those who occupie my country are invaders and will be seen as the enemy, it's just a natural reaction. As fast as there is a kurdistan, u persians will be my dearest brothers.

Try to understand my point of view. I fully understand ur view. But try to understand mine. Dont get angry, we are just discussing.

saiwan, how long did you live in Iran?

It is clearly obvious you did not live there long. You have Iran all wrong. You are like cent, both never lived in Iran long enough, yet you think Iran is still the same 27 years ago. You should seriously update your info on Iran. And I'm not talking about with all the propaganda you hear in Sweden or else where in the Iran-hating west. One thing I encourage you to do is visit Iran and live there for some years. You should be aware that you sound like a white guy, who has never been to Iran, saying Iran is all desert.

also I want these claims about kurds and persians being so different to end once and for all.

I give you and cent 2 -3 weeks, hell I give you both 2 months to come up with how kurds and persians are different. Then I will along with the rest of my Iranian compatriots here will show you the similarities.

and we will correct anyone from making any false propaganda if one is foolish enough to make. deal???

Provent me with ur proofs mr and i will happily put forward mine.

I lived there enough. U critices the turks but are blind about ur own faults. U r no different than the turks.

I have a question for you?

Which ppl celebrated newroz for the first time? Who was baba Taher? Which etnicity did he have? Who was karim khane Zand? Who was Cyaxares?

"I give you and cent 2 -3 weeks, hell I give you both 2 months to come up with how kurds and persians are different. Then I will along with the rest of my Iranian compatriots here will show you the similarities."

What are you talking about? I know Kurds and Persians are closely related. Still, they have different languages, slighty different culture (just look at our clothes and music, and compare it with yours).

Stop refering me as a bad person who knows nothing about Iran. Do I say the same about you? I just say what I've experienced and what I know.

Stop comparing me with others also.

By the way. Stop saying "we are brothers", I know that we are brothers. But Kurds have heard that 1000 times, and then they get betrayed.

My father was a Peshmerga for 15 years. He fought against the Shah and Mullahs. For what? Is it not for a Kurdish state? How many shehids haven't Kurds lost for the cause? And now your trying to say that we shouldn't try. That's like spitting on my father and my family and thousands of shehids.

"What are you talking about? I know Kurds and Persians are closely related. Still, they have different languages, slighty different culture (just look at our clothes and music, and compare it with yours)."

Actually, rural Persian clothes are pretty much exactly the same, shalware jaafi, coat but with different hats and the female dresses are all bright and colourful too. As for music, traditional Persian uses exact same instruments but in a more fluid and softer style, but the base rythms are just varients of each other.

jaaf? A kurdish tribe.

U can find them even in iraq.

Cent, i am with you. My uncle (mothers brother) was caught by the baathis when he was back from the mountains. We have never seen him after that. Have no idea what haapened to him.

And may Peshmarga live for ever, those who give their lives for a grater cause. And the shahids do live for ever, and we should never forget about them.

By the way zagros, are u going to lock this one too?

Let the kurd speak up for once, let him defend himself.

zagros, understand me right. The issue is not if the kurds and persians are very close togather. The issue is about selfrule.

The ppl in norway, sweden, denmark and island are identioc, but still they have their own countries. The issue is about selfrule, to be able to govern oneself. That is the issue.

Why be part of something thats not good for u? Its my own land, i want to be able to govern it. Thats it, that is the issue.

and please tell me, how do kurds think you are going to seperate? war?

and norway, sweden, and denmark have always been seperate countries. i dont know what your talking about.

i am not an iraqi kurd! Is it so difficult for u to understand? I am born in bagdad, my parents to, their fathers and mothers too, but those before them are from iran. I still have relatives in ilam.

As i said, in iran i am an iraqi, in iraq i am an irani. With all respect u r not much different from those kids who told me i am arab malakh khor

ehem, always? norway separated in 18.. something. Finland was a part of sweden for 3-400 years ago. Poland was part of sweden before. Denmark controlled parts of sweden 2-300 years ago.

Dont talk without knowin the facts. It is embaressing.

I live in sweden remember?

pls read what i have written before!!!!!

i thought you were iraqi because you said you were born in iraq, that makes you an iraqi citizen by law. i didnt know that your grandparents were from iran.

by international law, you are an iraqi citizen.

 do you honestly believe that the people of denmark, sweden, poland, norway, etc... are all the same people?

once again i live with these ppl. Well actually i am swedish then.

 What are u? An american? Why are waisting my time, when i want to talk with persians?

I am talking about kurds/persians , ethnicity. For God sake.,

cent, are you a child? your father is/was a person who took up a gun and started shooting to kill people. and you come here with childish excuses and complain your phone is bugged??? are u not mature enough to understand the situation. I consider my parents to be honourable freedom fighters, why? because they never took up guns and killed people. they never betrayed their country for terrorism and fascism of a group next door. PKK was made by soviets, why? because all who are PKK are bunch of usefull tools. they are all idiots. they are chauvinistic pan-kurdish dogs, and its ironic they complain against other peoples being chauvinist.

you are definitly a PKK. a marxist PKK. marxist basically meaning a tool. once u get worn out, you will get thrown out.

my Iranian friends these guys are like the Basijis and MKO.

when they were born they all were brainwashed by their parents, taught them their ideologies. The MKO children who are born in Iraq are bombarded with propaganda, just like how Basiji kids are. same with PKK marxists. all the same.

and you wonder why we have kids like cent who come here and repeat the same old bullsh*t you hear from PKK terrorists and their excuses. its not his fault, he is been taught lies since his birth.

you can sight his backwardness and ignorace, he openly says he would go and fight (in Iran for his "kurds"): basically kill people. poor child doesnt know what war is.  He has been brainwashed with an ideology, an Ideology which is alien and moronic to not only our nation, but to the whole region. People like PKK have ruined the lives of Kurds who they say they fight for. those idiot pan-kurds.

so cent,  I will give you 2 months, you and your friend will introduce us some actual differences between persians and kurds. lets make it easy for you, consider kurds of JUST iran.

You have two months. I wont be reading your comments anymore untill I see your/and your friend's essay. with sources.

2 months.

then, we Iranians will introduce to you (probably for the first time) about how we are similar.

i am an iranian, and because i have lived most of my life in the USA, and because i have become integrated into the USA, i am an iranian american.

i am proud to be an iranian american, i am proud of my new country, as well as my homeland. i am proud to be an american, proud to be an iranian.

you my brother, are not proud to be anything but a kurd, while i on the other hand, and proud to be an iranian, which means i am not only proud of persians, i am proud of everyother iranian, no matter what their ethnicity is.

you seem very selfish to me.

and im sorry you and thousands of others died, but did all of them really die for kurdistan? dont you think that some may have just come from poor families who needed the money, or have just been brain washed?

have you ever heard of the story in israel, where the terrorists put bombs on a mentally ill child, and told him to go blow himself up when he got close to the israeli soldiers?

he didnt know what or why he was doing it.

i see it this way, if the kurds of iran really and truly wanted independence, they would have put up a resistance on par with the chechans. the chechans fought the second strongest country in the world for ten years! russia is a ruthless country, yet the chechens fought so hard that now today, the majority of the males are dead!

now that is passion, do kurds have that passion? have kurds put up a resistence like that against iran, iraq, syria, or turkey? the one in turkey comes close, but what about the rest of kurdistan?

I do agree with my brother Cent.

How hard u try u will never be able to describe the beuty of a flower for a blind man, he cant simply understand.

Alborz, you shouldn't talk to other members like that, Cent is a good guy, you don't know anything about him or his dad, so you should reserve judgement. I am saying this as a fellow member and not as a mod - I am going to ask others to look at this thread and pass judgement on the behaviour of those involved. 

In the mean time i would suggest calm on all sides otherwise warnings/bans will, as the his eminence Komnenos stated,  be issued, the rules govern all.

You are so right komnenos. That way no one will learn anything.

When the oppiste party cant argue anymore, then he just have to use his fists.

Wassalam

I dont want to go into discussion but exspecially the Kurds from sweden are the most rational pro-Kurds ive ever seen. I want to know how it comes?

Look here, a very interesting to read topic:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2836&KW=katun30&PN=0&TPN=7 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2836& ;KW=katun30&PN=0&TPN=7

By this i will conclude what i have learned:

I am a fayli, as i said in the beginning it is sad that most faylis doesnt care about kurd and kurdishness. That they are passiv and dont do anything.

Mr zagros, may prove my point. He even closes down each forum that i am in and discuss in. And probably he will kick me now when he sees this one. Sad really.

I do agree. It is always like this when it comes to kurdish question, not only in here even in the media. But u must understand at least this thing:

I can reason with a person who cant be reasonably. I can be civilized but when i see it doesnt work? ......

If you see it doesn't work you have to ignore the insulter and report it to the moderators. But you should in no case act like him/her. This is something i have learned in Germany.

Please.. I closed ONE, and that was because it was way off topic... You can discuss this stuff all you like in the thread you made in current affairs, the other forums are not political, so I suggest you get over yourself, and stop blaming Mr Zagros for all of the injustices of the forum,  berakem.

and it was also Iranian that first captured the horror of halabje and beamed it across the world, largely to ignorance and indifference tot he people from whom you claim support today, the Americans, who merely described the incident as bad publicity for Saddam.

Iran took Kurdish refugees with open arms from the Iran / Iraq war and the 1991 war, quite strange for a society which you claim hates Kurds, no?

Sad to say but it seems that your dad has passed on so much of his bitterness to you. People like him were used by the Soviets and that is even more sad"

What? Kurds have been trying to get separated from these countries for 100 years. Did you see the Kurds from the 60's say: Nah, we shouldn't try to get free... No, Kurds have since then tryed, and we will try until something happends, understand?

There's a huge different between a ideologi and FREEDOM, so don't compare us with sovjet.

I'm sorry Zagros, but I was under the impression that Iranians have been enslaving Kurds for centuries!!! We have been using them as our slaves. we take their children, women, men, and elderly and enforce them to do hard manual labour. We are planning to use our kurdish slaves to build the biggest pyramid in the world, and the only reason we took the Kurds from Iraq as refugees and welcomed them with open arms saving them from the Saddam unslaught was to enslave them inorder for them to do our dirty work. Thats how much we hate kurds, specially when they speak out against their masters: Persians. ooh we persians are the biggest slavers of kurds. We should leave those kurds alone, we are bad.

am I correct Zagros jan? did I leave anything out?

Oh, your so funny...

"The more funny thing is that you deny all logical sense the other try to enlighten you strictly and without any logical background. Sorry to say that but i think you are a bit close minded."

What are you talking about? I'm open to a federal Iran.

But hey, I don't accuse you for not understanding.

LOL Infact some of iranians have interesting ideas, they think kurds at turkey should be free, but at iran they are only iranians.

Anyway, I think at both country a referendum should be made, Then we can learn If kurds want to stay with turkey or iran.

"Anyway, I think at both country a referendum should be made, Then we can learn If kurds want to stay with turkey or iran."

The best idea I've heard so far in months here at Allempires.

Nice Mortaza, I completely agree.

"The more funny thing is that you deny all logical sense the other try to enlighten you strictly and without any logical background. Sorry to say that but i think you are a bit close minded."

Can you show me where I'm denying all logical sense?

no, i dont think kurds in turkey should be free. i have said that in the kurdistan thread. i just said that they need more rights.

i said that they ened to live in the societies that they are living in now.

"no, i dont think kurds in turkey should be free. i have said that in the kurdistan thread. i just said that they need more rights.

i said that they ened to live in the societies that they are living in now."

Why don't you think that Kurds in turkey should be free? Is it becuase if the Kurds in Turkey get free, then the Kurds in Iran will do the same? It's easy to see how some people work.

Lets say that Kurds gets to vote and they want to get separated from Iran, would you allow that prsn4life? Just a simple question. Yes or no?

OK, what is this? 

Prsn4life, you are a propaganda artist's dream come true, you should really be careful how you word your posts or people will take advantage.

It is not like Kurds are slaves like those of 19th century America, to be set "free"...  Yes and there is a reason Saiwan, gyanem, that most Fayli/Kermanshahi, Southern Kurds and Lors are not separatists - they have not been exposed to the same nationalist brainwashing as you.  as for me, I have not been manipulated by any nationalist propaganda, everything I know I have learned by reading myself and deciding for myself. 

The farthest I would ever go with any region of Iran would be autonomy over culture and perhaps economic and taxation issues to make regions accountable to their elected officials.

They don't need to be land-locked with this kind of map:

No, this is not what you think. You just like seeing Kurds and Iranians divided to help the Turkish cause so you have turned in to Kurd separatist now to trigger that.

Yeah true, If there is a kurdistan both at turkish and iranian land, we would become ally with them, so what you can become ally with them too.  I dont know why do you think, we turks are something like anti-iranian.

remember I also said, Turkey kurds should also choose.

Dont you think kurds at iran wont vote for independence? I have not much suspect about Turkey side.

Let alone having Kurds "freed". Turkey can start by stopping to force the Kurds to deny their mere existence and calling themselves "mountain Turks"

It is an old tale, nothing more. You should update your knowledge.

yea you are right, i didnt type that very well. but what i meant was independent, not that kurds need to be "freed" like they are slaves or something.

Goal has been achieved? What to cause anymosity?

Your lies are baseless.  Everything you say about Persians has been pure lies and propaganda.  If they hold us in so much disdain and ridicule why do they even learn to sing in Kurdish? Why do Persian musicians go to Iraqi Kurdistan and play with and in Kurdish bands? Why do Persian artists sing songs about the Kurds and some of them even sing in Kurdish?

Why did the Iranian exiles in 1981 in their Vienna Republican conference all get up and cheer the Kurdish dancers and band at the end?

Kha-ene.

Zagros: ya toed ke kha-eneged. To aslan kurd nied, to farsed.

You are not a kurd Zagros, u r a persian. You have decided that u r a persian. You dont feel anything about kurdishness. U r like the trojan horse. Ppl like u infest us with the disease of weekness. U have betrayed ur father and his fahter before him, so dont call me Khaen. U love ur enemy, i dont. When pasdaran killed kurdish peshmarga, what about that?

And u r not a fayli-kurd u r a fars born in kemanshah. Say many salams to ur father from me. And ask him why he felt betrayed by the persians. And u never told us. Why are u ashamed? Don u want the fars in this forum read it? U might get enemies? Come on. Tell us what was the fact that made ur father turn away from fars.

To donya chawaled kor kerdegas. To hichwakht zejr nakishida. To nazaned maani badbakhti chasa. To bayad chawaled waz bekayed wa waqeiat bined.

I would love too love persians, arabs and turks. It would be a dream to not hate anymore. That for once not think of enemies but think of friends. That would be a dream. To achieve that i, we, the KURDS, need our country, freedom. Redicule what i say how much u want, i really dont care. I will never be able to make u understand. U have never experienced the pain of loosing ppl whome u love. Ur family have never had to pay the bullet that they killed ur uncle with. U have never had a father who had to sit in the jail because of his wish for freedom. When u have experienced the pain, the loss of a loved one then maybe u will understand. These persians have erased our history, the history of iran begins with the persians. It doesnt matter if it is a mulla who rules or a shah. They do what they can to erase our history.

That way they can say they "own" the earth they are living on now, they have been first, so they will have the right to own it also. U cant find any major history books on kurds. why? Were we not there? Didnt our forfathers made their empires? Wasnt they the first to use agriculture? I suppose not, we the KURDS have always been backward. We simply cant have the will of our own, we must be ruled. That is how persians think of the subject. They love to talk about persian empires. In effect one empire hakamaneshian. Iran has been ruled by many. Tell that to a persian, he will be angry!!!!!

the empires that have come and gone in the region has always used the kurds for their courage to keep the borders free from invaders. We have always been there, the warriors that are not scared of anything. Our loyality has become our nemesis. Now after all we have done for the area, we have nothing for ourselfes.

Ppl are prud about their history. Take the turks for example. Their forefathers invaded middled aeast, killed as many as the could, they made new rivers of ppls blood, and that they are proud of. Or arabs, they killed also as many under the pretex that they wante to turn ppl into the new religion (Islam says u are not allowed to make ppl to become muslims by force). They killed and killed. And they are so proud of it.

What have the kurd done? We havent murdered in the way we should have done! We did not betray our allies! And in the present day we dont bomb ourselfes and kill civilians. We do not hijack airplanes and blow it up! Is that why we will never have our country? Because we are noble, and dont kill innocent ppl?

Zagros, the kurds want a country for themselfs, to be able to rule themselfes. We are not sheeps, and dont need to be rueld by others. Is it so hard to understand? Why do we HAVE to be part of IRAN or IRAQ or TURKEY when we can have our country? Are we not able to do that? Kurdistan will become a reality, whether u like it or not. And when there is Kurdistan we dont have to call us iranians or iraki, we will kaal us kurds, plain and simple. 

But i suppose u dont want that happen. Why be free and  think for oneself when other ppl can think for us! Wright?

"Zagros, the kurds want a country for themselfs, to be able to rule themselfes. We are not sheeps, and dont need to be rueld by others. Is it so hard to understand? Why do we HAVE to be part of IRAN or IRAQ or TURKEY when we can have our country? Are we not able to do that? Kurdistan will become a reality, whether u like it or not. And when there is Kurdistan we dont have to call us iranians or iraki, we will kaal us kurds, plain and simple."

I totally agree.

Wow, you would make a good writer for the PKK website, sahme you can't speak their language though.

My Dad doesn't feel "betrayed" by Persians, stop making up bull---- about things you cannot possibly know, I have said that he has lost hope in Iran because of the Islamists, and he sees hope in Kurdistan, but he is old and being too impatient.

My dad's best friend is a Tork and he has and has had many Persian friends, you know race is not an issue among most Iranians, because unlike you, they are not RACIST.

And who are you to say I am not Kurd?  AT LEAST I WAS BORN IN A PART OF KURDISTAN,  you are Iraqi by all definitions and your knowledge and slander against Iran is a sure sign that you have been brainwashed.

I am not Fars, Kurd, Tork or Lur, I am Iranian - live with it - after you wrote your Fayli there, it just sounds like rural Persian, real Kurdish, like Kermanshahi is not intelligible by Parsi speakers -

I probably have Fayli background, I also have Lori and Persian. My country is Iran, land of all of these tribes.

You are very right, you can't be a kha-en, because you are Iraqi, you took refuge in Iran from Saddam and now you stab your hosts in the back, VERY noble behvaiour.

"Wow, you would make a good writer for the PKK website, sahme you can't speak their language though."

Dialect