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Pretorian
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fayli kurds
    Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 16:00

Hello everyone!

I would love to start a discussion about fayli kurds. The questions are as follows:

1.Who are the Fayli kurds?

2.Which tribes do belong to these kurds?

3.Why are they called Fayli kurds?

 

Would be nice to discuss these subjects. I'll be happy to read the answers.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 16:16
You look like Cent 
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 17:04

I am Fayli from Kermanshah.

Fayli are Shie and the name Fayli is the Arabised word Pahli, from Pahlavi, ie Parthians.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 04:25

I to am a Fayli. From Khezel tribe from my fathers side and zuri from my mothers side.

I am trying to gather information about faylies and their tribes.

 

Well i have read izady's book, but i do not believe in his explanation about faylis origin. That we are parthians and originally come from east side of caspian see. I think the name fayli is a new phenomena, maybe as old as 300 or at highest 400 years old.

 

Thats not the issue, i hoped we could discuss fayli tribes. Their names and placement. I would need help with this. apriciate al help.

 

Khodahafez

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 05:31

Hello saiwan,

where are you from originally?

here is a little article I found:

The Fayli Kurds
April 1980
 

Fayli is the name given by Iraqi Arabs to ethnic Kurds descended from immigrants from the Zagros Mountains of Iranian Kurdistan. These people settled mainly in the Baghdad region and in some of the southern cities such as Kut, Basra and Hilla. Over the centuries, Fayli Kurds successfully took on a central role in the commercial, cultural, social and political life of Iraq. Their insistence on retaining their Kurdish identity, their Shi'ite rituals and their predominant adherence to a liberal political agenda led to frequent discrimination by successive Iraqi regimes during the 20th Century.

The Fayli Kurds suffered their worst treatment, however, under the regime of Saddam Hussein. On Monday 7th April 1980, the most prominent figures among the Fayli business community were invited to a 'meeting' at the Baghdad Chamber of Commerce by the Ba'athist regime.

  • At the 'meeting' they were detained and deported to the Iranian border. Their families were soon deported as well.
  • Following this, tens of thousands of Fayli Kurds were forced from their homes and expelled into Iran. Most were allowed to take nothing with them. Their property was confiscated and they were stripped of all identity documents.
  • From most families, the younger males were detained in custody. Nothing has been heard of the fate of these young men for over twenty years.

http://www.indict.org.uk/crimedetails.php?crime=Kurds



Edited by Alborz
"Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 07:36

Hi Alborz!

I myself was born in Baghdad.

My forefathers migrated to Baghdad from pushte-kuh area (Ilam). Exactly when? I have no idea. But it is at least a century ago.

My agenda with this topic is to find as much information about fayli kurds (their tribes, culture, history) as possible and create a legitimate hompage dedicated to fayli kurds. I have found one page that most people refer to but it is not adequate. I havent found any page about fayli tribes. 

So pls help me with this task

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 07:58

I know of many who lost everything when they were deported by the baathists.. all of their property and possessions were seized and they were left destitute.

I don't know what tribe we are originally from because we are too long urbanised, but I know tehre were Lori and Fayli migrations to Kermanshah from the last 4-5 centuries and it is without doubt we have a strong lineage from both.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 08:03

Well my family got deported at 1980. Fled to Syria, from there to Iran (Krermashan). And one last jump to Tehran.

Dear mr Zagros yopu seem to have a vast knowledge about many topics as i haveread your comments on slot of subjects. If you live in iran do u know any book about kurdish tribes that u could recommend?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 10:28

Thank you. I don't live in Iran, I am in the UK.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to get objective information on Kurdish history because many governments, regional and alien, have variously used the Kurds to manipulate for almost two centuries now.

If you can read Farsi, I suggest Sharaf Nameh, written 400 years ago in the autonomous Ottoman Kurdish emirates by one of the emirs, it will not be 100% historically accurate, but it will tell of significant events, and of legends and other things to do with Kurdish history.

i thinkt he name Pahli origin is the most likely.  because teh middle iranian languages (of the times of the Parthians and Sassanians) were more similar to some modern Kurdish languages than modern Parsi, and those languages were called "Pahlavi", there was the Parthian dialect and the Persian dialect. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 11:03

i have heard that the name fauli IS mentioned in Sharafname so i'll buy a copy of it and start reading.

And yes you are right about the risk of disinformation or better yet lack of information thanks to those who govern our country. After all it is the conqueror who writes down history in their own liking.

Izady also mentions that fayli kurds, like Lak and Lurs are getting "persified", that they are loosing the battle of cultures. Sure it can be true when you look at the extent of intermerrige between fayli kurds and persian. That most fayli rather speaks in arabic or farsi with each other which is so tragic. The kurds in turkey fought and still fight for their cultural right, the faylis on other hand seem to be forgetfull of what they are.

I myself have very bad experiences with the kind of fayli who speaks foregin languages rather than their own, the reasons can be:

Its good to know arabic and speak it, because the language of paradise is arabic.     Funny dont you think?

Well learn arabic or whatever language you want, but why forget your own language. I have cousins that cant speak kurdish, i cant communicate with them except by using a foreign language. Isn't that a shame?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 11:25

Welcome Saiwan. I'm Kurdish too. From Sna (Sanandaj, Iran).

Yeah I agree with you that, Fayli Kurds are loosing their Heritage and language. I have many Fayli Kurd friends, some speak Persian others Arabic, but NO ONE speak Kurdish It's really a shame.

Where in Sweden do you live?

They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 11:38

hello Cent!

In Karlstad. You see my sorani brother, our problem is that no one cares anymore. Even those of our father who were peshmarga dont care anymore.

Some peple think that if they are muslim they must speak arabic, or be like arabs. No other people does this except ours.

Well i sepak kurdish, but i never forget how my sorani brothers denied me as a kurd, just because they didn understand my dialect. So you see i am fayli, i am shia and i am what you can call nationalist (Despite the fact that i have no nation ). When i speak with my own "people" and say they have to teach their children kurdish first and any other language later, you know what they call me?! An extremist. Funny ha?

So i think that we have to make the youth intrested in history. To make it popular we have to beautify the history we are telling as the scandinavians do with their "noble" vikings. hah

To build up peoples awareness we have to address the fayli issue on the net, tv, news , or what ever. Nobody cares about us, so we have to do something before it is too late. So we have to help ourselfs.  

You can find many, many pages on internet about kurds in general, but what about faylis? The onlu thing you learn about them is:

1.They are shia kurds.

2.They live in Iraq.

But what about ilam, kermashan, etc..?

So i have decided to put the faylis on the map, at least on the NET. So i need info, and Mr Zagros has already helped me by naming sharafaname. Thx again.

Just remember we are all kurds. Sorani is not better than kermanji. Gorani is not better than faili. We have to act as one, stand firm and dont let our enemies divide us.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 11:52
Saiwan: I completely agree with you.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 11:59

Well i sepak kurdish, but i never forget how my sorani brothers denied me as a kurd, just because they didn understand my dialect. So you see i am fayli, i am shia and i am what you can call nationalist

My dad experienced the same problem.

Laks are wild, they do everything for their own interest, many of them have become so rich from contraband, that they don't know how to spend their money, the reason they are becomming Persified is their own fault, they move to the city and forget themselves, but I do not think the langauge will die out, there are many rural ones still,  Kermanshahi can communicate with them, their language is similar to our dialect.

As for Lurs, they are not Kurds and don't call themselves Kurds, and again same thing as Laks, the ones who moved to the cities became Persified and the rural ones still speak Lori, their language is 80% intelligible with Persian anyway.

Also the Goranis are losing their language, it is a real shame because their language is a living piece of history, it is still in the middle Iranian style, which was lost almost everywhere else, except with the Dimili/Zazaki in Turkey and Sangesari Persians.  The Hawramani Gorani is being replaced by Sorani.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 12:18

As i have learned Lurs say thats kurds are descendents of the lurs. Dont know if it is true, but its the same problem as: Did the chicken came first or the egg.

It's true that many have been persified because of their migration to the citys, but it is their own fault. They must take the responcibility and teach their children the language and cultur.

As i said before my grandfathers migrated from iran at least a century ago, but behold, i can speak fayli, i can communicate with other faylis without any problem. Thats thanks to my father and his father and his grandfather, etc.

We must intentionally get hold of our language and teach it to our children.

 It would be a shame that after so long, get assimilated by subordinate cultures, just because they are the ruling authority at the moment.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 12:53
Lors and Kurds are both from Medes, Kurds are mountain medes and Lors are a part of the lowland Medes, who were dominant in NW Iran in ancient times.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 12:58

and bakhtiaris?

We have one problem here. If you go to ilam and say they are faylies they will most probably laugh at you, thay say nope we are ali sharwan, malek shah, ....

Or just simply kurd. That will make my work difficult

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 13:02

OOOOO and one more thing Mr. Zagros.

Do you really believe that we can say fayli are parthenons just by playing with words?

So how come kurds kan be linked to medes? There is no similarities in the name what so ever. And there is no historical continuety in the usage of fayli. It just happens to come up, from no where!!

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 14:43

"Well i sepak kurdish, but i never forget how my sorani brothers denied me as a kurd, just because they didn understand my dialect. So you see i am fayli, i am shia and i am what you can call nationalist"

I'm sorry for that. Just ignore that. They're ignorant about Kurdish people.

They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2006 at 14:48

Yes Mr. Cent i know.

But i was just a kid when they mobbed me

U see i am struggling for the kurds, not faylis or gorani or sorani, but for the kurds.

We are all brothers. And yes there are always some ignorant persons. Thats the case for all nationaleties. I hope someday in the near future we will have or beloved kurdistan freed from the enemies and be neighbors without any trubble.

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