The Winter War

Obviously both the Russians and the Finns did a lot better when they were working together instead of fighting each other...

Yes, this topic was very interesting and many good opinions and facts have been presented. I am personally very keen on Finnish military history and I have read quite a lot literature about the Winter war (dozens actually). There were also some comments that were more legend than fact so I will correct them.chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

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1) Soviets knew that the war would last till winter because it started on the last day of November (It�s already winter in November). The thing that they didn�t know was that the winter would be coldest in decades. Most of the Russian casualties were suffered from the cold. Nobody really knows how many Soviets died in Winter war but quite a lot say that approximately 100 000�200 000 were killed by Finns and 500 000-800 000 by cold and field executions. This numbers might be actually bit over estimated in my opinion. Soviet archives say anyway that up to one million Soviets died in winter war. >>

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2) Finnish mortars were highly effective but there were way too few of them. The mortars were playing very minor role in the winter war. Mortars were also short on ammunition just like artillery. Finnish artillery became truly effective in 1941-1944 war but not in the winter war.>>

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3) Mannerheim line was never destroyed. It was penetrated in few places in the end of the war but it was never totally destroyed. And when we are talking about Mannerheim line few facts has to be said. There were not many bunkers in the line despite some here have claimed so. And anyway most of the bunkers were destroyed in the early parts of the war. Actually, the whole Mannerheim line was more propaganda than true fortified impenetrable wall. In many places there were not even trenches and the line was just one line, not line after another like in WW1. I have visited the line and it�s not very impressing. The best fortification in the line was probably the Finnish soldier�>>

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4) The temperature was never as high as 60 decrees. Most of the winter it was 30-40, at the best less than 50. It�s cold here in Finland but not that cold! Anyway, you are correct that it was too cold for the Russians. But trust me it was not very warm for the Finns either, especially those from the big cities had difficulties with the winter, unlike those from the countryside. Proper dressing was the key to survive in such temperatures.>>

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5) It�s true that English and French were planning to send 1-2 divisions to help Finland. Some believe that they were actually planned to take Swedish and Norwegian mines instead of helping Finns. Hard to say what is the fact.>>

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And there are also few important things that have gone unnoticed. >>

Finnish officers were very good because of the civil war that had been in Finland 20 years before the winter war. Finnish officers and troops were battle hardened and effective.>>

Also one thing that must be noticed is SMG. Finnish army practically invented �smg warfare�. Finns had lots of Suomi M/31 while soviets had not at all smg. Soviets, Germans and Brittish armies started to produce large quantities of them only after the winter war as they realized how effective smg can be. Many Finnish commanders said that one Finnish smg soldier could stop 200 Soviets with rifles. No one has also mentioned the skis that were essential part of the Finnish rapid moving troops. With skis Finns could move 70 km per day while walking in the snowy forest drops your speed to 10 km per day at the worst. >>

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Anyway, it can be considered miracle that the Finns managed so well in the war. No one except the Finns themselves believed that Finns could stop the red juggernaut. Maybe one thing that gave our people the power to face Russians was the fact that they are our ancient arch enemies. We have faced them before and will face them some day again. Always the odds have been against the Finns but we have fought them anyway. Finns never give up, it�s not part of our character. Finnish soldiers were not bad either: Stalin once said to one Finnish communist that if red army would be made of Finns he already would rule the world.>>

And does anyone have any information on the matter that the worlds greatest sniper fought in the Winter War. He was a finn and shot 243 people (probably Russians i guess) in 3 months.

Maybe one of the reasons the Russians lost, was the lack of reason to fight. They were on foreign soil, away from home, the war had no significance to anyone but Stalin and thw victory would not have ment anything to Soviet conscript if he conquered Helsinki.

I only wish that Estonia had offered such opposition to the Red Cancer, stupid politicians!

Edasi soomepoisid !!!

Yes, the sniper was Simo H�yh� also known as "White death". He also killed 200-300 russians with smg in addittion of those killed with rifle.

And the "owls" were one thing that slowed the russians a lot. Russians thought that they were sitting on the trees but actually they were lying on the ground with skis. They killed one man and retreated.

And those smileys came becose my computer had some "problems"

Dude, I understand your super-stupid-racist-point-of-view-for-which-you-will-be banned-from-this-forum-for-eternity-within-24-hours, but seriously, having windows logos instead of swastikas doesn't really reinforce your point

Just put a line in here, so you wouldn't see that moron's name as the last contributor in this forum.

It's called a balaklava, after the battle of Balaklava in the Crimean War 1854.

so it is HITLER57 this time.I wonder how someone can be so immature.

Woah woah a lot of urban legend and myth here.

I can't be bothered to correct it all, but things like Finns having a 60 000 strong Army? WTF? With a CONSCRIPTION army? more like 300,000 in the Winter war, 500,000 in continuation war.

By the way, Simo H�yh� had over 500 confirmed kills from sniping, not 200-300, and this is from the Winter War alone. I'm not sure if he served in the continuation war, as he was severly wounded in the Winter War.

Here is an excellent link to anyone interested: http://www.winterwar.com/

Originally posted by Mahti And again, Simo H�yh� didn't have 500 kills with rifle, about half of them were made with smg. He didn't serve in the continuation war, but was a trainer instead.

Sources please, for the kills. All articles/books I've read state that he had a score of over 500 kills, plus uncounted kills with smg.