Worse than Czar Nicholas II?

Still, the russians had twice as many mortars and three times as many artillery pieces (reserves not counted)

   Well, , how did the Vietnamese resisted USA for so long? And how are the Chechens resisting Russia? And etc, etc, etc? Due to better tactics, better knowledge of the terrain, endurance and resolve. 

  The Finns used the terrain, timber bunkers, excelent organization and guerrilla tactics to their advantage.

  They had a population acostumed to live in the wilderness and to hunt (they had excelent marksmen and skyiers), and they had been prepared for war by Mannerheim (who, by the way, had been a Russian officer). They had rifles (copied from the Mosin-Nagant - correct me if I'm wrong), many machine and sub-machine guns and yes, many cocktails as well! 

As for the terrain, the Finnish-Russian frontier is heavilly wooded so penetration is difficult. Fighting there is just like fighting urban warfare. The cold was also important because the Finnish cold surprised even the Russians(!). Temperatures went as far as 60 minus (!!!). The Finns were acostumed to that, the Russians weren't....

   Finnish organization and tactics were intended to isolate colums of mechanized infantry, separate foot soldiers from tanks and then destroy both separately. Tanks without infantry support are easy preys (that's why Germans created Panzergranadier units, in order to support tanks)

  As for tacticts and organization, the Russians were poorly led and had poor tactics as well. They were overconfident on their mechanized/motorized units and its firepower. But just like in urban warfare, firepower alone is nothing if you don't have mobility.

  Eventualy, the Russians were pinned down in the woods and cutted to peaces.    But because Russians are not stupid (and Stalin did listened to his generals), they started to use massive fire power (artillery and aviation) in order to break the Mannerheim Line and destroy Hellsinky and other Finnish cities. That finally forced the Finns to sue for peace.

DMITRII KRUTSKIKH (a personal acount)

"Finns make very good fighters and the Great Patriotic War they fought better than the Germans. I see several reasons for that. First, they knew their land and were prepared for this climate. This resulted in minute differences in camouflage, tactics, reconnaissance, all of which eventually bore fruit. Firearms training - excellent. In combat , they are also solid. I noticed, however, that, when they attacked our defense lines, they would make a brisk run for 100-150 metres but then lie down. The Finns are more talkative than even the Germans. The Finnish artillery didn't work that well, but their mortars were good."

"What can I say about the Finnish War? Politically - it was a defeat, militarily - a disaster. The Finnish War had a deep impact on us. We saw a lot of grief. We suffered huge losses - which do not even closely compare with theirs. Our dead were left to lie in the foreign land."

read more at http://www.iremember.ru/index_e.htm - http://www.iremember.ru/index_e.htm , which seems to be an excelent web page on XX cent. Russian military History

as a testament to the goofy idiocy of the Russian commadners, dotn forget tehy at least once crossed a frozen lake only to coem under artillery fire that smashed the lake and drowned them. 

Well, gospodo Dark_One, the Finns had their bunkers and pillboxes, wile the Russians, the attackers, would stay in the cold... no wonder they got frozen, the poor bastards...

And it is in fact an irony that the Finns acctualy made up some of the best units of the revolutionary/Red Army. And, as far as I know, the Armenians also did quite well, especially against the Basmachi and other "counter-revolutionary" (as well as the Chinese, etc.).

   Do you know that the French and the English were about to send troops to fight for the Finns? For instance, the 13eme Demi-Brigade of the French Foreign Legion was created to fight the Soviets. It was prevented to go only because the amounting german menace.

  Best

Sikander

Yes, this topic was very interesting and many good opinions and facts have been presented. I am personally very keen on Finnish military history and I have read quite a lot literature about the Winter war (dozens actually). There were also some comments that were more legend than fact so I will correct them.chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

 >>

1) Soviets knew that the war would last till winter because it started on the last day of November (It’s already winter in November). The thing that they didn’t know was that the winter would be coldest in decades. Most of the Russian casualties were suffered from the cold. Nobody really knows how many Soviets died in Winter war but quite a lot say that approximately 100 000–200 000 were killed by Finns and 500 000-800 000 by cold and field executions. This numbers might be actually bit over estimated in my opinion. Soviet archives say anyway that up to one million Soviets died in winter war. >>

 >>

2) Finnish mortars were highly effective but there were way too few of them. The mortars were playing very minor role in the winter war. Mortars were also short on ammunition just like artillery. Finnish artillery became truly effective in 1941-1944 war but not in the winter war.>>

 >>

3) Mannerheim line was never destroyed. It was penetrated in few places in the end of the war but it was never totally destroyed. And when we are talking about Mannerheim line few facts has to be said. There were not many bunkers in the line despite some here have claimed so. And anyway most of the bunkers were destroyed in the early parts of the war. Actually, the whole Mannerheim line was more propaganda than true fortified impenetrable wall. In many places there were not even trenches and the line was just one line, not line after another like in WW1. I have visited the line and it’s not very impressing. The best fortification in the line was probably the Finnish soldier…>>

 >>

4) The temperature was never as high as 60 decrees. Most of the winter it was 30-40, at the best less than 50. It’s cold here in Finland but not that cold! Anyway, you are correct that it was too cold for the Russians. But trust me it was not very warm for the Finns either, especially those from the big cities had difficulties with the winter, unlike those from the countryside. Proper dressing was the key to survive in such temperatures.>>

 >>

5) It’s true that English and French were planning to send 1-2 divisions to help Finland. Some believe that they were actually planned to take Swedish and Norwegian mines instead of helping Finns. Hard to say what is the fact.>>

 >>

And there are also few important things that have gone unnoticed. >>

Finnish officers were very good because of the civil war that had been in Finland 20 years before the winter war. Finnish officers and troops were battle hardened and effective.>>

Also one thing that must be noticed is SMG. Finnish army practically invented “smg warfare”. Finns had lots of Suomi M/31 while soviets had not at all smg. Soviets, Germans and Brittish armies started to produce large quantities of them only after the winter war as they realized how effective smg can be. Many Finnish commanders said that one Finnish smg soldier could stop 200 Soviets with rifles. No one has also mentioned the skis that were essential part of the Finnish rapid moving troops. With skis Finns could move 70 km per day while walking in the snowy forest drops your speed to 10 km per day at the worst. >>

 >>

Anyway, it can be considered miracle that the Finns managed so well in the war. No one except the Finns themselves believed that Finns could stop the red juggernaut. Maybe one thing that gave our people the power to face Russians was the fact that they are our ancient arch enemies. We have faced them before and will face them some day again. Always the odds have been against the Finns but we have fought them anyway. Finns never give up, it’s not part of our character. Finnish soldiers were not bad either: Stalin once said to one Finnish communist that if red army would be made of Finns he already would rule the world.>>

And does anyone have any information on the matter that the worlds greatest sniper fought in the Winter War. He was a finn and shot 243 people (probably Russians i guess) in 3 months.

Maybe one of the reasons the Russians lost, was the lack of reason to fight. They were on foreign soil, away from home, the war had no significance to anyone but Stalin and thw victory would not have ment anything to Soviet conscript if he conquered Helsinki.

I only wish that Estonia had offered such opposition to the Red Cancer, stupid politicians!

Edasi soomepoisid !!!

Yes, the sniper was Simo Häyhä also known as "White death". He also killed 200-300 russians with smg in addittion of those killed with rifle.

And the "owls" were one thing that slowed the russians a lot. Russians thought that they were sitting on the trees but actually they were lying on the ground with skis. They killed one man and retreated.

And those smileys came becose my computer had some "problems"

Edited for rasicm...

Poster banned for racism (and stupidity)...post edited.

did the finns use that black headwear that covers the entire face and has 3 holes one for the mouth and two for the eyes?(had to describe it because i have no idea what it is called in english)

Woah woah a lot of urban legend and myth here.

I can't be bothered to correct it all, but things like Finns having a 60 000 strong Army? WTF? With a CONSCRIPTION army? more like 300,000 in the Winter war, 500,000 in continuation war.

By the way, Simo Häyhä had over 500 confirmed kills from sniping, not 200-300, and this is from the Winter War alone. I'm not sure if he served in the continuation war, as he was severly wounded in the Winter War.

Here is an excellent link to anyone interested: http://www.winterwar.com/ - http://www.winterwar.com/

Yes 300,000 should be approximately right. Anyway, not nearly all men were conscripted because there were huge savings in the army's budget before war.

And again, Simo Häyhä didn't have 500 kills with rifle, about half of them were made with smg. He didn't serve in the continuation war, but was a trainer instead.

Sources please, for the kills. All articles/books I've read state that he had a score of over 500 kills, plus uncounted kills with smg.