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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:11
Originally posted by mamikon

wait...exactly why  Iranians and Arabians dislike each other. And do Iranians consider themselves as Persians heritage or  Arab heritage? (Probably the former I just wanted to  make sure).

Howcome Iran became muslim, but Armenia and Byzantium did not? (or why did Armenia and Rome/Byzantium become Christian while Persians did not)


Iranis have Aryan Heratige and are often called Persians. They are not Arabs who are semetic.
Most of the Byzantine territories are majority muslim now, eg Syria Egypt Anatolia, Byzantium (Istanbul) itself.

The sassanid persians were quite anti-christian as they were continually fighting the christian Romans, but why people choose or don't choose to convert to a religion is probably different for each person.

Edited by Omar al Hashim
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:15
I mean, although a small nation, Armenia remained Christian throught the Arab invasions. Howcome Persia, with its large territory and population did not stay faithful to Zoroastrism (I spelled it wrong, but give  me a break its 1 AM here), maybe it got old

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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:52
Difficult question. You would probably have to look into culture, politics, economics and each persons thoughts to know a true answer.
The sassanids had an old empire that was offically zoroastrian, so chances are that alot of the population were disenfranchised with their religion and government with its endless warmaking against the Romans (as often happens at the end of empires and dynasties). So when Islam came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and change, embracing Islam. I also think it requires a much greater leap of faith to be a Parsi than it does to be a muslim.

I know in the Byzantine lands the various Churches had been arguing with each other over the most silly things, and the Church decleared most of the middle eastern Christians heretics just after they were conquered, and Islam was created to set the people back to the teaching of Jesus and the other prophets.

Modern Armenia wasn't under Arab rule I believe, but Azerbaijan was, and Azerbaijan is muslim. So Armenia had hundreds of years to develop prejudeces about Islam while the Azerbaijanis and Iranis were introduced to when the only way to learn about Islam was to learn the truth. Also Armenians probably have a national idenity as Christians, as in we're not like those guys 50k's away because we're christian and their muslim.

I'm just guessing but


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Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 02:54

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


Worshiping fire was so popular everyone abandoned it in droves, its a chemical reaction!


Fire is a chemical reaction that is true, but kaaba is just a piece of stone covered by a piece of black cloth! Then why do you bend over 5 time a day facing it and worship it

 

 
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 03:26
It is just stone covered by cloth.
Your not worshipping the Kaaba, your worshipping God, who created fire and all chemical and nuclear reactions.
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 03:46
Originally posted by mamikon

I mean, although a small nation, Armenia remained Christian throught the Arab invasions. Howcome Persia, with its large territory and population did not stay faithful to Zoroastrism (I spelled it wrong, but give  me a break its 1 AM here), maybe it got old


Quite simple: Islam respects (more or less) the religions of the Book (the Bible), that is Christianity and Islam. This is logical because it was born in Western Arabia, where Christian and Jewish presence was strong. Islam itself is concieved as descendant of those religions and thus, the same that Christians respected (more or less) Judaism, Islam respected its ancestors.

But Islam does not respect any other religion and, while it may be more or les tolerant with non-Abrahmanic beliefs, depending on circumstances, it's much more likely that these are aput on the spot of religious intolerance.

Also Islam favors the enslavement of non-believers, what may exclude Judeo-Christians but does not have to exclude other major faiths, like Zoroastrianism or Hinduism, for instance.

Without doubt the pressure upon Zoroastrians was stronger than upon Christians to convert. Yet, this backfired because Zoroastrian converts adhered massively to the Shia faction, creating the first major division within Islam.

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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:02
Originally posted by Maju


But Islam does not respect any other religion and, while it may be more or les tolerant with non-Abrahmanic beliefs, depending on circumstances, it's much more likely that these are aput on the spot of religious intolerance.

Also Islam favors the enslavement of non-believers, what may exclude Judeo-Christians but does not have to exclude other major faiths, like Zoroastrianism or Hinduism, for instance.

Without doubt the pressure upon Zoroastrians was stronger than upon Christians to convert. Yet, this backfired because Zoroastrian converts adhered massively to the Shia faction, creating the first major division within Islam.

Maju, a repeat of the Jihad thread? Islam permits anyone to follow whichever religion they want. To claim that there was more pressure on Zoroastrians than Christians is to forget that the Christians converted too.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:57

The sassanids had an old empire that was offically zoroastrian, so chances are that alot of the population were disenfranchised with their religion and government with its endless warmaking against the Romans (as often happens at the end of empires and dynasties). So when Islam came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and change, embracing Islam.

That is my opinion too, and i have often used Armenia as an example, infact Arabs later on preferred less converts so they could get more jiziah.  Another interesting point that i have read is that 20% of the population was still Zaroastrian until the Safavids forced mass conversion to shiitism.  Having said that, not all regions "embraced" with a few major cities, particularly in Afghanistan, reverting to Zaroastrianism and having to be reconquered.

ZAroastrrians do not worship fire, fire is merely sacred, they weree the first to belive in one god, they prayed five times a day and many concepts of their religion passed to islam and other Abrahamic faiths.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:58
Zaroastrianism is actually considered a religion of the book.
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:18

I think persians who get rid of mollah looks like young turks.

They think, If  they get rid of mollah (like young turks) everything will be fine.But   most probably a lot problem will rise with the downfall of mollah, like turkish  and kurdish nationalism, a lot new conflict ext.

They also belittle mollah(again young turks), but Infact mollah are doing not such bad job, they are against Israel, not because of their religion, but because of national interest, they support christian armenians against muslim(shia) azeris(most probably nearest ethnic to iran), and they have no problem with working russia.

this Mollah also pressure turkish and kurdish nationalism, Infact they are asimilating azeris.

If I am  persian, last  thing I wish,would be to try islamic iran. Maybe 50-100 year laters, but not now.

 
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:33
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


I know in the Byzantine lands the various Churches had been arguing with each other over the most silly things, and the Church decleared most of the middle eastern Christians heretics just after they were conquered, and Islam was created to set the people back to the teaching of Jesus and the other prophets.

Was created to set the people back to the teaching of Jesus?Back from where?The churches may were on dispute from time to time during the late Byzantine period,but that mainly due to politics not religion.If some Christians or Christian priests abandonded His teachings,it does not mean that the whole body of Church abandoned it to.His teaching were always inside Christianity.
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Posts: 2268 		  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:42
 @Omar al Hashim & mamikon: Have you read all post from first one

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Worshiping fire was so popular everyone abandoned it in droves, its a chemical reaction!

Please Don't speak when you don't know anything about Zartosht

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


The sassanid persians were quite anti-christian as they were continually fighting the christian Romans,

People correct me please, Which of Sassanid vs Roman wars was about religion???
 
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

So when Islam came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and change, embracing Islam. I also think it requires a much greater leap of faith to be a Parsi than it does to be a muslim.

Again, have you read my post in first page??

 
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Your not worshipping the Kaaba, your worshipping God, who created fire and all chemical and nuclear reactions.

Well, I suggest,  lets pray around Bushehr reactor (Joke)

 
Originally posted by Maju

Islam respects (more or less) the religions of the Book (the Bible), that is Christianity and Islam. This is logical because it was born in Western Arabia, where Christian and Jewish presence was strong. Islam itself is concieved as descendant of those religions and thus, the same that Christians respected (more or less) Judaism, Islam respected its ancestors.

Jews weren't very respectful for Islam even at Mohammad life time,
I've read Mohammad killed all Bani gharize or same for nabi nazir tribe people.
I hope, I didn't have light up flame war

Others responced by Zagros, Thank you
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Posts: 2268 		  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:48
Crazy world
Here we have Turks whom disagree alliance with Israel, But their goverment agree.
& so Here we have Iranian whom agree alliance with Israel, But their goverment disagree..stamble();
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:01

Crazy world
Here we have Turks whom disagree alliance with Israel, But their goverment agree.
& so Here we have Iranian whom agree alliance with Israel, But their goverment disagree..stamble();

 

  hehe  well said, about turks, not true about iranians. who  said iranians are pro-israel?

 
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Posts: 2268 		  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:10
@Mortaza:
only about AE forumers & not for all Iran or Turkey nationstamble();
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:12

oh sorry, yep.  you  are right  about this.

 
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:18

 

not many Iranians like israel not even majority. only those who have half knowledge about their own history and ignorant about the Israeli/Palistinian Issue.

their hate to the iranian Ruling system made them hate Arabs and Islam and made them feeling towards other groups which hate Islam and Arabs as well. groups such as Israelis.

since this topic isn't about "Current International Relations" i'll move this thread to historical amusement forum.

 

 
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Posts: 1869 		  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:26
Originally posted by azimuth

since this topic isn't about "Current International Relations" i'll move this thread to historical amusement forum.

Nice move!   
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:33

Why move it to historical amusement? This alliance was a historical FACT, and aside from that it is a valid discussion of international relations. Should the mullah regime fall, it would not be an outlandish event... As Mortaza pointed out national interest outweighs religion (Iran supporting Christian Armenia against Shiite FSR Azerbaijan during Azerbaijani Mullah's tenure in Iran).

Turkey right now is an ally of Israel, do most Turks support this alliance? I am not sure but they do what is int heir national interest.
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Posts: 237 		  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:41
Originally posted by Miller

                                               

                                                   

    
Originally posted by The Guardian

 Iran is full of muslims!Muslims get an islamic revulution!Which is why Iran is not a christian state today, or any other, they are muslim. the vast majority of Iran is muslim.  One of my sources can be seen below:

Religious affiliations

Shiite Muslim93 percent
Sunni Muslim6 percent
Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i1 percent

Yes, and 99% of the Soviets were listed as Communist in 1985

What is your point. Is it that 99% of Iranians have freely selected Islam as their religion and actually believe in it

 

 

May I see your reliable source then?As I said, an Islamist nation gets an Islamic revolution, not a christian one
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