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November 15- Birth of Erwin Rommel

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: November 15- Birth of Erwin Rommel
    Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 07:10
Having lived as a German in England for a long time, it has always struck me as quite remarkable, how this alleged German war-hero had a far higher public recognition and admiration in the lands of his former enemies, than in the Fatherland himself.

On November 15, 1891, Erwin Rommel, German Field Marshal in the second World war, was born in Heidenheim, South Germany, as son of a school headmaster.
Rommel was a professional career soldier, having joined cadet school in the former independent Kingdom of Wrttemberg at the age of 19, and raised to the rank of Lieutenant two years after, he served in the First World War with high distinction, collecting Iron Crosses on the way and being awarded Prussias highest military order, the Pour le Merite.
Rommel survived the in-glorious days of the German army in the Weimar Republic, when one of the stipulations of the Versailles treaty reduced its numbers and military equipment to a minimum, as a teacher and instructor at various military schools.
With the resurgence of German militarism under the Nazi-Regime, Rommels hour came in 1937, after he had attracted Hitlers attention. His first major task was the military training of the Hitler-Jugend, the compulsory youth organisation in Nazi-Germany, but his many talents let him soon rise to the commander of Hitlers personal bodyguard, a position that transferred him into the innermost circle of the leadership of the Nazi state.



Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel



At the outbreak of WW2, Rommel went to the front, first serving as commander of a tank battalion in France, and then in 1941, he was sent to North Africa, into the colonies of Germanys closet ally, the fascist Italy.
In the deserts of Libya and Egypt, Rommels Afrika Korps fought for two years against the numerically and technically superior British troops. After a number of initial successes, Rommel had to bow to the inevitable in 1943, the German African adventure ended in defeat at the hands of the British Field Marshal Montgomery and Rommel had to return to Europe.
The Battles between Rommel and Montgomery in North-Africa have a become a classic of the popular conception of WW2; far removed from the genocidal killing fields of Eastern Europe, the African theatre of war and the strategic struggles between the two Field Marshals gained a certain romantic notion, that has survived until today, especially in the country of the eventual victor. Rommel was christened the Desert Fox, a honourable and valiant enemy in the eyes of the British, and the later legends about his subsequent career are the result of this.
After his return to Europe, Rommel was put on ice for a while, having fallen out of favour with Hitler, but was ordered back into action when the war in the West demanded a few more capable commanders. Rommel was sent to France, but neither he nor anyone else could do any thing to prevent the allied landing in June 1944.
During an air attack on his car, Rommel was seriously wounded on the 17th July 1944, and therefore heard from his hospital about the unsuccessful assassination attempt on Hitlers life only three days later.
A number of high ranking Wehrmacht officers had been involved in the plot, and somehow Rommels name appeared on the list. Rommels actual involvement has been the stuff of heated debates, on the whole there is no substantial proof that he was part of the conspiracy. Hitler however believed otherwise, and Rommel escaped the execution that the other conspirators suffered, by suicide on October 24, 1944.
There is indeed no indication that Rommel ever seriously opposed Hitler other than in purely military questions, his closeness to the Nazi-leader in the two years before the war must have meant that he was familiar up to certain extent with both the expansionist and criminal plans of Hitler. Unlike many other Wehrmacht officers that actively opposed Hitlers politics and plans even before the war, Rommel was an obedient servant of Nazi-Germany, a very capable and honourable maybe, but nevertheless someone who facilitated Nazi-Germanys war-crimes. Amongst all this unhealthy war romanticism, that is sometimes forgotten.


Complete list of events:

Wikipedia

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 11:37

NOVEMBER 15, 1983- TURKISH REPUBLIC of NORTHERN CYPRUS (TRNC) was found:

Type of Government: Parliamentary Democracy

Established on: 15.11.1983                               

President of the Republic:  Mehmet Ali TALAT 

Colours of the Flag: White and Red

Capital city: Lefkoa (Nicosia)

Currency: Turkish Lira

Neighbouring Countries: South Cyprus, Turkey , Syria , Lebanon, Israel , Egypt.

Area: 3,355km2

Population: 213.500 (2002)

Religion: % 99 Moslem, % 1 Others

Language: Turkish

PROCLAMATION OF THE TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS (15 NOVEMBER 1983)

Following the UN resolution dated 15 May 1983, the Greek Cypriots, having acquired worldwide recognition as the "Cypriot Government," displayed a foot-dragging attitude, avoiding an agreement. Accordingly, using the right to self-determination, the people of Northern Cyprus proclaimed the foundation of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus on the basis of the unanimous resolution adopted by Federated Assembly on 15 November 1983.

Upon the proposal forwarded by 40 Deputies and a Minister assigned outside the Assembly, the Assembly adopted a resolution with the following wording:

"Representing the free will of Turkish Cypriots, believing that all the people, born equal and free, should live freely and equally, taking this fact as basis and declaring to the world on the strength of the resolution dated 17 June 1983 that Turkish Cypriots have the right to shape their destiny, rejecting all kinds of colonialism, racism, oppression, domination regardless of race, ethnic origin, language, religion, supporting peace and stability in Cyprus, the Eastern Mediterranean, the Middle East and the rest of the world, believing that Turkish Cypriots have the right to live in peace and security and to govern themselves, accepting strictly the fact that these two peoples who have to live side by side in the same island and all of their problems should be solved through negotiations on the same footing , never ignoring the fact that finidg a just and lasting solution to them is imperative , convinced that the proclamation of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus does not prevent the partnership between these two peoples from being established and the disputes from being resolved but helps to solve them, believing that all the problems between these two peoples can be solved through a peaceful and compromising policy, desiring that negotiations be held to this end, believing that the proposed summit will be beneficial in this respect, our Assembly ratifies the foundation of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and its "independence declaration" on behalf of the Turkish Cypriot Nation."

The Republic of Turkey, which always supported the Turkish Cypriot people during their struggle for independence, became the first country to recognize Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.



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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 12:00
Thanks, Oguzoglu, for bringing this momentous event to our attention, especially as it hadn't done so before on AE, or at least not very often.
I'm certain, there are a number of members on AE who have a very different view on this occasion, denouncing the declaration of the independence of Northern Cyprus an invalid and illegal act after an illegal occupation by Turkish troops of parts of the Island.
I'm certain, it would be possible to have a fascinating debate on this topic,..... but not here.




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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 17:25

Komnenos. May I inform you that Rommel was not EVER a member of the Nazi party. He was simply a general. He never facilitated any war crimes during his time in command. For one, when would he have been able to kill any people. He was in the desert! Here the most he could have done was kill prisoners. But we know that he didn't. Hitler sent him a letter saying that any general that did not execute POWs would be executed themselves. Before reading past the first sentence, Rommel tossed the piece of paper into the fire. He treated his prisoners in the most honorable way. In 42' he was recalled to Europe after falling ill. Up till 44' he was too busy with military matters. He never was in any part of the holocaust at all. He despised Hitlers ideas to "destory all public." Why do you think that when he returned he started to plan the Fuhrer's downfall. In 44' he commanded the defense of Normandy. To the West there were hundreds of reserve tanks that he told Hitler could easily halt the Allied invasion on the beaches. Hitler was too convinced though that an airborne attack would be the main assault. Well this is what the allies wanted him to think as the Airbornes were simply there to make way for the main invasion. Now a little later Rommel was either to take death by suicide or go on public trial and his family would be punished. Be the hinirable man that he was he took death by poison.

 

It really bothers me when people don't think before they post!

"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:12
Originally posted by Hannibal Barca

Komnenos. May I inform you that Rommel was not EVER a member of the Nazi party. He was simply a general. He never facilitated any war crimes during his time in command.



Thanks for enlightening me.
The question remains however, why Rommel, being both such a high ranking officer and intimate of Hitler before the war, did not actively oppose Hitler's agressive plans as early as 1939, unlike others, most notable General Ludwig Beck. Rommel had a chance there, but did nothing and went ahead with Hitler, I suppose "only obeying orders", and thus, like any other German military leader, must carry part of blame for both the war itself and the horrendous crimes that were committed in its course.


Why do you think that when he returned he started to plan the Fuhrer's downfall.


Although Rommel was in the last years of the war highly critical of Hitler's military leadership, if you want to call it that, he did not oppose him politically, and there is no evidence that he was actively involved in the July 20 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler.
He was accused of having been so, as it gave those in the German military leadership who wanted to get rid of him for being somewhat critical of their tactics, a convenient excuse to do so.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:39

Komnenos. May I inform you that Rommel was not EVER a member of the Nazi party. He was simply a general. He never facilitated any war crimes during his time in command. For one, when would he have been able to kill any people. He was in the desert! Here the most he could have done was kill prisoners. But we know that he didn't. Hitler sent him a letter saying that any general that did not execute POWs would be executed themselves. Before reading past the first sentence, Rommel tossed the piece of paper into the fire. He treated his prisoners in the most honorable way. In 42' he was recalled to Europe after falling ill. Up till 44' he was too busy with military matters. He never was in any part of the holocaust at all. He despised Hitlers ideas to "destory all public." Why do you think that when he returned he started to plan the Fuhrer's downfall. In 44' he commanded the defense of Normandy. To the West there were hundreds of reserve tanks that he told Hitler could easily halt the Allied invasion on the beaches. Hitler was too convinced though that an airborne attack would be the main assault. Well this is what the allies wanted him to think as the Airbornes were simply there to make way for the main invasion. Now a little later Rommel was either to take death by suicide or go on public trial and his family would be punished. Be the hinirable man that he was he took death by poison.

Sigh not another noble Rommel post.

What can be said abut the man. When from Spain to Berlin every person was faced with one of three choices, putting their lives on the line and fighting for freedom, putting their heads down and hoping to avoid trouble overhead, or becoming helping the Nazis.

Rommel freely chose to fight for Nazism. That's the measure of the man.

Yes you can argue he was nice to POW's, Himler cried at his budgie's funeral and I'm sure Jacj the Ripper was nice to children. Doesn't change what he was in the big picture. A Nazi lackey.

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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:44
He was a general of the Nazi's but he was never a party member and never had anything to do with any war crimes. He stayed a proffesional until Hitler had him killed.
"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:45
By the Way, He didn't fight for Naziism, he fought for Germany. He never fought for the Fuhrer or the Nazi's. He was victorious for "Deutchland"
"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:46
Originally posted by Paul


Sighnot another noble Rommel post.


What can be said abut the man. When from Spain to Berlinevery person was faced with one of three choices, putting their lives on the line and fighting for freedom, putting their heads down and hoping to avoid trouble overhead, or becominghelping theNazis.


Rommel freely chose to fight for Nazism. That's the measure of the man.


Yes you can argue he was nice to POW's, Himler cried at his budgie's funeral and I'm sure Jacj the Ripper was nice to children. Doesn't change what he was in the big picture. A Nazi lackey.



Good man.
At last, a Brit who doesn't like Rommel.
For some obscure reason Rommel is much more popular in the UK than in the Fatherland itself.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:51

By the Way, He didn't fight for Naziism, he fought for Germany. He never fought for the Fuhrer or the Nazi's. He was victorious for "Deutchland"

Oh! So the Germany he was fighting for didn't have a Nazi government?

And what about all the Germans who bravely fought against Nazism, thus against the govenrment and against the country.... Traitors I suppose.

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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:56

He is popular in Britain because he beat their pale backs! They know that. Monty was the most overrated general of WWII. He came in with a much stronger and larger force than Rommel and still failed to destroy the Afrika Korps. Had Rommel stayed he might have been able to counterattack the Brits. Every book I have read that has been written by a Brit just overglorifies their victory over Rommel. They continue to say that Germany was really looking for Rommel to be victorious so they kept him with an invincible and mighty force. Truth is Germany didn't care. They never gave Rommel enough supplies or support. About a fourth of his force was of Italian vehicles and troops. He was always outnumbered and outgunned, yet he still was able to overcome these obstacles time and again.

 

Well Rommel is not responsible for WWII. Did he support Germany's agressive actions, yes very much so. He had every right to. He felt insulted by the Allies just like MOST of the other German officers did and he stood up for Germany and fought for it once again. In France, he was even worse supplied than in the desert. Most of his tanks were formerly for training and he was given a small amount of men. He was able to consistantly defeat the much stronger and larger French forces and became a major deciding factor in the conquest. Now you are criticizing people like Guderian and Manstein who nothing but brilliant generals who went to war for Germany. Rommel had no part in the genocide once again. I can;t believe you still think this.

"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

-Field MArshall Erwin Rommel
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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 18:57

Paul, in regard to your last post.

So now you are saying that American soldiers in Iraq are fighting for Bush and the Republicans?



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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:01
If the Democrats say we will leave Iraq and the Republicans say we will stay..... That's pretty obvious.
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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:09
Now you just contradicted yourself.
"In the absence of orders go find something and kill it!"

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:16
How?
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  Quote Hannibal Barca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:31

Above you said that Rommel must have been fighting for the Nazi's because that was the gvernment of Germany, yet you post that the American soldiers in Iraq must not be fighting for the Bush Administration( hence the government of the United States).

Maybe I misunderstand you though?



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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:39

Ug, I am disgusted with anyone who believe Rommel was a Nazi and fought for the Nazis.  It shows your ingorance, if nothing else!

And no, Hannibal, you did not misunderstand Paul.  Paul just likes to rant on how he think Rommel was a moron and not a good leader!  It sickens me!

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:40

Btw, I like you sig, Hannibal.  I have that quote for my sig in another forum.  My other favorites are

What difference does it make if you have two tanks to my one, when you spread them out and let me smash them in detail?
-Erwin Rommel-
Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.
-Erwin Rommel-
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:42

ahh

Actually I was saying American soldiers in Iraq were fighting for Republican party policy not America.

Possibly the way I made the comment was unclear.

So I'll reiterate. Repubican party policy is to stay in Iraq. Democratic party policy is to pull out of Iraq. Therefore if you are fighting in Iraq you are fighting for the Republican view not the Democrat view, so fighting for Republican policy.

 

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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2005 at 19:47
TheGeneral, he may not have fought for the Nazis in the essence that he did not believe in Nazism, but by aiding the Nazi-controlled government in their conquests he was thus fighting for them whether he liked Nazism or not.

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