NOVEMBER 15, 1983- TURKISH REPUBLIC of NORTHERN CYPRUS (TRNC) was found:

Type of Government: Parliamentary Democracy

Established on: 15.11.1983                               

President of the Republic:  Mehmet Ali TALAT 

Colours of the Flag: White and Red

Capital city: Lefkoþa (Nicosia)

Currency: Turkish Lira

Neighbouring Countries: South Cyprus, Turkey , Syria , Lebanon, Israel , Egypt.

Area: 3,355km2

Population: 213.500 (2002)

Religion: % 99 Moslem, % 1 Others

Language: Turkish

PROCLAMATION OF THE TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS (15 NOVEMBER 1983)

Komnenos. May I inform you that Rommel was not EVER a member of the Nazi party. He was simply a general. He never facilitated any war crimes during his time in command. For one, when would he have been able to kill any people. He was in the desert! Here the most he could have done was kill prisoners. But we know that he didn't. Hitler sent him a letter saying that any general that did not execute POWs would be executed themselves. Before reading past the first sentence, Rommel tossed the piece of paper into the fire. He treated his prisoners in the most honorable way. In 42' he was recalled to Europe after falling ill. Up till 44' he was too busy with military matters. He never was in any part of the holocaust at all. He despised Hitlers ideas to "destory all public." Why do you think that when he returned he started to plan the Fuhrer's downfall. In 44' he commanded the defense of Normandy. To the West there were hundreds of reserve tanks that he told Hitler could easily halt the Allied invasion on the beaches. Hitler was too convinced though that an airborne attack would be the main assault. Well this is what the allies wanted him to think as the Airbornes were simply there to make way for the main invasion. Now a little later Rommel was either to take death by suicide or go on public trial and his family would be punished. Be the hinirable man that he was he took death by poison.

It really bothers me when people don't think before they post!

Sigh not another noble Rommel post.

What can be said abut the man. When from Spain to Berlin every person was faced with one of three choices, putting their lives on the line and fighting for freedom, putting their heads down and hoping to avoid trouble overhead, or becoming helping the Nazis.

Rommel freely chose to fight for Nazism. That's the measure of the man.

Yes you can argue he was nice to POW's, Himler cried at his budgie's funeral and I'm sure Jacj the Ripper was nice to children. Doesn't change what he was in the big picture. A Nazi lackey.

Oh! So the Germany he was fighting for didn't have a Nazi government?

And what about all the Germans who bravely fought against Nazism, thus against the govenrment and against the country.... Traitors I suppose.

He is popular in Britain because he beat their pale backs! They know that. Monty was the most overrated general of WWII. He came in with a much stronger and larger force than Rommel and still failed to destroy the Afrika Korps. Had Rommel stayed he might have been able to counterattack the Brits. Every book I have read that has been written by a Brit just overglorifies their victory over Rommel. They continue to say that Germany was really looking for Rommel to be victorious so they kept him with an invincible and mighty force. Truth is Germany didn't care. They never gave Rommel enough supplies or support. About a fourth of his force was of Italian vehicles and troops. He was always outnumbered and outgunned, yet he still was able to overcome these obstacles time and again.

Well Rommel is not responsible for WWII. Did he support Germany's agressive actions, yes very much so. He had every right to. He felt insulted by the Allies just like MOST of the other German officers did and he stood up for Germany and fought for it once again. In France, he was even worse supplied than in the desert. Most of his tanks were formerly for training and he was given a small amount of men. He was able to consistantly defeat the much stronger and larger French forces and became a major deciding factor in the conquest. Now you are criticizing people like Guderian and Manstein who nothing but brilliant generals who went to war for Germany. Rommel had no part in the genocide once again. I can;t believe you still think this.

Paul, in regard to your last post.

So now you are saying that American soldiers in Iraq are fighting for Bush and the Republicans?

Above you said that Rommel must have been fighting for the Nazi's because that was the gvernment of Germany, yet you post that the American soldiers in Iraq must not be fighting for the Bush Administration( hence the government of the United States).

Maybe I misunderstand you though?

Ug, I am disgusted with anyone who believe Rommel was a Nazi and fought for the Nazis.  It shows your ingorance, if nothing else!

And no, Hannibal, you did not misunderstand Paul.  Paul just likes to rant on how he think Rommel was a moron and not a good leader!  It sickens me!

Btw, I like you sig, Hannibal.  I have that quote for my sig in another forum.  My other favorites are

ahh

Actually I was saying American soldiers in Iraq were fighting for Republican party policy not America.

Possibly the way I made the comment was unclear.

So I'll reiterate. Repubican party policy is to stay in Iraq. Democratic party policy is to pull out of Iraq. Therefore if you are fighting in Iraq you are fighting for the Republican view not the Democrat view, so fighting for Republican policy.

Does it matter what they're thinking? 10 different soldiers in a platoon doing one thing, may be thinking ten different things while they're doing it, but they're all still doing that same thing.

As a judge would say, motives may explain why someone does something, but it doesn't excuse it.

Yes, but Rommel did not fight for the Nazi regime to gain their eternal glory. He fought to bring honor to his country.

As I said in criminal law, noble motives may explain why someone commited a crime, but they don't excuse it, and in no way effect sentencing.

Even if Rommel's motives for fighting for a Nazi regime were personally noble, he still fought for a nazi regime the same as someone who did it for selfish motives. An explanation but not an excuse.

How about this for example,

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4547&PN=3 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4547& ;PN=3

The bomb plot against Hitler at the bottom of the post was hardly peaceful.

You seem to be a Platonist. You talk of an abstract concept of Germany outside and beyond it's people, actions and government. Example you describe fighting for Germany and fighting for Hitler as two different things.

I disagree, I'm a materialist. Germany was it's government people and actions, at that period of time Germany was Nazism. Rommel was fighting for Nazism.

You know I disagree but Paul that is just my view of the situation. I am not protecting the Nazis for what they did I am just stating that Erwin J. Rommel was not a Nazi he was a proffesional military commander who fought for the glory of Germany. He had no part in any of the Nazi's ideals. He always stuck to his own ideas. That is how he launched his first Cyrenaican campaign. He was ordered not to advance, yet he realized that the British must be hit while they were weak. So he did. He always stuck to his principals also and would not give them up, even if it meant for his death.

Yes I do believe that fighting for the ruler of your country and fighting for your COUNTRY are two absolutely different things, and that is just my perspective of this.

Are you a member of Simaqian Studio History Forum Paul? I think you would do well there. We need intelligent people like you. Here is the link:

http://www.simaqianstudio.com/ - www.simaqianstudio.com

Emperor Barbarossa

 I was talking about hannibal.

You're already one us left wing Nazi's that patrol this forum, Jackboots and tractor keys in hand.

yeah OK, so Zhukov, Timoshenko, Rokossovsky, Konyev, Chuikov and all the other Marshals of the Soviet Union where fighting for Stalinism and deported every one of their soldiers to Gulags.... I thought they fought for liebrating Mother Russia but no I was wrong!

I must assume the boys of the Landsturm that fought in Berlin in 1945 where pillaging everything and raping every woman they encountered because obviously they were trying to create Lebensraum in Pankow for the Führer...oh Komnenos and all the others, I thought better of you...

and how is this different from Rommel? he was in the military before Hitler came to power, there were only 2 chocies, submit or go to the KZ (especially in '41), and don't be idealistic...
and why you call Rommel part of the Prussian military aristocracy when he was not, in fact Hitler liked him so much because he was exactly NOT part of this military caste, in fact many later Military resistance leaders were of this class, but funnily, they only took action after the Red Army advanced on Berlin.... I mean July '44....come on, like they needed so long to figure...talking about brainwashed

and do you even know how may ex-Soviet citizens fought for the Wehrmacht against the Soviet Union? i doubt a lot that they signed up because they liked Hitler and his regime that considdered them subhumans so much...it's very easy saying fighting for Germany equals fighting for Hitler but its not.

Why must you attack Rommel?  He was a soldier.  He was not into politics.  His secretary said "He was as dumb politically as he was brilliant militarily."  He fought for Germany, which happened to be ruled by Nazis.  The men fighting in Iraq, with your logic, are all republicans than?  Even though, number one, they have their own views, and,number two, both Demos and Reps voted yes to go to war?

Rommel was one of the few who defied Hitler.  He, on more than one occasion, ingored orders to kill all prisoners.  You cannot attack his ethics.  You can't even legitamatley attack his war record (although you have tried in past topics).  He had his flaws, of coucourse, but every general, soldier, civilian does!

At the end of the day...... Yes.

They may have had different motives in their minds, but that's what their actions were doing, it's what you do not what's in your mind when you do it.

Yes. Rommel was not part of the Prussian aristocracy. Had he been, Hitler never would have let him get that close. Guderian was of the Prussian aristocracy, and that is really why Hitler didn't like him. Hitler only kept him commanding was because he knew that he needed him dearly for the Russian campaign. But in the end he got rid of Guderian, Rommel, and Runsdedt thus basically throwing the entire war out the window. Altough he had done it earlier too.

A second to that General! Rommel had no part in any politics during the war. He was terrible at it, and all his subordinates and historians made note of it. So any political factors against Rommel can be thrown away.

Yes, Hitler did mistrust all of the Prussia upperclass.  The reason is Hitler was from Austria and immediatly dislike the "monocle wearing, mustache bearing" Prussians.

May I ask why you dislike Rommel so much?  He was a brilliant man who, once he found out of Hitlers plans, went against him and was murdered for it.

So Rommel turned against Hitler when he saw his true colours.

In 1926 Hitler published Mein Kampf telling the world of his intent, declaring Jews and Slavs subhuman and talking of conquering new lands in Russian for German colonisation. In 1932 he gained power, rounded up the free press and murdered them. In 1933 he opened the first concerntration camp as Dachau.

Rommel turned against Hitler in 1944 [if ever he really did]. Even a blind fool could have seen Hitler's true colours before then.

So to cast you in the role of Rommel, and the Ku Klux Klan or Orange County Skins in the role of of the Nazis.

I take it despite all the signs, all the racist murders, all the literature, you don't believe they really mean it, because,

"could anyone imagine anyone would do such terrible things?  NO!"

Ok: the General is saying despite 22 years of Hitler showing his true colours, Rommel didn't believe what Hitler would do anything bad because,

"could anyone imagine anyone would do such terrible things? "

So the same must surely apply to the General and  current right wing fanatics such as the Orange Country Skins or Ku Klux Klan. The General must believe the kkk or ocs aren''t really bad, for the same reason,

"could anyone imagine anyone would do such terrible things?"

Because if the General can see the kkk or ocs for what they are these days, he can't really claim Rommel couldn't see Hitler for what he was back then.

So he failed to notice a few thousand people in brown shirts running rampage through the street murdering people.

what was rommel choice after begining of war? surrender to brits or russians?

I will not call this as a good choice. did russian treat germans better? or did brits? Or USA? throwing a-bomb  over cities full of civilian is not much better than collecting civilians and killing them.

So why should Rommet help this guys?

So I take it.

If the US gets a Nazi government, they burn down congress, abolish democracy, send gangs of skinheads out to kill anyone who speaks against them, round up anyone who believes in democracy and execute them, organise children into a para-military, ban all black people from owning property, make them wear patches on their clothes to distinguish them and create concertration camps, then they start an unprovoked war against another country with the intent of genociding the population and colonising it.

You would fight for your country, because you're are fighting for your country not the regime?

"But many declined joining the military resistance because they foudn it dishonourable for a military person to betray its own leader, irregardless of the leaders failures and incompetence"-Temujin

Actually, Rommel and many other military leaders were involved in a plot to betray Hitler. They did not join the resistance but they did plan to kill or capture him.

"many germans didnt know about conc camps, and judging by this neither did rommel, so if you didnt know about all that stuff, if you, like most germans, thought the treaty of versailles was a disgrace for germany, and there was hitler, so good at defying the treaty.... would you support him, i think i would..."-cg rommel

There is a difference between thinking the Treaty of Versailles is a disgrace and thinking that Adolf Hitler would not commit genocide. He wrote about it in Mein Kampf. Of course he would kill Jews. Rommel did know that Hitler was killing many people, maybe not to the extent of over ten million. Still, Rommel should never be considered as innocent. If he did not want the killing, he should have turned on Hitler long before he did.

There's no evidence whatsoever he was involved in the plot to kill Hitler outside movie folklore. Hitler used the plot to eliminate hundreds of political opponents who had nothing to do with it, Rommel was just one of them.

Rommel was head of the Hitler youth school Neustadt where anti-semitism was a major part of the curriculum. He was also a member of Führer-Begleitbattalion the most fantically aryan part of the SS. No biography written of Rommel, no account of him by people who new him, nor his wife and his deny he was an anti-semite and disliked jews.

Being a racist and being a murderous racist are two different things. Rommel wasn't a murderous racist. 99% of members of the Ku Klux Klan aren't murderous racists. They're still pathetic and loathesome.