More- should Turkey join the EU???

THE TURK wrote:
"You are right. The main problem is that Turkish government wants to be a part of the EU. As you said, We Turkish citizens must solve this problem."
What is the problem? THe material and political benefits  not great enough? The material cost to turkey for complying to the EU to high?
 Can some turk answer these without mentioning anything about 1 percieved threats, 2 pride and other unmeasurables, 3 stuff that happend decades ago that are not reality today.

There's been a lot of suspicious bombings lately, not just in Kurdistan and, obviously not just by Turk soldiers. Remeber the SAS members caught with bombs and weapons in Iraq - and we can guess many others haven't just been spotted. Some seem to prefer throwing oil to the fire...

Originally posted by Phallanx Hmm, well I've mentioned, oppresion of Human Rights, disrespect towards religions, threat of war against a full member and neighbor that actually assisted Turkey instead of vetoing the talks, the fact that they don't recognize an already full member.... etc. a But this tops it all, NEVER had I ever believed I'd read anything remotely close to this.. I have always been considered an anti-Turk nationalist, let's see what I get titled this time...

Well, I'm glad somebody keeps an eye on Turkey.
All we need now, is a member that observes the Human Rights situation in Greece, that according to Amnesty International is not ideal either, with the same vigilance, and we will be kept abreast with all the dodgy deeds in the Aegean.
Any volunteers?

Originally posted by Komnenos Originally posted by Phallanx Hmm, well I've mentioned, oppresion of Human Rights, disrespect towards religions, threat of war against a full member and neighbor that actually assisted Turkey instead of vetoing the talks, the fact that they don't recognize an already full member.... etc. a But this tops it all, NEVER had I ever believed I'd read anything remotely close to this.. I have always been considered an anti-Turk nationalist, let's see what I get titled this time...   Well, I'm glad somebody keeps an eye on Turkey. All we need now, is a member that observes the Human Rights situation in Greece, that according to Amnesty International is not ideal either, with the same vigilance, and we will be kept abreast with all the dodgy deeds in the Aegean. Any volunteers?

i think that its strongly recommended that millions have their eyes on that what happens in turkey ,sure komnenos .dont be cynical but relistic.

Well it seems you really missed bashing the bad old Fascist and you finally got your minute of glory..
Congratz Komnenos, once again you resort to the same childish name calling, by posting innuendos about Germany and fascism...

Call it bashing, call it fascistic mentality, call it whatever you like.

FACTS are FACTS !!!!

KURDS have been oppressed with the excuse of PKK, this article PROVES that not only is the opression of Human Righs INTENTIONAL but that once again, as so many other times in the history of the country in question.
They use PROPAGANDA to EXTERMINATE minorities..

Call it fascist, call it bashing, I couldn't care less about your opinion about me and my posts, since I call it what it is, and that is REALITY !!!

So take off those predjudice glasses you're wearing and look into the face of it.. It won't hurt you know, just might get you in touch with a new feeling, which is hate against any form of oppression...

Oh, next time please direct your issues about my post directly towards me and not by innuendos through post towards others..


Edited by Phallanx

Originally posted by Phallanx The sergeants were almost lynched by upset Kurds but were rescued by Turkish police. Kurds broke into the car in which the sergeants had carried out their attack on the bookstore and they found WEAPONS, BOMBS, DEATH-LISTS, WRITTEN PLANS, MAPS, etc. Everything was documented by Kurds at the scene. The Kurds also manage to get their hands on one of the sergeants military ID and their pictures were taken before the police managed to rescue the sergeants. The sergeants later confessed during interrogation to the Turkish Republican Prosecutor of Semdinli that they had carried out the attack on the bookstore, which killed one person and seriously wounded another one. Lo and behold! They ALSO confessed that they had carried out the bomb attack on November 1 outside a military residency in the city that injured 23 people, among them 3 Turkish police officers, 4 Turkish soldiers and 16 Kurdish civilians. http://cryptome.org/

Are you saying that Turkish security forces are killing their own friends? Do not be ridiculous.

They did not confess anything mentinoned in the news. This news is wrong. But they are being interrogated by security forces. It is true that it has been found weapons and maps but no such things as death-lists and bombs. 

It is normal security forces carrying weapons or having maps with them. What is wrong with this?

They were around the scene and most probably the attack was conducted to kill them. But since they were in civil cloths and since they seem foreigner to locals or they made some suspicious behaviors they seemed suspected to locals.

We have to wait the consequences of interrogations or if they sent to court, the decison.

Phallanx, in your country people are assumed guilty without going to court?

Alparslan

Well, OK, for the sake of argument, I'll say that this wasn't a staged attack to kill several people and blame it on the PKK.

Then please find a logical explanation for the name list, a list that isn't only mentioned in the above article (since 'dozame' may be considered biased propaganda) but also in zaman and rantburg (that also gives the names of the JIS officers) among other news sites

While I will agree that it is logical for a member of security forces to be armed, I can't find any reason to keep the arms hidden in the trunk of the car and not on or near him (see BBC)

But anyway, you're right, I'll wait for the jury to decide.. and then restart it

DayI

That wasn't what I said or at least if it seems that way, I didn't intend it to sound like that.
I was implying that, should these two bombings be proven to be the action of the Turkish Gendarmerie Intelligence Service (JIS), then the PKK have been implicated for no reason in a number of such attacks and the real terrorists are the (JIS) and those behind them..

Phallanx,

Such an event took place and it is under inspection. Most probably it was the plan of a secret ultra-nationalist clique in the military. BUT, claiming that the all Kurdish problem and the deaths related to it are all consequences of a state conspiracy like you is bullsh*t. Conspiracies only work for flaming the already-existing struggless. So your one-dimensional analysis of the Kurdish question that all deaths were caused by state is wrong. The real problem is much more complex...

Edited by kotumeyil

Originally posted by Phallanx hugo You and Komnenos may strive all you like, but these are petty attempts of bashing. Turkish members actually understood the significance of such an issue yet you two are far too thick-headed to understand it.. This is a rediculous comparison to what I provided, which is news that actually point to Turkish secret service forces being behind the deaths of thousands of lives, news that should worry each and every one of us. But you two simply out of predjudice can't comprehend it.. You two are honestly a waste of my time...

Take it as you wish, hater of oppression. I want to see how you apply the same level of scrutiny to your own nation. Your failure to do so will be proof that your intention of raising this issue has more to do with bias against Turkey than with any real interest in human rights.

And let's not confuse the tone that Turkish members have when discussing this issue with the loud, inflamatory tone that you have used so far.

In any case, there is very little that you can do to help the Kurds in Turkey, but there is a lot that you can do about helping the Roma in Greece.

When are you starting the thread on human right violations committed in Greece, hater of all kinds of oppression? The Roma need your help.

Phallanx,

I find you very amusing. Within the same page, you state things, take them back, twist them, and then restate them.

It seems that you can't handle people holding you responsible for what you say. When people do that, you are being persecuted. Amusing.

Let's review some of your contradictions:

Originally posted by last one The issue I brought up has absolutely NO connection to Human Right violations.

KURDS have been oppressed with the excuse of PKK, this article PROVES that not only is the opression of Human Righs INTENTIONAL but that once again, as so many other times in the history of the country in question. They use PROPAGANDA to EXTERMINATE minorities..

If were prejudiced against you, I would say that I caught you lying. Since I am not, I will say that I found an inconsistency in your argument.

I also find it very amusing how you presented yourself as an ardent 'hater of any form of oppression' when it comes to Turkish human right violations, look at your quote:

It won't hurt you know, just might get you in touch with a new feeling, which is hate against any form of oppression...

Yet you lose interest in oppression when it happens in Hellas.

You even claimed that there were only four pages on Greece on the Amnesty International report. If one copy-and-pastes the text on the website to a word document, the report on Greece is 76 pages.

Frankly, I don't worry too much about Human Right violations in Greece right now because I have those committed by the U.S. to focus on. I also don't want to offend or embarrass Greek members. I love Greek's ancient history, and almost all of my interactions with Greek people have been positive.

I just asked you to start that thread to see if it really was "the hatred to all kinds of oppression" that moved you to discussed at length human violations in Turkey or your prejudice against this country.

Your refusal to judge your own country using the same standards seems to indicate that it was your prejudice that makes you monitor Turkey so closely.

At least have the decency of stating that you are anti-Turkey. Then other members will know about your bias, and they will take that into account when reading your posts. Sure, people may think less of you for holding these views, but if holding hatred against Turkey is so important in your life, then you must be prepared to take responsibility for them.

On the other hand, your cries about being persecuted seem to indicate that you don't want to be held responsible. If it bothers you so much to looked down for holding hateful views and ideals, why don't you give them up then?

And one more thing stop hiding your anti-Turkish sentiments behind a false "hatred for all kinds of oppression." It is sickening to use this sentiment to hide prejudice.