Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhy does Serbia hold onto Montenegro?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 10>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
ill_teknique View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why does Serbia hold onto Montenegro?
    Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 12:33

Originally posted by Jay.

Ill_Teknique, you're calling him a cetnik?
Why can't you admit that your ancesstors were Sirbi!!
How can you even call yourself a Turk? Turks converted your ancesstors who were once Serbs...and btw, don't ever say "cetnik" again, capiche?

 

I am a Bosanac.  On my moms side i have turkish ancestry and do not see why I should hide it or be ashamed of it. I consider my self a Bosanac not a Turk.  And no we were never srbi its just some orthodox seljaci in the 19th began thinking they are serbs because they share a common religion. 

 

And if you are a real serb you will not be offended by the term cetnik because you are not one

 

I have plenty serbian friends here that will attest to that.
Back to Top
ill_teknique View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 12:34
Originally posted by YuGo

You on the other hand, do make a pretty good Balija.. even if it isn't my intention you will probably take that as a complement!

 

i use that as my nickname on myspace

Back to Top
Surbel View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 12:58
 From your  moms side,is that the  only one?

 ""Seljaci began thinking they are Serbs""

 Why not Vietnamese???
 Or Russians,they are orthodox too,or Bulgars???

 ""I consider my self a Bosanac not a Turk.""

 If you decler that you are African,thats fine by me too. You can be whatever you want,Bosniak,Turk,African....  just  don't be a lier!

 
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Back to Top
ill_teknique View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:06

Originally posted by Surbel

 From your  moms side,is that the  only one?

 ""Seljaci began thinking they are Serbs""

 Why not Vietnamese???
 Or Russians,they are orthodox too,or Bulgars???

 ""I consider my self a Bosanac not a Turk.""

 If you decler that you are African,thats fine by me too. You can be whatever you want,Bosniak,Turk,African....  just  don't be a lier!

 

 

i dont get it
Back to Top
ill_teknique View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:08

Originally posted by Jay.

And Surbel is just a proud Serbian.

 

there is a difference between pride and ultranationalism
Back to Top
Jay. View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 24-Nov-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1207 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:53
I don't think you understand the meaning of ultranationalism.. Extreme nationalism, especially when opposed to international cooperation.. Has he done anything of that nature? No .....
Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb
Back to Top
strategos View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 09-Mar-2005
Location: Denmark
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1096 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 19:32
Perhaps bosnians are nto serbians, and serbians are not bosnians. Maybe you all come from a distinct slavic common ancestors, and bosnian and serbian evolved differently. So to claim one is from the other probly is not accurate.
Back to Top
RomiosArktos View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 19:45
The history of the two regions,Serbia and Bosnia is not quite the same especially after the Ottoman conquest.So their different history is something that can seperate the Bosnians and the Serbs.There is also another point,not all Muslims of Bosnia are of slavic origin.Yet, they may speak the same language(is it so?) but in terms of religion or historical memories they are seperate people.   
Back to Top
Surbel View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 20:46
Originally posted by RomiosArktos

The history of the two regions,Serbia and Bosnia is not quite the same especially after the Ottoman conquest.So their different history is something that can seperate the Bosnians and the Serbs.There is also another point,not all Muslims of Bosnia are of slavic origin.Yet, they may speak the same language(is it so?) but in terms of religion or historical memories they are seperate people.   


 Separate in religion only! Not even one other thing(big majority)
Still some old books exists,where they are corect dates what parts of country take the muslim religion. Religion came forcely,law taxes,to protect kids,cous  turks was only taken christin kids for Janicaris,even Mehmed Pasha Sokolovic came from a little vilage near Visegrad. He put his brother Orthodox priest to be the head of Serbian Orthodox Church in Kosovo.
 He build a bridge in Visegrad to remaind him on that.

 AustroHungaria anect Bosnia and Herzegovina 1908,but even before had big influence and was present there with army.
 Cous of their influence,a lot of muslims and orthodox belivers change a religion in chatolic. We have complet lists of counting 1835,19855...
 and we can see how numbers did change-but only in religion.

 Todays muslims in Bosnia,they were a little more worthet to Turks then others.

 Decleracion of AustroHungaria by 1902 all chatolics slavs  become Croats.
 In Herzegovina over night were divided the hole families.

 
 
 
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Back to Top
Mila View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 20:59
Originally posted by RomiosArktos

The history of the two regions,Serbia and Bosnia is not quite the same especially after the Ottoman conquest.So their different history is something that can seperate the Bosnians and the Serbs.There is also another point,not all Muslims of Bosnia are of slavic origin.Yet, they may speak the same language(is it so?) but in terms of religion or historical memories they are seperate people.   


Roma (Gypsies) in Bosnia and Herzegovina are typically Muslim and they would be the only Islamic group clearly separated from the rest of the population as a whole. There are areas where Slavs mixed more with people from other areas of the Ottoman Empire, like Mostar - but the overall impact of this has been shown to be fairly small.

Bosniaks have an average of about 45% Slavic genes, and a large portion of the rest made up of genes distinctive to the Balkans (ie "Illyrian"). Serbs have an average of 35% and Croats 45%. There are regions where this rises significantly - for example, Dalmatia and Herzegovina, where Croats both have in the high 70%'s of Slavic genes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks#Genetic_analysis_of_in digenousness

Bosnian and Croatian are the same languages but Bosnian has a vocabulary infused with words from other languages. Bosnians say "mahala" for neighborhood, for example, and use near English names for months (Novembar, Decembar, etc.).

Both Bosnian and Croatian are written with the Latin script and we use the J emphasis which Serbs don't use. Vrijeme (Bos/Cro) instead of Vreme (Ser), Svijet instead of Svet, etc.

All Muslims in Bosnia speak the same language, yes.


Edited by Mila
Back to Top
Mila View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 21:09
Here's something fun for you, Romios.

A demonstration courtesy of Saban and Selma.
Back to Top
Surbel View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 21:19
 Because of Vuk Karadzic Serb Lingual Reformator,he made a language what is today known.
 In south slavic group exist three diferent dialekts:
-Kajkavskilovenia,North West Croatia

-Cakavski:Central and west Croatia(from origin Croatian language)
 In todays schools they use three diferent dialekts and trying to mixed them.

-Stokavski:It's diveded in another three diferent dialekts:
 ~ Ekavicalavonia,Vojvodina,central Serbia
 ~ Ijekavica:Bosna,Herzegovina,south west Serbia,Montenegro
 ~ Ikavicaalmatia,Lika
 
 Vuk Karadzic for the first time(Mila even doesn't know that) use the letter    "J" before that was "JOT" like Russians.

 Todays Russians easyer can reed our old books,better then us.
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 23:51
Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.

EDIT: What does cetnik mean?

Edited by Omar al Hashim
Back to Top
Mila View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 00:00
A Cetnik is a Serbian Royalist, Omar. Officially they want to return the Serbian monarchy to power but were defeated during the Second World War by the Partisans, who were also overwhelmingly Serbian, who instead established a socialist state.

However, much like Nazi no longer refers to a national socialist, these days Cetnik has entirely different meanings. All of those Serbs who were charged and/or convicted of war crimes and genocide during the wars in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo called themselves and were known by their victims as Cetniks. So, for most people, that's what the term now means - a fascist Serbian nationalist who supports the genocide either by openly praising it or denying it ever took place.

It's different from being a Serbian nationalist, which usually refers to someone who loves everything Serbian more than anything else but not at the expense of others.

The two terms, however, are switched quite often.

The Croatian equivalent is Ustasa although their war criminals during the 1992-1995 war very rarely referred to themselves as such. There is no Bosnian equivalent - people will just say terrorist, fundamentalist, extremist, and any of the other terms commonly used for other Muslim nationalists.


Edited by Mila
Back to Top
Socrates View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 04:10

Originally posted by Mila

A Cetnik is a Serbian Royalist, Omar. Officially they want to return the Serbian monarchy to power but were defeated during the Second World War by the Partisans, who were also overwhelmingly Serbian, who instead established a socialist state.

However, much like Nazi no longer refers to a national socialist, these days Cetnik has entirely different meanings. All of those Serbs who were charged and/or convicted of war crimes and genocide during the wars in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo called themselves and were known by their victims as Cetniks. So, for most people, that's what the term now means - a fascist Serbian nationalist who supports the genocide either by openly praising it or denying it ever took place.

It's different from being a Serbian nationalist, which usually refers to someone who loves everything Serbian more than anything else but not at the expense of others.

The two terms, however, are switched quite often.

The Croatian equivalent is Ustasa although their war criminals during the 1992-1995 war very rarely referred to themselves as such. There is no Bosnian equivalent - people will just say terrorist, fundamentalist, extremist, and any of the other terms commonly used for other Muslim nationalists.

Those guys from the 90's weren't chetniks-just used it as a front cover.And the Croatian ustasha is used widely  among croats - i have a chance too see their channels-and they say that chetnik's were the serbian ustasha's(pathetic)...I saw a video where a croatian official says to the soldiers:''What r u? Say it-USTASHE-there's nothing wrong to it!!"Extremely rare to encounter some ustasha's in croatia-especially in the ustasha concerts where tens of thousands of people r present

Posto teqnique moze, mogu i ja: reci kugla!



Edited by Socrates
Back to Top
Socrates View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 04:18

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Coming into this thread having little knowledge of the ethnic differences in the Balkans excluding religion. I have to say that the Bosniak (? Bosniak is the ethnic group of people who live in Bosnia yes?) arguement is much better than the Serbian one.
I have been convinced that the Bosnians are not nor were ever Serbs.

EDIT: What does cetnik mean?

And what do u know about history of balcans?Do u know that r languages r the same?I think u're supporting them because they're muslims...in fact i'm 100% sure that u are.What book about Serbia or Bosnia and their history have u ever read?I'm sure I know more of your country then you know of mine( or bosnia)...
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 04:29

Still some old books exists,where they are corect dates what parts of country take the muslim religion. Religion came forcely,law taxes,to protect kids,cous  turks was only taken christin kids for Janicaris,even Mehmed Pasha Sokolovic came from a little vilage near Visegrad.

You  are talking rubish, bosniaks as taken devsirhmes even they  were muslim.(with bosniak wishes) So this christian kid thing is not true.

even Mehmed Pasha Sokolovic came from a little vilage near Visegrad. He put his brother Orthodox priest to be the head of Serbian Orthodox Church in Kosovo.
 He build a bridge in Visegrad to remaind him on that.

so he know, his family and his race.

That  discussion  is  stupid, no nation happened one day. why  should  bosniaks  should do.

Back to Top
RomiosArktos View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 13-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 05:54
Originally posted by Mila


All Muslims in Bosnia speak the same language, yes.


No,Mila,I meant whether the Muslim Bosnians and the Serbs in Bosnia or Serbia speak the same language.Can a Bosnian understand a Serb native speaker and vice versa?

All Muslims in Bosnia are not probably of Slavic origin.To me seems logical that there were Muslims from all over the empire attracted to Bosnia,since it was a military frontier for the Otomans.These people did not probably leave their place after the collapse of the Ottoman Caliphate.
Back to Top
Surbel View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 31-Dec-2005
Location: Nepal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 06:52
Originally posted by Mortaza

Still some old books exists,where they are corect dates what parts of country take the muslim religion. Religion came forcely,law taxes,to protect kids,cous  turks was only taken christin kids for Janicaris,even Mehmed Pasha Sokolovic came from a little vilage near Visegrad.

You  are talking rubish, bosniaks as taken devsirhmes even they  were muslim.(with bosniak wishes) So this christian kid thing is not true.

even Mehmed Pasha Sokolovic came from a little vilage near Visegrad. He put his brother Orthodox priest to be the head of Serbian Orthodox Church in Kosovo.
 He build a bridge in Visegrad to remaind him on that.

so he know, his family and his race.

That  discussion  is  stupid, no nation happened one day. why  should  bosniaks  should do.



 Your posting is rubish. To put some oppinion on the table,you must know at least something.
 Everything i wrote is true.
 Before 2nd world war in Bosnia and Herzegovina there were two nations and three diferent religion or maby is something to hard to understand for you. We sad,that people carrying their religion in the bag.

 Before didn't exist nation with name Bosniaks!!! Cous country has the other region too if you don't know that is HERZEGOVINA.

 In Serbia muslims after 1991 start to call them self Bosniaks
They were never born,never lived,their roots are not fron Bosnia.

 But it was harder for them to accept the reality that they are Serbs with muslim religion instead they became Bosniaks to feel more comfortable.
 But that wasn't the case in Montenegro,there live muslims too. But you not gonna hear them say "i'm a Bosniak"

 The same surname as maine has a lot of doctors in Sarajevo Hospitals and they are comming from the same area as me!
 
When your heart is empty,your
mind is worth nothing.
anonimus
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 07:13

ah forget  it, wasting my  time,

no bosniak  built mosque at baghdat after ww2.

It is cristal clear, bosniaks were calling themself  as bosniaks, even place like baghdat.

 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.