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Nick1986
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Topic: Was Jesus a Buddhist? Posted: 13-Oct-2011 at 20:13 |
During the 19th century a Russian journalist visited a Buddhist monastery in Ladakh and read a manuscript describing the life of a monk who lived centuries ago called Issa. As a young man, it is believed Jesus encountered Therevada monks in Judea and went back east with them, studying in India until he reached the age of 30. After either faking his death at the crucifixion or having someone else die in his place, he apparently went to Kashmir with his mother, married and had children. He called himself Yuz Asaf and died aged 125. His tomb in Srinigar has become a tourist attraction and is currently housed in a purpose-built building
Edited by Nick1986 - 13-Oct-2011 at 22:27
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 13-Oct-2011 at 21:34 |
No. As the available evidence-sources; other then theory.. legend... myth and or conjecture... that is associated with the Christ or the Buddha, imo, doesn't support it. And certainly insofar as religious and biblical archaeology and theological historians in the mainstream research... it does not. Which includes the bios by the scholar of the Buddhacarita... Aśvaghoṣa or the next most famous the Lalitavistara Sūtra. Or the following which were all compiled from the 2Ce-4thCe. Well after the death of the Christ. One would presume that the association of a Hebrew holy man from the west who had traveled east to study the tenets would have been worth of inclusion. If for no other reason then the novelty or as an example of proof that the teachings had attracted many and diverse intellectualists from far away. Now that does not say however that there are not some remarkable similarities between the two... even given the difference in time and distance. There were...... and each remains the giant in the theology/ies, doctrines and denominations that have been formulated. You might find this of interest.
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 14-Oct-2011 at 03:56
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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TheAlaniDragonRising
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Posted: 13-Oct-2011 at 23:44 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
During the 19th century a Russian journalist visited a Buddhist monastery in Ladakh and read a manuscript describing the life of a monk who lived centuries ago called Issa. As a young man, it is believed Jesus encountered Therevada monks in Judea and went back east with them, studying in India until he reached the age of 30. After either faking his death at the crucifixion or having someone else die in his place, he apparently went to Kashmir with his mother, married and had children. He called himself Yuz Asaf and died aged 125. His tomb in Srinigar has become a tourist attraction and is currently housed in a purpose-built building |
Oh yes I think I remember this story, and somewhat interesting. What makes it so is that ideas Jesus was preaching were not common in the holy land, but they were known in Buddhism. Now we can ask where he got these ideas from. The thing is if we say they were from God then we are also probably say that God chose Buddhism too and first to convey these teachings.
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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 04:28 |
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising
Originally posted by Nick1986
During the 19th century a Russian journalist visited a Buddhist monastery in Ladakh and read a manuscript describing the life of a monk who lived centuries ago called Issa. As a young man, it is believed Jesus encountered Therevada monks in Judea and went back east with them, studying in India until he reached the age of 30. After either faking his death at the crucifixion or having someone else die in his place, he apparently went to Kashmir with his mother, married and had children. He called himself Yuz Asaf and died aged 125. His tomb in Srinigar has become a tourist attraction and is currently housed in a purpose-built building | Oh yes I think I remember this story, and somewhat interesting. What makes it so is that ideas Jesus was preaching were not common in the holy land, but they were known in Buddhism. Now we can ask where he got these ideas from. The thing is if we say they were from God then we are also probably say that God chose Buddhism too and first to convey these teachings. |
I don't think you can jump the gun and say that Jesus' teachings are Buddhist per se even given the similarities. I would think that Jesus preached a message which really focused on forgivance and peace, not to say that similar teachings were not common amongst the Jews (albeit with less focus on those specific values).
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Timidi mater non flet
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medenaywe
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 07:12 |
self sacrifice element is common inside both of them.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 11:29 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
self sacrifice element is common inside both of them. |
True, but all the cultural references in the gospels are enitirely local Hebrew with some Greco Roman overtures from the occupying Romans. Likewise, the theology of Jeus is entirely revelatory Abrahamic.
In short, with the possible exception of the singular John 10:16 reference "I have other sheep in other pastures" there is nothing either culturally or theologicaly in the gospels or in he following material (Letters, Acts of the Apostles) to suggest that Jesus ever left the local area, much less travelled to India.
Originally posted by Baal Melqart
I don't think you can jump the gun and say that Jesus' teachings are Buddhist per se even given the similarities. I would think that Jesus preached a message which really focused on forgivance and peace, not to say that similar teachings were not common amongst the Jews (albeit with less focus on those specific values).
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Well said.
Edited by Cryptic - 14-Oct-2011 at 11:39
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medenaywe
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 12:32 |
Yes J.C. and Buda are similar in two principles:1.follow me2.and all have a reason!It is very peculiar way of being alpha unit avoiding your personal sexuality or even deny it!Male virgin was declared for the first time in New Testament.
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unclefred
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 16:17 |
I heard Siddhartha was a Jew.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 20:00 |
A lot of Jesus' teachings are similar to Buddhism: turning the other cheek is ahimsa, bodhisattvas and saints are both depicted with radient halos, Christians worship Mary as a mother-goddess, and both Christian and Buddhist monks practise meditation, vows of chastity and poverty. It would seem that Christ gained enlightenment while on the cross and sought to share his discoveries with the disciples, none of whom understood and instead worshipped Jesus as a demigod
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Cryptic
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 22:56 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
A lot of Jesus' teachings are similar to Buddhism: turning the other cheek is ahimsa, bodhisattvas and saints are both depicted with radient halos, Christians worship Mary as a mother-goddess, and both Christian and Buddhist monks practise meditation, vows of chastity and poverty. |
One could easily say the same about Christianity and Jainism or Hinduism and Sufi Islam. The theology of Jesus was totally revelatory Abrahamic. Buddhism is a dharma based, not Abrahamic religion. In the end, the similarities between Christianity and Buddhism are note worthy, but they are only skin deep.
Edited by Cryptic - 14-Oct-2011 at 22:57
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lirelou
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Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 22:56 |
Was Jesus exposed to Buddhist thought in his lifetime? Given that Buddhists could be found as close as what is today Iran, I think it quite possible. But being aware of Buddhist principles, and even the active study of Buddhism, does not one a Buddhist make. And strictly speaking, gods and goddesses do not exist in Buddhism. Likewise, self-sacrifice to the point of ending one's life is alien to core Buddhist beliefs. The many warrior monks of Korean, Chinese, and Vietnamese history were not, strictly speaking, good Buddhists. Rather they were respected monks whose worldly concerns turned them from the path of enlightenment. The goal of Buddhism is not to become a good Buddhist, but rather to be a Buddha. Not too different from Christian theology which emphasizes that the road is rocky, and not all can continue upon it. And the goal of every Christian is not to be a 'good' Christian, but rather to emulate Christ in thought, word, and deed, thereby becoming 'Christ-like'.
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Menumorut
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 15:53 |
No. The Christian teachings (no matter who is their author) is the opposite of Budhism in that
Budhism teaches that people must get rid of their personalities (character) and that in Nirvana people will be absorbed in the Absolute. That means, the dissapearing of the person. Buddhism is antipersonalist or depersonalizing.
Christianity is fundamentally personal, teaches about God - Person and humans as persons that can live only in the community of other persons.
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Karalem
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 16:57 |
The big difference between eastern and western religions is that in the former there is no God as such. There is a God above Jesus while Buddha is the messenger of the people. He is not the messenger of God. When Christianity was transferred to India it was absorbed to accommodate eastern perspective and branched into Buddhism and Hinduism.
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 21:25 |
A lot of Jesus' teachings are similar to Buddhism: turning the other
cheek is ahimsa, bodhisattvas and saints are both depicted with radient
halos, Christians worship Mary as a mother-goddess, and both Christian
and Buddhist monks practise meditation, vows of chastity and poverty. It
would seem that Christ gained enlightenment while on the cross and
sought to share his discoveries with the disciples, none of whom
understood and instead worshipped Jesus as a demigod |
Well, the depictions of saints by those who practiced christianity has in my opinion no relevance when speaking of similarities between both religions because we know that Jesus himself never told anyone to make such drawings or depictions. About the way in which Jesus is worshipped I would agree that there is quite a striking similarity between Jesus and Buddha and let me even add Zoroaster to the list. Obviously, all Christians would reject the idea that out of excessive adoration, they ended up worshipping Jesus as a demi-god. But then that belongs to its own separate topic... Budha for example is sometimes worshipped as a god although he only proclaimed himself to be a teacher (if you see buddha kill him!), the same goes zith Zarathustra who claimed to be a philosopher rather than a messenger.
The big difference between eastern and western religions is that in the
former there is no God as such. There is a God above Jesus while Buddha
is the messenger of the people. He is not the messenger of God. When
Christianity was transferred to India it was absorbed to accommodate
eastern perspective and branched into Buddhism and Hinduism. |
Both Buddhism and Hinduism predate Christianity by at least 5 centuries.
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Timidi mater non flet
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 23:00 |
I don't think so...there are too many differences between what Jesus thought and Buddism. The roots of his teachings are undoubtedly in Judaism, morality and all, God, etc. There is no one god in Buddhism, and then the main idea of Buddhism is breaking the cycle of being born again and again; hence Buddhism is cyclic, while Christianity is an eschatological; this is such a major difference that I cannot possibly see one coming from the other. Besides, Jesus didn't preach giving up the earthly life in order to gain salvation, he preached morality; the monastic ideal that can be connected with Buddhism didn't come from Jesus, but was developed later. Jesus was a moral teacher, not philosopher like Buddha, nor he was the only one who claimed to be the Messiah, so he was not an isolated case so improbable that the roots of his ideas have to be searched for a continent away.
This is even not taking in account the timeline difference that Centrix talked about; taking this in mind the chance of such possibility seems next to zero. Which doesn't mean that some other Jew called Issa didn't make it to India - after all people move around all the time and Issa is not a unique name in Judea to say that there was only one person could possibly bear such a name. But if such person existed he wasn't the Jew Jesus we know from the gospels; and the Jesus's teachings are a very logical continuation of the mainstream Judaism, not Buddhist ideas.
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 23:21 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
Yes J.C. and Buda are similar in two principles:1.follow me2.and all have a reason!It is very peculiar way of being alpha unit avoiding your personal sexuality or even deny it!Male virgin was declared for the first time in New Testament.
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I have to disagree with that - first, Jesus didn't preach avoidance or denying of sexuality, this was Paul's idea, and whoever proclaimed his a male virgin did that on his own responsibility. The gospels were written by others, so if they proclaimed him a virgin this has nothing to do with Jesus himself. t one Jesus may as well have been married, we have no way to prove it one way or another. All we know is that he never preached any kind of monasticism, or denying of married life. As for the sacrificial element - Buddha never said he would self-sacrificed himself, nor he said that anyone should sacrifice themselves, he talked about separation from worldly passion that doesn't exclude married life; just psychological detachment from it. The whole stress on the sacrificial element in Christianity came after Christ, with the Patristic philosphers, aka "Alexandrian School" - in fact they pretty much built Christianity up on a mixed base of Greek philosophy, splash of Judaism and the gospels, that were written in Greek and heavily influenced by Greek worldviews. Jesus himsels was talking about his self-sacrifice, not that everyone should do so; "Sell all you have and follow me" was a call for followers, teachers on morality, not call to detach yourself from the world. Buddhism's message is mostly about detachment and killing if all passion; while Christianity is built on passion; Jesus was passion himself - passion for morality, it oozes out through his /supposedly/ words in the gospels. So I don't see much similarities between both ways of thought.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 23:28 |
Originally posted by Karalem
When Christianity was transferred to India it was absorbed to accommodate eastern perspective and branched into Buddhism and Hinduism.
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To my knowledge Indian Christianity (both ancient and modern practices) has remained almost entirely Abrahamic.
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 15-Oct-2011 at 23:38 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
A lot of Jesus' teachings are similar to Buddhism: turning the other cheek is ahimsa, bodhisattvas and saints are both depicted with radient halos, Christians worship Mary as a mother-goddess, and both Christian and Buddhist monks practise meditation, vows of chastity and poverty. It would seem that Christ gained enlightenment while on the cross and sought to share his discoveries with the disciples, none of whom understood and instead worshipped Jesus as a demigod |
Those similarities though are only on the surface and most of then didn't start with Jesus. The halos are an iconographic trait that started in byzantium, centuries after Jesus; Jesus never talked about meditation, but about prayer, and the ideas of both are very different - meditation is a way to enlighten yourself through concentration, while prayer is a conversation with god-the-creator. The vow of chastity wasn't an idea of Jesus, it developed like a century ofter he was gone. Jesus didn't preach poverty, but selling your stuff to give it to the poor - not that one has to be poor to start with, then if would be useless because one cannot seel his possessions and help the poor if he is poor to start with. On the cross Jesus didn't gain an enlightment, but talked to god-his-father and sacrificed himself like a lamb to gain salvation for others - this is a very Jewish idea /the sacrifice of the lamb. What did Jesus himself teach - follow the laws, the 10 commandments, don't get divorced, whatever is in one's mind is as good as done, all moral laws. He never taught anything like enlightment, or nirvana, etc; this was not his line. What happened after death according him was hell or acceptance by god, he being his son - this has nothing in common with what Buddha stood for /detachment, self-enlightment, nirvana as freedom from births/. The very idea is self-enlightening yourself would be seen as utmost pride in Christianity /and would be condemned/, where the faith in god and following him is the key to salvation by the same god; the very core idea is that god saves, not person saves himself. Jesus talked about god taking care of his children, like birds and flowers - this is not self-reliance /self-enlightment, like in Buddhism/, but reliance on god and his rules. So, I don't see how possibly one could have been developed from the other; this is my opinion, of course, I don't want to press it on anyone.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 19:34 |
How do we know Jesus' interpretation of Nirvana wasn't twisted to become the modern conception of Paradise by disciples like Paul who didn't understand his message? Buddhism doesn't deny the existence of gods (indeed, you can be reincarnated as a lesser-god or angel). Jesus' last words: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? could have stemmed from the realisation that God was unable to intervene in the human world
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Karalem
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Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 13:08 |
Originally posted by Cryptic
Originally posted by Karalem
When Christianity was transferred to India it was absorbed to accommodate eastern perspective and branched into Buddhism and Hinduism.
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To my knowledge Indian Christianity (both ancient and modern practices) has remained almost entirely Abrahamic. |
which means it stayed more conservative than European Christianity.
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