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Gallipoli
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Topic: Themistokles or Leonidas? Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 04:50 |
Leonidas was a battlefield hero with guts more than brains while Themistokles managed to defeat the almighty Persian navy between Attica and Salamis with great tactics. I go for Themis
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Yiannis
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 05:29 |
Themistokles for me as well. Not only he managed to defeat the Persians but also managed to unite Pelloponesians and the rest of the Greeks, a more difficult task IMO.
His reply to the Spartan admiral Euryviades who was the commanding officer of the fleet (the Spartans always wanted to rule) remained proverbial through history:
Themistokles wanted to fight in the narrow straits of the Saronic gulf but Euryviades disagreed. Themistokles was insisting so much that Euryviades threatened to hit him. Themistokles replied "hit me but listen to me". Sounds better in Greek: "Pataxon men, akouson de"
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Rebelsoul
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 05:41 |
Different people, nothing to compare here.
I do like Themistokles as well, but so I am so politically inclined to consider Alkiviades 10times greater than Alexander so...
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Gallipoli
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:10 |
Elleniki Demokratia
Right choice
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Rebelsoul
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:18 |
Actually, Αθηναϊκή Δημοκρατία (or, if you don't have Greek characters, Athinaiki Democratia - Demos Atheneon, if you wish to stick to the correct naming too  .
I do like Alkiviades, for another reason: in a book I am reading right now he is described as lover of many women (and few men too) an avid drinker, a renowned opsofagos and a really wild party animal... while at the same time he had the mightiest political mind in the ancient world... quite a man, indeed.
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Gallipoli
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:20 |
I wish they could symbolize Themis during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics...many (including me) believe that he saved democracy from distruction...
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BattleGlory
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Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 16:32 |
Themistokles does not get the respect he should in Herodotos' Histories. He was easily the better commander.
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~If you don't know history, you don't know anything.
~Time can change me, but I can't change time.
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Gallipoli
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Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 07:40 |
Themistokles was later sent to exile because some wise-ass Greeks at that time decided that he was presenting a danger to the establishment. They thought he would turn out to be a "Despot".
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ihsan
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Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 17:49 |
Themistokles for sure. That son of a vegetable seller defeated the Akhemenid navy while Leonidas only slowed down the advance of the Akhemenid army.
I wish they could symbolize Themis during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics... |
What exactly was in the opening ceremony? I was in Anamur so I couldn't watch it
many (including me) believe that he saved democracy from distruction... |
Athenian "direct democracy" has got almost nothing to do with today's so-called "(indirect) democracy", except for some obscure small Swiss cantons. And it really doesn't matter much if democracy of Athens survived or not, it surely didn't exist all throughout history
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Gallipoli
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Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 03:42 |
Bullsh*t ihsan
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ihsan
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:47 |
Please reply seriously.
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BattleGlory
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 17:40 |
I don't know about other democracies at the moment, but our Founding Fathers were scared to death of Athenian "mob rule" democracy and instead founded our republic based on Rome and Sparta mostly.
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~If you don't know history, you don't know anything.
~Time can change me, but I can't change time.
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Yiannis
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 07:38 |
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Guests
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 15:28 |
It is true that Alcibiades is the most colourful personalities in all Ancient hellenic history. Extremely handsome or womanish, highly intelligent or tremendously cunning, valiant or ferocious, indivialistic or downright egoistic, epicurean (kinda before time) or lustful and dissipated, full of successes or abounding in failures, such are the Vividness of his character. I think he is the very one that stands for both the genius and the vices of the Ancient Greece. I have a feeling that in our time when values have become ambiguous, this Alcibiades will soon be the Idol (well, I will be the first to adore him , just kick Aristides' arse).
Edited by Lohendrin
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Evildoer
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Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 17:03 |
Themosticles, because he acutally managed to beat back the Persian navy while Leonidas only managed to held back the Persians for a few days and showed the Greeks that they can be weakened.
Edited by Evildoer
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YusakuJon3
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Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 08:29 |
While I would've chosen Leonidas for his part in
Thermopylae, Themistocles does take credit for actually having turned
back the Persian army (with the aid of Spartan allies). The two
are really hard to compare.
One dies fighting alongside his men, holding off a massive
army for only a few days (until they are able to get help from an
ally); the other goes on to lead a coalition against the invading
enemy, eventually driving them out of Greek territory.
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Gopinath
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Posted: 30-May-2014 at 05:11 |
There is no doubt The King Leonidas is Great.......Because he sacrificed his life...In the case Themistocles of course his is a Legend because he own many wars...
I went beyound the movies.... I came to know that if we see Themistocles ending days he disliked by his own people Athenian's and Spartans and he ran away from Greece and he stood infront of Artaxerxes, the son of Xerxes and he promised to help him conquer Greece.
If see the attitude of both...My point of you The King Leonidas is Great.......
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