Themistokles or Leonidas?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=304
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 23:28
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Topic: Themistokles or Leonidas?
Posted By: Gallipoli
Subject: Themistokles or Leonidas?
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 04:50
Leonidas was a battlefield hero with guts more than brains while Themistokles managed to defeat the almighty Persian navy between Attica and Salamis with great tactics. I go for Themis 
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Replies:
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 05:29
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Themistokles for me as well. Not only he managed to defeat the Persians but also managed to unite Pelloponesians and the rest of the Greeks, a more difficult task IMO. His reply to the Spartan admiral Euryviades who was the commanding officer of the fleet (the Spartans always wanted to rule) remained proverbial through history: Themistokles wanted to fight in the narrow straits of the Saronic gulf but Euryviades disagreed. Themistokles was insisting so much that Euryviades threatened to hit him. Themistokles replied "hit me but listen to me". Sounds better in Greek: "Pataxon men, akouson de" ------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: Rebelsoul
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 05:41
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Different people, nothing to compare here. I do like Themistokles as well, but so I am so politically inclined to consider Alkiviades 10times greater than Alexander so... |
Posted By: Gallipoli
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:10
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Elleniki Demokratia Right choice ------------- |
Posted By: Rebelsoul
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:18
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Actually, Αθηναϊκή Δημοκρατία (or, if you don't have Greek characters, Athinaiki Democratia - Demos Atheneon, if you wish to stick to the correct naming too I do like Alkiviades, for another reason: in a book I am reading right now he is described as lover of many women (and few men too |
Posted By: Gallipoli
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 06:20
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I wish they could symbolize Themis during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics...many (including me) believe that he saved democracy from distruction... ------------- |
Posted By: BattleGlory
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 16:32
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Themistokles does not get the respect he should in Herodotos' Histories. He was easily the better commander. ------------- ~If you don't know history, you don't know anything. ~Time can change me, but I can't change time. 
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Posted By: Gallipoli
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 07:40
Themistokles was later sent to exile because some wise-ass Greeks at that time decided that he was presenting a danger to the establishment. They thought he would turn out to be a "Despot". ------------- |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 17:49
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Themistokles for sure. That son of a vegetable seller defeated the Akhemenid navy while Leonidas only slowed down the advance of the Akhemenid army.
What exactly was in the opening ceremony? I was in Anamur so I couldn't watch it
Athenian "direct democracy" has got almost nothing to do with today's so-called "(indirect) democracy", except for some obscure small Swiss cantons. And it really doesn't matter much if democracy of Athens survived or not, it surely didn't exist all throughout history ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Gallipoli
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 03:42
Bullsh*t ihsan ------------- |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:47
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Please reply seriously. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: BattleGlory
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 17:40
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I don't know about other democracies at the moment, but our Founding Fathers were scared to death of Athenian "mob rule" democracy and instead founded our republic based on Rome and Sparta mostly. ------------- ~If you don't know history, you don't know anything. ~Time can change me, but I can't change time.
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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 07:38
Description here: http://www.livingroom.org.au/olympics/archives/opening_ceremony_live_commentary.php - http://www.livingroom.org.au/olympics/archives/opening_cerem ony_live_commentary.php
Photos here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/photo_galleries/3562846.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/photo_gallerie s/3562846.stm
or even better here: http://www.athens2004.com/en/ceremonyImgallery/redirect?date=8b2734e54c85ef00VgnVCM10000028130c0aRCRD - http://www.athens2004.com/en/ceremonyImgallery/redirect?date =8b2734e54c85ef00VgnVCM10000028130c0aRCRD
Enjoy!
------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 15:28
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It is true that Alcibiades is the most colourful personalities in all Ancient hellenic history. Extremely handsome or womanish, highly intelligent or tremendously cunning, valiant or ferocious, indivialistic or downright egoistic, epicurean (kinda before time) or lustful and dissipated, full of successes or abounding in failures, such are the Vividness of his character. I think he is the very one that stands for both the genius and the vices of the Ancient Greece. I have a feeling that in our time when values have become ambiguous, this Alcibiades will soon be the Idol (well, I will be the first to adore him, just kick Aristides' arse). ------------- |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 17:03
| Themosticles, because he acutally managed to beat back the Persian navy while Leonidas only managed to held back the Persians for a few days and showed the Greeks that they can be weakened. |
Posted By: YusakuJon3
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 08:29
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While I would've chosen Leonidas for his part in
Thermopylae, Themistocles does take credit for actually having turned
back the Persian army (with the aid of Spartan allies). The two
are really hard to compare. One dies fighting alongside his men, holding off a massive army for only a few days (until they are able to get help from an ally); the other goes on to lead a coalition against the invading enemy, eventually driving them out of Greek territory. ------------- "There you go again!" -- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s) |
Posted By: Gopinath
Date Posted: 30-May-2014 at 05:11
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There is no doubt The King Leonidas is Great.......Because he sacrificed his life... In the case Themistocles of course his is a Legend because he own many wars... I went beyound the movies.... I came to know that if we see Themistocles ending days he disliked by his own people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Athens - Athenian 's and Spartans and he ran away from Greece and he stood infront of Artaxerxes, the son of Xerxes and he promised to help him conquer Greece. If see the attitude of both...My point of you The King Leonidas is Great.......
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