Gaza flotilla activists or terrorists?

Israel is a criminal terrorist state, and one of the most oppressive in the world. It has turned Gaza into one huge ghetto, just like the Nazi's did. It is an apartheid state just as South Africa was. It violates every international law at will, and is the most threatening rogue state on the planet.

The terrorist government of Israel massacred 19 civilians who had every right to defend themselves and their ships when boarded by a hostile force in international waters.

The Nazi's fell, the racists in South Africa fell, and Israel, if it continues on this path, will eventually fall as well. History is quite clear on this, Israel cannot survive by making enemies of everyone.

Regarding the activists, Israel will say anything and everything to tarnish there image. If Israel is right, and these are all terrorists and they were carrying weapons to Gaza, THEN WHY HAS ISRAEL PREVENTED REPORTERS FROM SEEING THESE PASSENGERS, AND WHY HAS ISRAEL NOT SHOWN THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT ITS CLAIMS? As usual, Israel will continue to makes false claims, go on a publicity blitz on news networks world wide, keep spewing their propaganda, and not show any evidence.

The truth is clear, the facts dont lie. Israel can lie as much as it wants (and like it always does) but eventually, like the kid that cried wolf, people wont buy it anymore.

And by the way Cyrus, that picture you posted appears to be a fake.

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The Israeli navy began harassing the convoy when it was still well over 100 miles from Gaza, deep into international waters. As the ships drew closer the Israeli military attempted to disrupt their communications (journalists were reporting from on-board and a live video feed was streaming online) and began issuing threats. Finally, Israeli forces attacked, with soldiers descending from helicopters to board the ships. Initially Israel claimed that no activists were killed. It then performed an abrupt reversal, familiar to veterans of its clumsy rhetorical acrobatics during the Gaza massacre, reporting that at least 10 people were killed, but claiming that it was the peace activists who "attacked" first (as one commentator observed: " eculiar how Israel is always violently attacked but it's only the ‘attackers’ who die"). Thus news organisations reported that "[f]ighting broke out between" (via) the activists and the soldiers, as if unarmed peace activists could ever meaningfully "fight" highly-trained, heavily armed members of one of the most sophisticated militaries on the planet. The BBC went even further, intoning, over footage of what was clearly a direct attack on unarmed civilians, that the Israeli soldiers were attempting to "control passengers" (via). Eyewitness reports, by contrast, described how Israeli forces started shooting "the moment their feet hit the deck. They shot civilians asleep". "This was not a confrontation", they report, "[t]his was a massacre". An al-Jazeera journalist aboard the ship reported that "despite the white flag being raised, the Israeli Army is still shooting, still firing live munitions".

You can read more here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/31/871561/-Israel-massacres-unarmed-peace-activists


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 31-May-2010 at 11:41

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Israel has been surrounded by Muslim countries but the fact is that Muslims are not brave enough to fight against Israel face to face, all they can do is pray for fall of Israel or support some terrorist groups but Israel is strong enough to survive,

Well of course the Arab militaries cannot face the Israeli military face to face, its one of the best in the world and has been built up by Europe and the USA.

Israel cannot survive on its own, its heavily dependent on aid, both economic and political.

For example, did you know that there was a law passed in the USA in the 1970's that makes it illegal to refuse to do business with Israel?

Israel gets a heck of a lot of help!

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri  I think the world certainly needs Israel for the balance of power in the Middle East,

What balance of power? There is no balance of power in the Middle East, Israel dominates everyone  else.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri  unfortunately most of the people really don't know about the threat of real terrorists who kill themselves to kill others.

The threat of terrorism by individuals is minuscule compared to state terrorism. For example, Israel massacred 19 civilians today, that is more than the number of Israeli's that has ever been killed by rocket attacks from Gaza. So in one day, Israel killed more people that it had ever lost by rockets coming from Gaza...


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 31-May-2010 at 12:05

Originally posted by Cryptic The problem maybe is that unlike various Coast Guards all over the world, the Israelis do not have any non lethal weapons.  They just go from "stop please" to shooting with nothing in between. That is an internations incident waiting to happen Though the "peace protesters" were contrived, the Israelis could have tried to:   -Tear Gas, sonic blast, laser dazzle and water cannon the heck out of it. If it does not stop.....   -Disable the rudder (automatic cannon fire?).  I doubt that the ships rudder could take alot of punishment

First off, lets not forget that the flotilla was launched because of the humanitarian crisis as a result of the brutal siege on Gaza.

Second of all, Israel has no non-lethal weapons? You cant be serious, come on, you're trying to tell me that the Israeli's do not have rubber bullets or paintball guns at their disposal?

LASTLY, ALL THIS HAPPENED IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, ISRAEL HAD NO RIGHT TO INTERCEPT THE SHIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THE PASSENGERS HAD EVERY RIGHT TO RESIST THE ATTACK ON THEIR SHIP.

Exactly, the Israeli's claim there were weapons on board but the passengers used metal rods and sling shots to defend themselves from the Israeli aggression. WHERE ARE THE TERRORISTS ISRAEL? WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS?

Their ship was attacked in international waters and the passengers had every right to defend themselves and their vessels. What Israel did was piracy.

I hope the world wakes up.

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In the mean time, I dont know about other countries, but the Israeli propaganda machine is working full time over here in the United States. The lies and the spin on what happened absolutely disgusts me.

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Hey Cyrus, here are your "terrorists":

Partial list of passengers on board:

*USA

Greta Berlin. Co-founder of the Free Gaza Movement

Hedy Epstein (86) St. Louis, Missouri.

Katherine Elliott Sheetz (63) Woods Hole, Mass.. Registered Nurse. Master's degree.

David Schermerhorn (80) Deer Harbor, Washington State. Commercial film producer.

*UK

Alex Harrison (32) London. Solidarity worker.

Theresa McDermott (43) Edinburgh, Scotland. Logistics worker.

Denis Healey (55). Captain.

*IRELAND

Caoimhe Butterly 31. Human rights activist.

Mairead Maguire 66 Belfast. Nobel Peace Laureate.

Mark Daly 37 Kerry. Senator.

Shane Dillon (36) Dublin. Seafarer.

Fiachra O Luain 28 Carndonagh.

*HOLLAND

Annekarijn de Jong (29) Weesp. PhD researcher.

*BELGIUM

Griet M.A. Deknopper (Margarita) (32) Halle. Solidarity activist and teacher trainer.

Inge Neefs (26) Ghent. Studied educational sciences and holds a master in anthropology.

*GREECE

Giorgos Klontzas (39)

Agios Nikolaos. Professional diver and sailor.

*POLAND/UK

Ewa Jasiewicz (31) London, UK / Otwock, Poland. Journalist, community and union organizer, and solidarity worker.

*PALESTINE

Lubna Masarwa (32).

Huwaida Arraf (33) Ramallah, Palestine / Washington D.C. / Detroit, MI. JD. American University Washington College of Law. Twice been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nader El Sakka (58) Hamburg.

*GERMANY

Annette Groth 56 Berlin, Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag.

Inge D.M. Höger 59 Herford. Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag

Matthias Jochheim 61 Frankfurt. Physician and psychotherapist.

Prof. Dr. Norman Paech 72 Hamburg. Member of Parliament in Germany's Bundestag.

Edited by TheGreatSimba - 31-May-2010 at 13:47

I meant between Israel and terrorists.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Israel is probably the only country which fights against terrorists (Hamas, Hezbollah, ...) directly, it is clear that the USA and some other ones want to support this country because Israel's fight against terrorism is in fact one of the front lines of the global war against terrorism.

What are you talking about? The US and the West supported Israel even before Hamas or Hezbollah were founded. The first terrorist attack inside Israeli territory happened in the late 1980's, after decades of Israeli oppression.

There is no such thing as a "global war on terror", this is a made up term. Do you know how many terrorist organization the US supports/supported in the past?

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri I meant between Israel and terrorists.

There is absolutely no balance of power there, Israel has the upper hand completely. Look at the statistics, the ratio of civilians killed by Israel to Israeli civilians killed by terrorists is easily more than 10:1.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri By your definition, all states in the world are "terrorist states", do you know a non-terrorist state?! As you read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Israel Over 2.7 million foreign tourists in 2009 visited Israel (about one half of Israel's population), what did happen to them? Which one was killed? What do you expect someone to do against those one who want to support terrorists?

Yes, I do believe that most governments in the world are terror states.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba What are you talking about? The US and the West supported Israel even before Hamas or Hezbollah were founded. The first terrorist attack inside Israeli territory happened in the late 1980's, after decades of Israeli oppression.

You just don't know, read it: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+before+2000/Which+Came+First-+Terrorism+or+Occupation+-+Major.htm

Major Arab Terrorist Attacks against Israelis Prior to the 1967 Six-Day War

Jan 1, 1952 - Seven armed terrorists attacked and killed a nineteen year-old girl in her home, in the neighborhood of Beit Yisrael, in Jerusalem.

Apr 14, 1953 - Terrorists tried for the first time to infiltrate Israel by sea, but were unsuccessful. One of the boats was intercepted and the other boat escaped.

June 7, 1953 - A youngster was killed and three others were wounded, in shooting attacks on residential areas in southern Jerusalem.

June 9, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a farming community near Lod, and killed one of the residents. The terrorists threw hand grenades and sprayed gunfire in all directions. On the same night, another group of terrorists attacked a house in the town of Hadera. This occurred a day after Israel and Jordan signed an agreement, with UN mediation, in which Jordan undertook to prevent terrorists from crossing into Israel from Jordanian territory.

June 10, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrating from Jordan destroyed a house in the farming village of Mishmar Ayalon.

June 11, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a young couple in their home in Kfar Hess, and shot them to death.

Sept 2, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and reached the neighborhood of Katamon, in the heart of Jerusalem. They threw hand grenades in all directions. Miraculously, no one was hurt.

Mar 17, 1954 - Terrorists ambushed a bus traveling from Eilat to Tel Aviv, and opened fire at short range when the bus reached the area of Maale Akrabim in the northern Negev. In the initial ambush, the terrorists killed the driver and wounded most of the passengers. The terrorists then boarded the bus, and shot each passenger, one by one. Eleven passengers were murdered. Survivors recounted how the murderers spat on the bodies and abused them. The terrorists could clearly be traced back to the Jordanian border, some 20 km from the site of the terrorist attack.

Jan 2, 1955 - Terrorists killed two hikers in the Judean Desert.

Mar 24, 1955 - Terrorists threw hand grenades and opened fire on a crowd at a wedding in the farming community of Patish, in the Negev. A young woman was killed, and eighteen people were wounded in the attack.

Apr 7, 1956 - A resident of Ashkelon was killed in her home, when terrorists threw three hand grenades into her house.
Two members of Kibbutz Givat Chaim were killed, when terrorists opened fire on their car, on the road from Plugot Junction to Mishmar Hanegev.
There were further hand grenade and shooting attacks on homes and cars, in areas such as Nitzanim and Ketziot. One person was killed and three others wounded.

Apr 11, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire on a synagogue full of children and teenagers, in the farming community of Shafrir. Three children and a youth worker were killed on the spot, and five were wounded, including three seriously.

Apr 29, 1956 - Egyptians killed Roi Rotenberg, 21 years of age, from Nahal Oz.

Sept 12, 1956 - Terrorists killed three Druze guards at Ein Ofarim, in the Arava region.

Sept 23, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire from a Jordanian position, and killed four archaeologists, and wounded sixteen others, near Kibbutz Ramat Rachel.

Sept 24, 1956 - Terrorists killed a girl in the fields of the farming community of Aminadav, near Jerusalem.

Oct 4, 1956 - Five Israeli workers were killed in Sdom.

Oct 9, 1956 - Two workers were killed in an orchard of the youth village, Neve Hadassah, in the Sharon region.

Nov 8, 1956 - Terrorists opened fire on a train, attacked cars and blew up wells, in the North and Center of Israel. Six Israelis were wounded.

Feb 18, 1957 - Two civilians were killed by terrorist landmines, next to Nir Yitzhak, on the southern border of the Gaza Strip.

Mar 8, 1957 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Beit Govrin was killed by terrorists in a field near the Kibbutz.

Apr 16, 1957 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and killed two guards at Kibbutz Mesilot.

May 20, 1957 - A terrorist opened fire on a truck in the Arava region, killing a worker.

May 29, 1957 - A tractor driver was killed and two others wounded, when the vehicle struck a landmine, next to Kibbutz Kisufim.

June 23, 1957 - Israelis were wounded by landmines, close to the Gaza Strip.

Aug 23, 1957 - Two guards of the Israeli Mekorot water company were killed near Kibbutz Beit Govrin.

Dec 21, 1957 - A member of Kibbutz Gadot was killed in the Kibbutz fields.

Feb 11, 1958 - Terrorists killed a resident of Moshav Yanov who was on his way to Kfar Yona, in the Sharon area.

Apr 5, 1958 - Terrorists lying in ambush shot and killed two people near Tel Lachish.

Apr 22, 1958 - Jordanian soldiers shot and killed two fishermen near Aqaba.

May 26, 1958 - Four Israeli police officers were killed in a Jordanian attack on Mt. Scopus, in Jerusalem.

Nov 17, 1958 - Syrian terrorists killed the wife of the British air attache in Israel, who was staying at the guesthouse of the Italian Convent on the Mt. of the Beatitudes.

Dec 3, 1958- A shepherd was killed at Kibbutz Gonen. In the artillery attack that followed, 31 civilians were wounded.

Jan 23, 1959 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Lehavot Habashan was killed.

Feb 1, 1959 - Three civilians were killed by a terrorist landmine near Moshav Zavdiel.

Apr 15, 1959 - A guard was killed at Kibbutz Ramat Rahel.

Apr 27, 1959 - Two hikers were shot at close range and killed near Massada.

Sept 6, 1959 - Bedouin terrorists killed a paratroop reconnaissance officer near Nitzana.

Sept 8, 1959 - Bedouins opened fire on an army bivouac in the Negev, killing an IDF officer, Captain Yair Peled.

Oct 3, 1959 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Heftziba was killed near Kibbutz Yad Hana.

Apr 26, 1960 - Terrorists killed a resident of Ashkelon south of the city.

Apr 12, 1962 - Terrorists fired on an Egged bus on the way to Eilat; one passenger was wounded.

Sept 30, 1962 - Two terrorists attacked an Egged bus on the way to Eilat. No one was wounded.

Jan 1, 1965 - Palestinian terrorists attempted to bomb the National Water Carrier. This was the first attack carried out by the PLO's Fatah faction.

May 31, 1965 - Jordanian Legionnaires fired on the neighborhood of Musrara in Jerusalem, killing two civilians and wounding four.

June 1, 1965 - Terrorists attack a house in Kibbutz Yiftach.

July 5, 1965 - A Fatah cell planted explosives at Mitzpe Massua, near Beit Guvrin; and on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem near Kafr Battir.

Aug 26, 1965 - A waterline was sabotaged at Kibbutz Manara, in the Upper Galilee.

Sept 29, 1965 - A terrorist was killed as he attempted to attack Moshav Amatzia.

Nov 7, 1965 - A Fatah cell that infiltrated from Jordan blew up a house in Moshav Givat Yeshayahu, south of Beit Shemesh. The house was destroyed, but the inhabitants were miraculously unhurt.

Apr 25, 1966 - Explosions placed by terrorists wounded two civilians and damaged three houses in Moshav Beit Yosef, in the Beit Shean Valley.

May 16, 1966 - Two Israelis were killed when their jeep hit a terrorist landmine, north of the Sea of Galilee and south of Almagor. Tracks led into Syria.

July 13, 1966 - Two soldiers and a civilian were killed near Almagor, when their truck struck a terrorist landmine.

July 14, 1966 - Terrorists attacked a house in Kfar Yuval, in the North.

July 19, 1966 - Terrorists infiltrated into Moshav Margaliot on the northern border and planted nine explosive charges.

Oct 27, 1966 - A civilian was wounded by an explosive charge on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri What were those ships doing there? They were going on a voyage to see the beauties of Mediterranean or they wanted to bring aid to the region which is ruled by the terrorist group of Hamas?! I don't know why some people not only don't try to solve the problem of terrorism but add fuel to this fire!

Those ships were bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, which has been besieged for over three years now.

Hamas was a democratically elected government, and every government has the right to have armed forces.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Becaming anti-iran regime is not same with becoming blind. It totally doesn't relate to the regime of Iran.

Cyrus, this very much has to do with the Iranian regime. In Tehran and other big cities, it has become fashionable for those opposed to the Iranian regime/Islam to be very pro-Israel and anti-Arab, simply because Israel is against the Iranian regime and Iranians blame Arabs for all of their problems.

-----------------------------

Also, I find it amusing that you post all the incidents involving Palestinians, yet you conveniently left out every single Israeli act of aggression and oppression.

Remember that everything the Palestinians do is in fact in retaliation of an action first committed by Israel.

WHY ARE YOU USING AN ISRAELI SOURCE TO TALK ABOUT PALESTINIAN AGGRESSION? HAVEN'T YOU EVER HEARD OF BIASED SOURCES?

You providing us with a link to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs to talk about Palestinian aggression is like someone providing a link to a Nazi website talking about how Jews are bad.

-------------------------------

Also, YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN PROVEN WRONG.

You claim that the ships carried terrorists, this is not true.

You claim that the ships carried aid for Hamas, this is also not true.

So the point of the matter is, you are wrong, why are you still trying to defend your position?

These peaceful vessels carrying humanitarian aid to a region besieged ILLEGALLY were intercepted in INTERNATIONAL waters.

------------------------------

Updates:

Several Americans are being held illegal by Israel after being kidnapped in international waters...UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS DOING NOTHING ABOUT THIS!

Irish government demands that Israel release its citizens.

Norway calls for arms sanctions against Israel.

Egypt has temporarily opened its borders with Gaza.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 01-Jun-2010 at 07:27

Those ships were bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, which has been besieged for over three years now.

People of Gaza should understand that they should also work to gain money, of course they still expect that those Arab billionaires, like Munib Al-masri, still come and built some other ultra-luxury residential complexes for them, like Al Mashtal complex:

Footage

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10206351.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195997.stm


Edited by DreamWeaver - 01-Jun-2010 at 10:41