And although I had a good laugh at first, it is strange that this is actually happening in Norway. If it were the UK or Germany it wouldn't seem so strange, as both have a long history of immigration, but in the scandinavian countries it just seems so... unlikely.
I searched the internet for some information on this, and the situation in Denmark and Sweden appears to be very similiar. With the immigration there is also an increase in crime rates and riots, and this video in particular
Europe gets a lot of the fundamentalists Muslims coming in from Africa and the Middle East. Most muslims who come to the United States tend to be moderate to liberal, at least thats my perception.
Also, countries that are not used to having large immigrant populations face such situations, where as a country like the United States, which has been multicultural and multiethnic from the beginning tend to cope better.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
Yeah... the racism is turned upside down by us here in Norway. Instead of us trying to get more Norwegian - to fit into the community, the Norwegians are trying to be more like us, to integrate into our society.
Also, this does not apply to fundamentalist Muslims only, because it's more of a Middle-Eastern phenomenon. If you're not like us, you'll be an outsider. Sadly, this is what Norway has become in the big cities (around the capital, Oslo). I personally think, and know, it's because the Norwegians don't have the same connections to each other and their family (mother, father, sister, brother and maybe grandfather/grandmother - or even their fellow Norwegians!) as us Middle-Easterns. It's also hard to find any nationalistic Norwegians, who brag about vikings etc., because it's looked upon as "harry" among all of us.
Ultra/super nationalism is not a good thing. Norwegian ideology isnt "us vs them" its more universal. If every country were like Norway the world would be a much better place!
Edited by TheGreatSimba - 27-May-2010 at 16:24
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
I am very demoralized about the Muslim reaction to this video!
If you want to prove that most of you can never be assimilated within a foreign environment, then you have proved it here by your response, or the lack of your responses!
No one showed the slighest remorse for the life that this good looking and very smart young man has had to go thru with, within his "on" country, and having to live and go to school with Muslims!
So, I have to assume that the majority of you (as Muslims) don't consider this as somewhat "negative" towards your ability to ever be really assimilated outside of your very closed and negative society!
I would consider it more like a "blond, blue eyed, young man, from a forerly Christian society, being sent to any public school in Iran, or Iraq, or pick the Islamic society of your choice, and the manner in which he would be treated!
He would be treated as the Quran proscribes! Shunned! Ignored! And not for the intervention of school officials, he might well be killed!
But, that would do little to make these "outsiders" in Scandanavia look peaceful!
One might well ask, Azadi, since he seems to live somewhere nearby, just why he did not feel for the little boy!
In the same circumstances, here in the USA, and in many places in Europe, where there exists certain poor Muslim children, who by fate, had to be sent to school with a majority of Christians, this child would face a far less threatening life, than does a native in his own nation, have to face in a school situation full of unfriendly "outsiders!"
And, as long as you all keep up this "us" against "them" attitude, then the sooner children like the one in the video, may grow up as "mass bombers" within the Islamic community!
You must notice, that even though he was necessarily raised within any realm of a Christian family, he made sure, that he was "considered one!"
Just wait, untill this soon to be hateful towards Islam, young (Viking)man becomes able, that he starts throwing bombs into the nearest Mosque!
Only then can you hate him, because he exists because of you!
If you do not like the nation that allowed you to live within them, then please leave them or accept them!
Again it is the lack of sympathy for this kid, that has not only depressed me, but has also imressed me, just how different we are!
It seems we have not come very far from the Crusades after all!
Azadi, your explanation has no meaning to anyone from the West! It is idiotic and lazy, as well as "supremeist!"
Long Live America! I have Islamic neighbors! We all live in harmony!
MAY THE GOD OF ABRAM, PROTECT US ALL!
GOD! BE PRAISED!
O JACOB, SELAH!
Let us see how many Islamic apologists respond now? How many feel like Azadi? How many just want to live life in peace?
But,maybe I misrepresented (mis-understood?) the post by Azadi?
If so, I apologize!
Any and all moderators have my permisson to edit any of my words above!
To me Azadis post seemed quite reasonable, I think he actually refers
to his observations rather than to his own views. But this is really a
difficult topic to talk about...
Especially those videos in my first post are very extreme, so I can
understand your reaction, opuslola. Especially the part about the
"danish women as war booty" is simply disgusting.
The problem is that the fundamentalist muslims claim to be represent the moderate ones, and that is not always the case.
This particular demonstration because of the mohammed caricatures for
example was heavily critizised by the moderate muslim community in
britain, since none of the protestors were arrested.
So please everyone keep in mind thisis not a vs thread, lets try to have a civil discussion.
(so no viking vs saracen arguments )
Originally posted by TheGreatSimba
Europe gets a lot of the fundamentalists Muslims coming in from Africa and the Middle East. Most muslims who come to the United States tend to be moderate to liberal, at least thats my perception.
Also, countries that are not used to having large immigrant populations face such situations, where as a country like the United States, which has been multicultural and multiethnic from the beginning tend to cope better.
From what I read the fundamentalists were originally a small minority among the immigrants, but today the descendants of the moderate muslims are often intrigued by the fundamentalist views, as they provide a sense of identity they can relate to more easily than the society they were born into, but which rejects them anyway (in some cases).
Especially with bad education and personal problems as results of discrimination it seems to be appealing to radicalize. So in this way they are similar to extreme right- or leftwing activists, with the tiny difference they are one of the worlds largest religions and financially and ideologically supported by entire states, as for example saudi arabia.
What surprises me is, that there is so little open discussion about it. Here in Germany there are many conflicts with turkish immigrants, but additionally to "political correctness" the german history in itself prevents open criticism against minorities.
So I really wonder what it is like in the other countries...
I just wrote down the reality, and what happens in front of everybody eyes. It's heard to believe for people who do not live in such communities, because it's downright absurd...
From what I read the fundamentalists were originally a small minority among the immigrants, but today the descendants of the moderate muslims are often intrigued by the fundamentalist views, as they provide a sense of identity they can relate to more easily than the society they were born into, but which rejects them anyway (in some cases).
Especially with bad education and personal problems as results of discrimination it seems to be appealing to radicalize. So in this way they are similar to extreme right- or leftwing activists, with the tiny difference they are one of the worlds largest religions and financially and ideologically supported by entire states, as for example saudi arabia.
What surprises me is, that there is so little open discussion about it. Here in Germany there are many conflicts with turkish immigrants, but additionally to "political correctness" the german history in itself prevents open criticism against minorities.
So I really wonder what it is like in the other countries...
Here is what I observe here in the United States:
Most Muslims in the United States, except maybe for communities living in major cities (i.e Chicago, New York) are not fundamentalists or extremists. In fact, most moderate and liberal muslims in the US integrate pretty well.
The overwhelming majority of Iranians in the United States are not religious, but the majority of Arab muslims here tend to be religious.
The religious ones do stick to themselves a lot, but they still integrate with society. By this I mean that they mostly hang out with each other, but they dress like everyone else, talk like everyone else, look like everyone else, etc...
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
From what I read the fundamentalists were originally a small minority among the immigrants, but today the descendants of the moderate muslims are often intrigued by the fundamentalist views, as they provide a sense of identity they can relate to more easily than the society they were born into, but which rejects them anyway (in some cases).
Especially with bad education and personal problems as results of discrimination it seems to be appealing to radicalize. So in this way they are similar to extreme right- or leftwing activists, with the tiny difference they are one of the worlds largest religions and financially and ideologically supported by entire states, as for example saudi arabia.
What surprises me is, that there is so little open discussion about it. Here in Germany there are many conflicts with turkish immigrants, but additionally to "political correctness" the german history in itself prevents open criticism against minorities.
So I really wonder what it is like in the other countries...
The majority of Muslims here in Britain are very moderate and do intergrate relatively well, though it has been noted that other religious and ethnic groups, Sikh/Hindus for exapmple, integrate much more rapidly and successfully though. Yet there arent hordes of fundamntalists plotting the fall of the country, there are no more than one might reasonably except to find in any social grouping.
Its a Stand Alone Complex. The idea that a there are vast numbers of fundamentalist muslims all over the country has lead to scaremongering by the media and the formation of rightwing nationalist groups, EDL for example here in the UK. Thus pressure is applied to a minority group making it feel besieged abnd under threat and in so whipping up and actually causing fundamentalism in the firts place. This has been the case here in the UK.
Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists.
However, this case is different in Europe, where the majority of the population is either non-religious or atheist/agnostic. Europe Islamic fundamentalist problem is worse, especially in nations with mostly homogenous populations not used to immigrants.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
So please everyone keep in mind thisis not a vs thread, lets try to have a civil discussion. (so no viking vs saracen arguments )
Okay Van, BTW Are the Saracens an NFL expansion team? How about Vikings vs the Redskins?
TGS, Your halfa**ing! source up or you'll find yourself sharing a room with Opuslola.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Well, what I mean is the increasing Christian fundamentalist influence in politics here. I have posted in the thread such as the historical revisionism in Texas. There is also the sense amongst the Christian evangelicals that there is a Islam vs. Christianity culture war going on here in the US, and a "culture war" in general.
As regards to the statistics regarding religious belief in Europe, statistics are readily available. For example, here are some statistics on the UK:
Europeans generally today, depending on country of course, tend to either have no religious preference (but still believe in a god or some type of higher power) or be atheist/agnostic.
Edited by TheGreatSimba - 29-May-2010 at 14:46
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
"Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists."
That is a very hateful post! You transfer blame from the very persons who kill themselves just to kill Christians (others it seems do not really matter) with "Christian radical fundamentalists", who, as I remember (unless you consider the Ok City bombing an act of a Christian fundamentalist?) have not deliberately bombed any one any where! With the radical Islamic groups!
Indeed, in most nations, it seems neither has made much of an attempt to attack the other as specific enemies!
Other wise, yours was a typically good TGS posting!
I agree that migrants should learn to adopt and respect the customs of the country which they migrate to. From the video above it looks like the migrant community in Scandinavia are behaving like a pack of chauvanists and they should cut it out and be respectful towards their new home.
I agree that migrants should learn to adopt and respect the customs of the country which they migrate to. From the video above it looks like the migrant community in Scandinavia are behaving like a pack of chauvanists and they should cut it out and be respectful towards their new home.
From watching a few other documentaries I got the impression that to the fundamentalist muslims a secular gouvernment without religious legitimacy has simply no right to exist. And so do the means of enforcing its laws, as for example the police.
In one particular documentary about the swedish city Malmö which has a city destrict called Rosengard with more than 85% of the population being of foreign background a young muslim was asked why there were so many attacks on ambulances, firefighters and police-cars, and he said that the muslims were enraged because the police "played Allah".
Unfortunately I can't find the video, but here are some links to the general situation:
This aggressive behaviour reminded me of another pretty long documentation I also found on youtube called "Islam: What the West needs to know". It seems to be pretty controversial, but it makes many interesting points.
Now we can lean back and wait for the muslim communities to start riots in denmark, norway and sweden (And of course Britain). Now if he calls for protests its one thing, but he calls on the muslim faith of the immigrants to make a political point, and there we go again...
Now some recent statistics to the situation of young muslim men in Germany had very negative results. They were compared to migrants of other confessions.
Of these 41.2% try to get the german "Abitur" which is comparable to the high school diploma. 62%.9 of them had German friends, and 66.1% perceived themselves as Germans.
Of the muslims in contrast only 12.8% work towards the high school diploma, only 28.2% reported having German friends, and only a shocking 21.6% perceived themselves as Germans.
Additionally religiousness and violent behaviour were found to be generally linked in the muslim youths.
It is sad for the Muslims who have tried their best to assimilate in other nations and amongst other religions when their parents and relatives mostly have never lived in such a situation.
It is also becomming apparent that Sharia Law is a lot more important to younger Muslims than the West has believed!
It is most apparent that this belief, "conquer, or convert / kill, or subjugate" those who do not believe in it, has over taken a great number of the worlds younger Muslim!
"Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists."
That is a very hateful post! You transfer blame from the very persons who kill themselves just to kill Christians (others it seems do not really matter) with "Christian radical fundamentalists", who, as I remember (unless you consider the Ok City bombing an act of a Christian fundamentalist?) have not deliberately bombed any one any where! With the radical Islamic groups!
Indeed, in most nations, it seems neither has made much of an attempt to attack the other as specific enemies!
Other wise, yours was a typically good TGS posting!
TGS please try to focus on this topic. It was tempting to reply to your comment but it is titled Muslim Immigration in scandinavia not the USA please.
It seems Sweden and Norway do have a problem but it does not mean that all the Mulsim immigrants are evil. It is a clash of cultures though and some wil not assimilate easy, others will. I really don't care what one's faith is as long as they can live alongside other beliefs. I wonder if there are any groups in Sweden or Norway like The Islamic Foundation for Democracy, a group I really support. The natives must demand that the government looks at who is arriving whether they are Muslim or non- Muslim and reconsider their immigration policy. They also need to start having children.
Eaglecap, please read threads before making such assumptions, Van Mock specifically asked what it was like in other countries:
Originally posted by Van_Möck
So I really wonder what it is like in the other countries...
I told him (see my post dated May-29-2010 at 07:40), and I elaborated more by saying that its not Islamic fundamentalism here that is the problem, its Christian fundamentalism (thus implying that yes, we here in the USA also have problems with religious extremists, although of a different type).
I then went on to compare the differences between Europe and the US to explain why in Europe Islamic fundamentalism within their countries is seen as a threat where as here in the US, where there is a large Christian fundamentalist population, the Muslim threat is really non-existent here as compared to perhaps Scandinavian countries.
In fact, my post was most certainly on topic.
Clear enough?
This isnt Fox News, you cant get away with false claims and accusations, I'll call you out on it.
Edited by TheGreatSimba - 07-Jun-2010 at 12:07
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
Eaglecap, please read threads before making such assumptions, Van Mock specifically asked what it was like in other countries, I told him, and I elaborated more by saying that its not Islamic fundamentalism here that is the problem, its Christian fundamentalism (thus implying that yes, we here in the USA also have problems with religious extremists, although of a different type).
So, based upon your above words TGS, just why then is Christian fundamentalism a problem? Ron
TGS continued;
I then went on to compare the differences between Europe and the US to explain why in Europe Islamic fundamentalism within their countries is seen as a threat where as here in the US, where there is a large Christian fundamentalist population, the Muslim threat is really non-existent here as compared to perhaps Scandinavian countries.
TGS, your words above make little if any sense! You seem to be saying that in Europe, which is mostly "secualar", they have a bigger problem with fundamentalists than the people of the USA, who have but little problems with "fundamentalism/"
Huh?
TGS continued;
In fact, my post was most certainly on topic. Clear enough?This isnt Fox News, you cant get away with false claims and accusations, I'll call you out on it.
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