Muslim immigration in Scandinavia
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: All Empires Community
Forum Name: Modern Culture
Forum Discription: Discussions on modern literature, visual arts and music
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28432
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 01:06
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Muslim immigration in Scandinavia
Posted By: Van_Möck
Subject: Muslim immigration in Scandinavia
Date Posted: 27-May-2010 at 13:33
|
I just found this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7p4pq8nB2Y&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7p4pq8nB2Y&feature=related And although I had a good laugh at first, it is strange that this is actually happening in Norway. If it were the UK or Germany it wouldn't seem so strange, as both have a long history of immigration, but in the scandinavian countries it just seems so... unlikely. I searched the internet for some information on this, and the situation in Denmark and Sweden appears to be very similiar. With the immigration there is also an increase in crime rates and riots, and this video in particular http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20&feature=related shows that there might be some problems with the more fundamentalist muslims that aren't really discussed in the media. Now I wonder if some of the scandinavian members here have any personal experience with this development or know more about it. |
Replies:
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 27-May-2010 at 13:38
|
Europe gets a lot of the fundamentalists Muslims coming in from Africa and the Middle East. Most muslims who come to the United States tend to be moderate to liberal, at least thats my perception. Also, countries that are not used to having large immigrant populations face such situations, where as a country like the United States, which has been multicultural and multiethnic from the beginning tend to cope better. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 27-May-2010 at 16:06
|
Yeah... the racism is turned upside down by us here in Norway. Instead of us trying to get more Norwegian - to fit into the community, the Norwegians are trying to be more like us, to integrate into our society. Also, this does not apply to fundamentalist Muslims only, because it's more of a Middle-Eastern phenomenon. If you're not like us, you'll be an outsider. Sadly, this is what Norway has become in the big cities (around the capital, Oslo). I personally think, and know, it's because the Norwegians don't have the same connections to each other and their family (mother, father, sister, brother and maybe grandfather/grandmother - or even their fellow Norwegians!) as us Middle-Easterns. It's also hard to find any nationalistic Norwegians, who brag about vikings etc., because it's looked upon as "harry" among all of us. ------------- 
|
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 27-May-2010 at 16:24
|
Ultra/super nationalism is not a good thing. Norwegian ideology isnt "us vs them" its more universal. If every country were like Norway the world would be a much better place!
------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 27-May-2010 at 19:07
|
I am very demoralized about the Muslim reaction to this video!
If you want to prove that most of you can never be assimilated within a foreign environment, then you have proved it here by your response, or the lack of your responses! No one showed the slighest remorse for the life that this good looking and very smart young man has had to go thru with, within his "on" country, and having to live and go to school with Muslims! So, I have to assume that the majority of you (as Muslims) don't consider this as somewhat "negative" towards your ability to ever be really assimilated outside of your very closed and negative society! I would consider it more like a "blond, blue eyed, young man, from a forerly Christian society, being sent to any public school in Iran, or Iraq, or pick the Islamic society of your choice, and the manner in which he would be treated! He would be treated as the Quran proscribes! Shunned! Ignored! And not for the intervention of school officials, he might well be killed! But, that would do little to make these "outsiders" in Scandanavia look peaceful! One might well ask, Azadi, since he seems to live somewhere nearby, just why he did not feel for the little boy! In the same circumstances, here in the USA, and in many places in Europe, where there exists certain poor Muslim children, who by fate, had to be sent to school with a majority of Christians, this child would face a far less threatening life, than does a native in his own nation, have to face in a school situation full of unfriendly "outsiders!" And, as long as you all keep up this "us" against "them" attitude, then the sooner children like the one in the video, may grow up as "mass bombers" within the Islamic community! You must notice, that even though he was necessarily raised within any realm of a Christian family, he made sure, that he was "considered one!" Just wait, untill this soon to be hateful towards Islam, young (Viking)man becomes able, that he starts throwing bombs into the nearest Mosque! Only then can you hate him, because he exists because of you! If you do not like the nation that allowed you to live within them, then please leave them or accept them! Again it is the lack of sympathy for this kid, that has not only depressed me, but has also imressed me, just how different we are! It seems we have not come very far from the Crusades after all! Azadi, your explanation has no meaning to anyone from the West! It is idiotic and lazy, as well as "supremeist!" Long Live America! I have Islamic neighbors! We all live in harmony! MAY THE GOD OF ABRAM, PROTECT US ALL! GOD! BE PRAISED! O JACOB, SELAH! Let us see how many Islamic apologists respond now? How many feel like Azadi? How many just want to live life in peace? But,maybe I misrepresented (mis-understood?) the post by Azadi? If so, I apologize! Any and all moderators have my permisson to edit any of my words above! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 05:24
|
To me Azadis post seemed quite reasonable, I think he actually refers
to his observations rather than to his own views. But this is really a
difficult topic to talk about... Especially those videos in my first post are very extreme, so I can understand your reaction, opuslola. Especially the part about the "danish women as war booty" is simply disgusting. The problem is that the fundamentalist muslims claim to be represent the moderate ones, and that is not always the case. This particular demonstration because of the mohammed caricatures for example was heavily critizised by the moderate muslim community in britain, since none of the protestors were arrested. So please everyone keep in mind this is not a vs thread, lets try to have a civil discussion. (so no viking vs saracen arguments  )
From what I read the fundamentalists were originally a small minority among the immigrants, but today the descendants of the moderate muslims are often intrigued by the fundamentalist views, as they provide a sense of identity they can relate to more easily than the society they were born into, but which rejects them anyway (in some cases). Especially with bad education and personal problems as results of discrimination it seems to be appealing to radicalize. So in this way they are similar to extreme right- or leftwing activists, with the tiny difference they are one of the worlds largest religions and financially and ideologically supported by entire states, as for example saudi arabia. What surprises me is, that there is so little open discussion about it. Here in Germany there are many conflicts with turkish immigrants, but additionally to "political correctness" the german history in itself prevents open criticism against minorities. So I really wonder what it is like in the other countries... |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 06:37
|
I just wrote down the reality, and what happens in front of everybody eyes. It's heard to believe for people who do not live in such communities, because it's downright absurd... -------------
|
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 07:40
Here is what I observe here in the United States: Most Muslims in the United States, except maybe for communities living in major cities (i.e Chicago, New York) are not fundamentalists or extremists. In fact, most moderate and liberal muslims in the US integrate pretty well. The overwhelming majority of Iranians in the United States are not religious, but the majority of Arab muslims here tend to be religious. The religious ones do stick to themselves a lot, but they still integrate with society. By this I mean that they mostly hang out with each other, but they dress like everyone else, talk like everyone else, look like everyone else, etc... ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 09:19
The majority of Muslims here in Britain are very moderate and do intergrate relatively well, though it has been noted that other religious and ethnic groups, Sikh/Hindus for exapmple, integrate much more rapidly and successfully though. Yet there arent hordes of fundamntalists plotting the fall of the country, there are no more than one might reasonably except to find in any social grouping.
Its a Stand Alone Complex. The idea that a there are vast numbers of fundamentalist muslims all over the country has lead to scaremongering by the media and the formation of rightwing nationalist groups, EDL for example here in the UK. Thus pressure is applied to a minority group making it feel besieged abnd under threat and in so whipping up and actually causing fundamentalism in the firts place. This has been the case here in the UK. ------------- |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 12:20
|
Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists. However, this case is different in Europe, where the majority of the population is either non-religious or atheist/agnostic. Europe Islamic fundamentalist problem is worse, especially in nations with mostly homogenous populations not used to immigrants. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 29-May-2010 at 14:03
|
So please everyone keep in mind this is not a vs thread, lets try to have a civil discussion. (so no viking vs saracen arguments  )Okay Van, BTW Are the Saracens an NFL expansion team?
 How about Vikings vs the Redskins?TGS, Your halfa**ing! source up or you'll find yourself sharing a room with Opuslola.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 29-May-2010 at 14:40
|
Well, what I mean is the increasing Christian fundamentalist influence in politics here. I have posted in the thread such as the historical revisionism in Texas. There is also the sense amongst the Christian evangelicals that there is a Islam vs. Christianity culture war going on here in the US, and a "culture war" in general. As regards to the statistics regarding religious belief in Europe, statistics are readily available. For example, here are some statistics on the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Religion Europeans generally today, depending on country of course, tend to either have no religious preference (but still believe in a god or some type of higher power) or be atheist/agnostic. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 29-May-2010 at 16:05
|
TGS, wrote;
"Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists." That is a very hateful post! You transfer blame from the very persons who kill themselves just to kill Christians (others it seems do not really matter) with "Christian radical fundamentalists", who, as I remember (unless you consider the Ok City bombing an act of a Christian fundamentalist?) have not deliberately bombed any one any where! With the radical Islamic groups! Indeed, in most nations, it seems neither has made much of an attempt to attack the other as specific enemies! Other wise, yours was a typically good TGS posting! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: C. Isaurikon
Date Posted: 30-May-2010 at 17:06
| I agree that migrants should learn to adopt and respect the customs of the country which they migrate to. From the video above it looks like the migrant community in Scandinavia are behaving like a pack of chauvanists and they should cut it out and be respectful towards their new home. |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 31-May-2010 at 11:21
From watching a few other documentaries I got the impression that to the fundamentalist muslims a secular gouvernment without religious legitimacy has simply no right to exist. And so do the means of enforcing its laws, as for example the police. In one particular documentary about the swedish city Malmö which has a city destrict called Rosengard with more than 85% of the population being of foreign background a young muslim was asked why there were so many attacks on ambulances, firefighters and police-cars, and he said that the muslims were enraged because the police "played Allah". Unfortunately I can't find the video, but here are some links to the general situation: Wikipedia - Rosengard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseng%C3%A5rd - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseng%C3%A5rd Youtube - "Welcome to Sweden" by Fox News http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diw5SneythM&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diw5SneythM&feature=related This aggressive behaviour reminded me of another pretty long documentation I also found on youtube called "Islam: What the West needs to know". It seems to be pretty controversial, but it makes many interesting points. Youtube - "Islam - What the West needs to know 8" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1DMGyzFOw&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1DMGyzFOw&feature=related It stresses the political side of Islam that plays an important role, and we also see this today in the incident in Israel concerning the Aid Flotilla. A Hamas Spokesman named Sami Abu Zuhri: "We call on all Arabs and Muslims to rise up in front of Zionist embassies across the whole world." http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Palestinian-Aid-Convoy-Two-Killed-As-Israeli-Navy-Clashes-With-Boats-Sailing-To-Gaza-Strip/Article/201005415640829?f=rss - http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Palestinian-Aid-Convoy-Two-Killed-As-Israeli-Navy-Clashes-With-Boats-Sailing-To-Gaza-Strip/Article/201005415640829?f=rss Now we can lean back and wait for the muslim communities to start riots in denmark, norway and sweden (And of course Britain). Now if he calls for protests its one thing, but he calls on the muslim faith of the immigrants to make a political point, and there we go again... |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2010 at 12:41
|
Now some recent statistics to the situation of young muslim men in Germany had very negative results. They were compared to migrants of other confessions. Of these 41.2% try to get the german "Abitur" which is comparable to the high school diploma. 62%.9 of them had German friends, and 66.1% perceived themselves as Germans. Of the muslims in contrast only 12.8% work towards the high school diploma, only 28.2% reported having German friends, and only a shocking 21.6% perceived themselves as Germans. Additionally religiousness and violent behaviour were found to be generally linked in the muslim youths. Here is the source (unfortunately in german): http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,698948,00.html - http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,698948,00.html There is an english translation on this site: http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/06/germany-religious-muslim-youth-more.html - http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/06/germany-religious-muslim-youth-more.html |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2010 at 14:25
|
It is sad for the Muslims who have tried their best to assimilate in other nations and amongst other religions when their parents and relatives mostly have never lived in such a situation.
It is also becomming apparent that Sharia Law is a lot more important to younger Muslims than the West has believed! It is most apparent that this belief, "conquer, or convert / kill, or subjugate" those who do not believe in it, has over taken a great number of the worlds younger Muslim! Sorry, that is just the way I perceive things! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 11:53
TGS please try to focus on this topic. It was tempting to reply to your comment but it is titled Muslim Immigration in scandinavia not the USA please. It seems Sweden and Norway do have a problem but it does not mean that all the Mulsim immigrants are evil. It is a clash of cultures though and some wil not assimilate easy, others will. I really don't care what one's faith is as long as they can live alongside other beliefs. I wonder if there are any groups in Sweden or Norway like The Islamic Foundation for Democracy, a group I really support. The natives must demand that the government looks at who is arriving whether they are Muslim or non- Muslim and reconsider their immigration policy. They also need to start having children. http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/03/war-against-swedes.html - http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/03/war-against-swedes.html http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/01/sweden-country-that-sacrifices-its.html - http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/01/sweden-country-that-sacrifices-its.html ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 12:00
Eaglecap, please read threads before making such assumptions, Van Mock specifically asked what it was like in other countries:
I told him (see my post dated May-29-2010 at 07:40), and I elaborated more by saying that its not Islamic fundamentalism here that is the problem, its Christian fundamentalism (thus implying that yes, we here in the USA also have problems with religious extremists, although of a different type). I then went on to compare the differences between Europe and the US to explain why in Europe Islamic fundamentalism within their countries is seen as a threat where as here in the US, where there is a large Christian fundamentalist population, the Muslim threat is really non-existent here as compared to perhaps Scandinavian countries. In fact, my post was most certainly on topic. Clear enough? This isnt Fox News, you cant get away with false claims and accusations, I'll call you out on it. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 12:10
ON topic with what?  ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 12:16
|
On topic with Van Mock's question as to how it is in other countries. In the United States, its not Islamic fundamentalism thats the problem, its Christian fundamentalism.Question answered. You can clearly read English, so I suggest you read my post, then I wouldnt have to repeat myself. How about now we get back on topic. Thanks. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 12:35
|
OK, here is your post;
"Posted: May-28-2010 at 14:20 Frankly, here in the US, Christian radical fundamentalists out number the Muslim fundamentalists, so the problem here in the US isnt the Muslims, its mostly Christian fundamentalists." So, just what acts of terrorism, or racial discrimination, or public humiliation, or other sorid acts are found to have been committed by Christian fundamentalists, towards the followers of Islam? Are Christian fundamentalists bombing Mosques?, or are they busy bombing Jewish Temples? Are they attacking Islamic sites around the world? Or are the attacking Jewish ones? Just what crimes have these hateful Christian fundamentalists supposed to have perpertrated? Have they attacked you personally with hateful remarks? Were you deeply offended? Just where does your obvious distain for these peaceful, and loving people really derive its origin? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 12:41
The problem here is in politics mostly. Christian fundamentalists here are very active in destroying the separation of Church and State, and thus turning this country into a theocracy.
Actually, a mosque was bombed in Florida recently.
Yes, Christian's are indeed attacking Islamic sites in Iraq for example. And Christian fundamentalists in India attack non-Christian villages all the time, at the urging of the missionaries who go there to convert them. Here are videos of US troops destroying mosques and laughing about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEJUUfUjYxQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO7xwnZA124&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Squ2UezMlO0&feature=related Christians are no better than Muslims or Jews, and the same goes for the other two. All their religions preach violence and hatred.
Christian fundamentalists are very active in derailing the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, because they believe Israel has to be continuously at war for Armageddon to happen. Furthermore, Christian fundamentalists are very active in turning this country into a theocracy. The latter is what I am most fearful of.
They are hardly peaceful people. Where as Muslim extremists use suicide bombings because they lack any conventional power, Christian extremists lobby their governments to use their powerful militaries to kill. I see no difference. Killing is killing. As a matter of fact, conventional methods kill more innocent people than suicide bombings. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 13:03
|
Gee, I guess I had better raise my next check to Christian Ministries, by a good deal? I had no idea they were successfully killing so many of my enemies?
Why, if I and every other Christian in the world gave more to such entities, then we might well have no enemies left?  ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 13:05
I suspect you probably will start donating to one of these radical groups?  But on a more serious note, I believe killing is killing, no matter what the means are. A bomb dropped for 30,000 feet in the air killing civilians is no different than a suicide bomber sacrificing his life to kill civilians. The goal is the same, to kill people, the method is different. If the Taleban had missiles, tanks, airplanes, aircraft carriers, etc... do you think they would be resorting to suicide bombings? Absolutely not. Terrorism, whether its committed by non-governmental organizations or nation states is the same, its goals are the same. But anyways, now we are digressing too far from the actual topic, we should get back on track. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 15:45
|
TGS, wrote these words;
"The problem here is in politics mostly. Christian fundamentalists here are very active in destroying the separation of Church and State, and thus turning this country into a theocracy." Your attitude is mostly "bunk!" The great majority of Christians want the Federal Government to stay out of their area of expertise! It is only the movement of persons like your self (TGS) that prompts the Federal Government to consistantly impose its powers "against" religion, especially Christian religions (avoiding mention of the Islamist radical Mosques), and wanting to apply regulations of these Christian churches! Christians only want to keep what is or had become an over two hundred year period, where the majority of Americans professed to be Christian and saw within the Constitution, that America was certainly founded upon a Judeao/Christian foundation! Since, it seems TGS, and his ilk, know little or nothing about the real history of religion within the various states of these United States,it becomes obvious that their cries, and wails, are the result of the lack of education,as well as "educational" superiority! You all have already seen the post made by TGS, promoting such? But TGS, or should I call him/her St. TGS, wants to return to the topic! Just who am I to argue that? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 16:01
I never said the majority of Christians, I said CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS. Word of advice, its best to read and understand what your opponent is saying before you post, you dont want to look like a fool do you?
Hell yea, secularism is great and you're damn right we want to keep it and will defend it!  Hell, I personally wont be satisfied until religion is completely out of government. If you want to be religious or do anything related to religion, thats fine, but religion has no place in government. The root of a lot of the major problems we are facing today is religion. By the way, most American "Christians" arent even Christian, they just say they are, they break almost every rule in the bible. Thats the way it should be! Secularism!------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2010 at 17:29
|
Can you define a "Christian Fundamentalist?"
Just how do they differ from a "Christian Non-Fundamentalist?" Just a simple question! And, just how do any of them "scare you to death?" Mostly they love you and pray for you! All of them! I may be the only one who would pray for you to become unable to type?
My best regards, as always! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 05:31
These articles really show two sides of the problem. First it is obvious that these figures are surprising in how extreme the situation has become, with 10-year-olds of each side threatening to kill each other. If these statistics are correct one can only wonder how there aren't more people protesting. But second we can also see that the author is biased to a degree almost discrediting himself. The refusal of paying taxes until politicians stop muslim immigration is just absurd, and the way he mentions the holocaust is... not a good way of leading an open discussion. And so it is difficult to distinguish paranoid right-wing theories of people who call themselves "stormviking88"(this one is made up) or whatever can be found on youtube from actual facts. There is just no way the matter can be adressed in open discussion without any non-biased facts and studies, and if the situation is as bad as it seems the lack thereof is at least confusing. The situation in America is really different from Europe as especially in Scandinavia organised religion lacks the intense support it has in some American regions. But in contrast to Islam even American christianity does not aim for expansion. On a side note christian fundamentalism can probably be brought just as far as muslim fundamentalism as seen by the results of the texas curriculum and things like this "christian childrens camp": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STDH14aJVk&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2STDH14aJVk&feature=related But I don't know of anything comparable to this from Scandinavia. The expansion of Islam however is for partially financed by the Arabian states. For example in Finland about a dozen mosques were built with money from Saudi Arabia, and with this kind of support they are making good progress, because there is no "religious competition". Atheism is by nature no institution that organizes against other believes, and so the only ideologies that rival Islam could be islamophobia or nationalism. The former is not far spread, and the latter has proved to be even worse than the original problem. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 12:26
|
Our future?
A Moslem world? It could be? Gee, I am glad that I am an old man! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 15:22
|
Islamophobe.
------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 15:45
|
TGS , actually posted the words from the abve!
"Islamophobe", to, I suppose, describe me? I just hope TGS has enough space between his ass and his other private parts, to know whereby, over the internet, I intend to place my boot? Some people, here in the South call this space the "taint!" "taint" that something? 
------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 16:18
|
Well, you seem to be afraid that someday we may be living in an Islamic world, and that you are glad your too old to see the day. Classic Islamophobia.
------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 03:49
I guess you can sign me up too. As an atheist I'm quite happy in this rather secular environment and for me Jehovahs Witnesses and Scientology are already enough without anyone wanting to stone me to death for hearing music, saying what I think and having my hair exceed a certain length. If someone wants to live according to certain principles thats fine, I do that myself. But I have this old fashioned fondness for democracy and freedom and would certainly dislike being forced to pray to what appears to me as incoherent phantasm, as most religions do. To me this "-phobia" is simply an aversion to people forcing their views on me, you wont see me running through the streets demanding muslims to "convert to atheism". And I don't see any reason for being ashamed that I don't want to be in the same position as the norwegian boy in the first post. |
Posted By: Night Crawler
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 04:14
|
If you immigrate to a country you should try to assimilate--If not why move there. You want to move to a country because quite frankly you are oppressed in your own country--A country is good enough to take you in--Offer you a chance for upward mobility that you would never have in your old country-- Then you want to muck up the new country. In my book that is just being ungrateful. If you want a fundamentalist state go back home-Don't ruin it for everyone else. Don't ruin it for the natives who built the society. Don't ruin it for the moderate Muslims who want an opportunity to better themselves. As Chris Rock said== thery are not desperate house wives they are ungrateful mailto:!#$%@#% - |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 06:04
|
I am also an atheist, therefore, I dislike all religion all together. However, what makes one an Islamophobe is the same thing that makes one an anti-semite, assumptions that Muslims are planning on taking over the world.
------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 06:43
|
"assumptions that Muslims are planning on taking over the world."
Assumptions? Are you kidding? Have you read the "Book?" The Quran is a plan for world domination! It is the basis for the entire religion! I doubt I will receive many posts disputing my claim? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 07:03
So are the other religions. In Judaism Jews are taught that they are superior to everyone else because they are the chosen few and everyone else is doomed to suffer but them. Both Christianity and Islam preach world domination in terms of spreading their religion and killing non-believers. You are displaying classic signs of Islamophobia. And I'm 99% sure that you have never even read a page of the Quran. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 08:02
Well you would certainly loose a bet on that "boyo!"  I like that term, and until recently, I have not seen it in print for a while!
Now, I cannot claim to have read every word of the Quran, but a pretty good slice of it, for sure! I have also read the Book of Morman!, and I wont even mention those books used by Christian Fundamentalists! BAD Books!
------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 08:24
|
See, now was it really that hard to accept that there are Christian fundamentalists? Frankly, there are millions of them, most notably the Evangelicals. In Europe, they mostly have problems with Islamic fundamentalism because Europeans tend to be less religious. In the USA, its the opposite, Islamic fundamentalism here is negligible, its the tens of millions of Christian fundamentalists thats the problem. This country is heading in a very bad direction if a man like Mike Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist Minister, was seriously considered for the Republican nomination! Keep religion out of government. Ministers, priests, rabbi's, and mullahs should not be allowed to run for office, any office! ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 10:26
Its really strange how religion is starting to gain power again after the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe the period we live in will be remembered as a "dark time span of heresy" in a few houndred years (unless we wipe out each other with nuclear warfare). If you look at a some videos of "western" converts to Islam they often talk about spiritual emptiness they experienced as atheists or whatever they were before. Now If the pope suddenly started talking about a cultural war and called for the crusades against the western world I would certainly be christiano-phobic or whatever it is called anyway .But getting nervous about fanatics calling for a holy war against the culture I happen to belong to seems quite reasonable to me. Of course there are also right-wing and left-wing extremists and militant animal rights activists, but fortunately they mostly lack the money, power and most importantly the following to really affect the political situation. But as I mentioned the second generation of muslim immigrants is targeted by these extremists, and with the religion they identify themselves with they form a group that has the potential to influence the whole muslim community. If right-wing extremists for example had a potential following of that magnitude I would be worried about it too. I really don't think every muslim is secretly plotting against the western world. Unfortunately, as seen in the radicalisation of the second generation, they identify with the same group that the extremists belong to and are thereby close to it. And if using their religious beliefs as a political instrument is that easy as it seems, the fundamentalists are far more likely to gain political influence than other extremists. The real question is how much influence the fundamentalists have in the muslim society. And this is where we lack unbiased information, because we mostly have the two extremes of either "politically correct" information like for example the crime-reports from sweden which avoid mentioning any religious aspects, or we find what seems to be paranoid right-wing propaganda. Take this article as an example: http://www.sullivan-county.com/wcva/londonstan.htm - http://www.sullivan-county.com/wcva/londonstan.htm I really wouldn't want to refer to any website like this for credible information, and it is easy to see why. And this is why I actually started this thread, because I hoped for what you might call "independent insider information". |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 12:48
|
Yeah! We have to remember that old religious extreemist named Jimmy Carter, yup! He and his whole family were "Bible thumping racist Southern Baptists!"
Yup! Just like me! I come from a long line of them! The earliest ones were what is now called "Primitive or Foot-washing Baptists!" Yup, just bring your dirty old feet over here and I will give them a good thrashing er?, washing! Yup!  ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 15:59
I dont think that religion is gaining power in the developed world, I think its only in a select few countries, notably the United States. I think that most of the developed world is wholly committed to secularism.
Well, lets hope that the pope goes to jail first of all for concealing child abuse.
Well, I guess thats the European perspective, but like I said, the threat in Europe isnt necessarily Christian radicalism, but Islamic radicalism. In the US, the threat here is Christian radicalism and they have a lot of money and influence unfortunately.
Muslim extremists are right wing. Also, whereas I said before, the United States gets Muslims that are economically middle and upper class (due to strict immigration policies), Europe tends to get the poor Middle Eastern and North African Muslims. These youths growing up in Europe tend to drift towards religion because preachers are so good, as they have been for thousands of years, at using religion to manipulate and control people.
Believe it or not, and contrary to what we are told, radical Islam, and by radical Islam I mean the desire for Islamic governments and an Islamic way of life, are very popular throughout the Muslim world, especially in the Arab world and in Iran and Central Asia. In Iran alone the regime of the Mullahs has at least 20 million hardcore supporters. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: Night Crawler
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 21:15
TGS- we agree on this-I am Christain and very dedicated. However, I will not force my belifs on any one else. Also I don't think that religion should have any place in Government. That being said just becuase some one is a preacher shouldn't disqulify them from Government service. That is saying becuase you are relgiuos you have no place in Government Service and that is just wrong. You are in a sense taking away thier citizenship.
|
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2010 at 21:44
A rabbi, mullah, prist, or minister could not rule in a secular manner, their judgment will always be clouded by their religious beliefs. I'm not trying to deny anyone their rights, what I'm saying is that you choose your path, either dedicate your life to religion, or politics, but not both. For example, you shouldnt be both a priest and a president, that is the opposite of separation of Church and State. A person who chooses to be a priest, rabbi, mullah, or minister effectively gives up their right to be a politician in a secular democratic country, by definition. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 04:17
|
But Church and state arent seperate, thats just a post enlightenment fallacy.
------------- |
Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 06:33
|
Wel, I wouldnt completely agree with that statement but I believe that there is still too much religion in government. ------------- I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time. |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 09:49
|
Here is an article about a riot that took place yesterday in Stockholm: A few interesting parts: "Stockholm - Up to 100 youths rioted for two straight days in a heavily immigrant suburb of Stockholm, throwing bricks, setting fires and attacking the local police station, police said on Wednesday. "They set fire to a school building... They tried to set fire to the police station and other buildings and vehicles, but mostly they have thrown rocks and bricks at police and fire fighters," police spokesperson Mats Eriksson said. [...] "The whole thing started when a group of young adults were not permitted to enter a junior high school dance. They got angry and started throwing rocks through the school windows," Eriksson said." http://www.news24.com/World/News/Riots-rock-Stockholm-suburb-20100609 - http://www.news24.com/World/News/Riots-rock-Stockholm-suburb-20100609 Now from my experience being prevented from joining such an event is nothin unusual. But they took offence and organized as a group, concentrating their anger at the swedish state. What did the firefighters and police do to enrage one houndred people? I guess they would't even have enough manpower to deliberately evoke such an outburst of violence among ethnic swedes. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 11:19
Boy this is getting out of hand so please stop the name calling Christophobe or Islamphobe please stop it and get back on topic both of you please! ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 11:37
This is truly a clash of culture and for the Muslims who want to be part of Scandinavian culture than bless them. The ones who don't asimilate and want to jam sharia law on the natives then they can go back to the cess pool they came from. I feel the same way about USA and all are welcome if they are willing to accept our laws and greater culture and add to it. Immigration is good to a point but who wants malcontents who will not assimilate. There are a number of Muslims in Tucson, mostly converts, but I agree with TSG that most here are liberal but we still have trouble makes like CAIR. Hooper from CAIR says that Islam is not in America to be equal with other religions or philosophies. I can get along with anyone but when they are a threat to our culture and freedoms than they are not welcomed,anyone including Christians, I don't see the threat with them. We are a sovereign nation so in no way are we obligated to let anyone in and we can pick and choose who immigrants here or really if we had a strong President in office. Sweden, Norway, Germany or even Greece has the same right- borders, language and culture - M. Savage I come back to the Scandinavia countries because that is what this is about and not America but we have a similar problem, Europe is just further down the road than us. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Van_Möck
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 12:14
I see it the just the same way. Actually it seems so obvious that one has to wonder how anybody could argue against it. But now in Europe some people might get agitated about this view, calling it racist, islamophobic and so on. It seems as if there is some kind of secret competition in political correctness and self-chastisement. And this is how a responsible and realistic debate is made impossible. To most people the fear of being discredited by moralists is just too great. Unfortunately the people who don't care about it are often from the extreme right-wing political spectrum, so the whole open discussion is running in circles, as soon as it begins. But if the things continue the way they are going now, according to the critical observers, the situation will escalate. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 12:36
I agree although in my part of Arizona people understand the potential threat. I hate racism but Islam is not a race, it is a religion. Just like many other faiths it is made up of many ethnic groups so I tend to ignore the name callers. I hope that Europe gets a Firt Amendment because I hear that Europeans has less protection in free speech. This is way Fjordman does his blog out of the USA. I am multi ethnic so I hate racism period and you can see it in the people I call friends,I am not picky as long as they are honest and upright. I am Mostly German and Greek but also scotch Irish, French, English, Dutch, Native American and god only knows what else. It is not about race but it is about protecting your culture and way of life and if that is racism than too bad. Europe needs to wake up other wise I fear for her future and ours as well. Euorpeans and even many Muslims don't want Sharia law, that is why many left their former countries. There is group in America called Muslims against Sharia law whcch I support. http://www.reformislam.org/ - http://www.reformislam.org/ These are Muslims but I wonder if TGS will still call them Islamophobes. Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist, has been called this. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 13:37
|
I love this quote from Muslims against Sharia law, which speaks volumes. I welcome these Muslim wherever they go.
Brothers and Sisters! Do not make the next generation of Muslims clean up your mess! Fight Islamic Fascism now, so your children won't have to! http://www.reformislam.org/ ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: C. Isaurikon
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2010 at 18:38
I totally agree with both of you. People unwilling to respect the laws and customs of a host nation, and trying to impose foreign customs on others or inflict violence, should be sent back to where they came from. When societies don't stick up for their identities all that means is that the ethnic group with the biggest migration numbers and which has an asshole mentality will eventually just transform their host nations into another version of their original homeland. And this is a terrible outcome. The fact that these sorts of riots are happening in a country like Sweden, which has a wonderful host culture and strong social welfare to assist integration, only proves that insisting on migrants adopting the host culture of their new home is the only right way to do things. The problem is that people get squeemish when sanctimonious people cry 'racist', and this needs to stop. A country that is attractive enough to bring in migrants is also one that should be proud enough of its cultural identity to defend it. This isn't racism, just pure common sense. |