Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Where was the ancient "Gaul" located? Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 13:08 |
Is it important that I agree or not? Do you have a better hypothesis, other than what most scholars believe?
http://www.fact-archive.com/encyclopedia/Celt : The Celtic language family is a branch of the larger Indo-European family, which leads some scholars to a hypothesis that the original speakers of the Celtic proto-language may have arisen in the Pontic-Caspian steppes.
|
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 13:40 |
Gaels are not Gauls. Gaul is "Galli" in Latin, as far as I know. Pliny does not say those people are Gallic! You are making things up again. Again I suggest you to stop the word plays.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You should read footnotes, there are some
problems, if we consider "Gaul" as "European Gaul", for example no.2
says "It is clear that if India lies to the west of Gaul, it cannot be
Pliny's meaning that it is refreshed by the west wind blowing to it
from Gaul."
What is the reason that Pliny says that Alexander and others sailed from India to the Caspian sea? |
The Romans considered the
Caspian sea to be a bay of a Northern ocean, thus it could be possible
to sail from India. Further, he never says that Alexander sailed that way (you
make many similar reading mistakes, maybe you skim everything through
without understanding?). As for your question, maybe you should follow your own suggestion and read the last foot note.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Is it important that I agree or not? Do you have a better hypothesis, other than what most scholars believe? |
You haven't started with source criticism yet, I presume?
Edited by Styrbiorn - 02-Sep-2008 at 13:40
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 19:59 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
There is certianly a relation between Gaels, Gauls, Gallians, Galatians,
|
And between Welsh, Irish, Scots and Bretons but they don't have similar names.
On the other hand the Doges of Venice had nothing much to do with the dogs at the Kennel Club.
Written in 1849, and a popularisation even then. Studies of PIE were only just beginning and I doubt if anyone at Chambers new anything about them.
"The Celtic nation possessed, a space of country extending from the Pillars of Hercules [Gibraltar] to Asia Minor and beyond the Caspian. (east of the Caspian sea)" and this book: The Annual Review and History of Literature says "The Celtic tongue once prevailed from Gibraltar to the Caspian.
|
Well if you take that literally then a lot of Gaels were not Celts. It is of course trivially wrong. Portugal and parts of Spain and Ireland are west of Gibraltar.
Anyway Celts aren't Gaels, though Gaels are usually considered Celts (pace Paul). Gaels are the westernmost of the Celtic peoples. In the early studies of Indo-European studies, Gaelic was not even considered to be a Celtic or I-E language, though it is now.
The path of migration lay, no doubt, from Caspian toward Armorica." |
It would be very strange if it did. Migrations usually spread out in more than one direction (where geography permits).
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 20:20 |
Styrbiorn, it seems you believe there has never been any migration to Europe and all peoples of this continent have alwyas lived there! It is really interesting for me that you prefer to believe the existence of the Copernican science in the ancient times but not a Gaulish presence in the east of the Caspian sea!!
|
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 21:05 |
http://www.giftofireland.com/Celticmummies.html
The mystery of China’s celtic mummies
Solid as a warrior of the Caledonii tribe, the man’s hair is reddish brown flecked with grey, framing high cheekbones, a long nose, full lips and a ginger beard. When he lived three thousand years ago, he stood six feet tall, and was buried wearing a red twill tunic and tartan leggings. He looks like a Bronze Age European. In fact, he’s every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so.
His discovery provides an unexpected connection between east and west and some valuable clues to early European history.
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 02-Sep-2008 at 21:12
|
|
|
Slayertplsko
Chieftain
Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1061
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Sep-2008 at 22:28 |
Oh guys, sorry to inject here, I just wanted to say I love this forum
|
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 06:31 |
I think it is because you learn new things here! Lets compare Celtic and Tucharian numerlas:
Proto Celtic 1. oinos -> Tocharian "sas"? / Gaulish "oino" 2. d(w)oßu -> Tocharian "wu" / Gaulish "do" 3. treis -> Tocharian "tre" / Gaulish "tri" 4. kwetwar(s) -> Tocharian "sêtwar" / Gaulish "petvar" 5. kwenkwe -> Tocharian "paànþ" / Gaulish "pinpe" 6. swe(k)s -> Tocharian "sŽaàk" / Gaulish "suekos" 7. sektnŽ -> Tocharian "sŽpaàt" / Gaulish "sextam" 8. okto -> Tocharian "okaàt" / Gaulish "oxtu" 9. nauin -> Tocharian "nþu" / Gaulish "nau" 10. deknŽ -> Tocharian "sêaàk" / Gaulish "decam"
|
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 07:46 |
It is interesting to read this thread too: http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=18127
A Wakhi girl in northwestern China
One to Eleven in Wakhi language: http://www.nb.no/baser/morgenstierne/nirmali/nirmali/Imra/Audio/Wahi/SKWahi2.qt
North-eastern Iran
|
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 08:55 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Styrbiorn, it seems you believe there has never been any migration to Europe and all peoples of this continent have alwyas lived there! It is really interesting for me that you prefer to believe the existence of the Copernican science in the ancient times but not a Gaulish presence in the east of the Caspian sea!! |
There were plenty of migrations, no doubt about that. You are inventing things though. Misreading ancient sources, mixing up Gaeli with Galli, basing arguments on pre-industrial propagandists and never criticise your sources. Stop doing those things and I promise people will start listening to you more. You even misunderstand in this very post. No one has been talking about Copernican science in the ancient time. Read this carefully: the Greeks knew the world was round, and even measured it's circumference.
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I think it is because you learn new things here! Lets compare Celtic and Tucharian numerlas:
|
Or maybe we are amusing him ;) Tocharian and Celtic languages are both Indo-European... this seems like a repeat. I have a feeling this is turning out to be yet another Scythian thread.
Edited by Styrbiorn - 03-Sep-2008 at 09:22
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 11:01 |
Presumably there's a connection between 'gaels', 'gauls' and 'girls'. Half the human race is therefore Persian.
|
|
Slayertplsko
Chieftain
Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1061
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 11:45 |
Cyrus admit it! You're joking! I know you are.
|
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 12:02 |
Originally posted by Slayertplsko
Cyrus admit it! You're joking! I know you are. |
In that case I'll make a thread and declare myself the biggest fool of this forum.
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 18:50 |
There were plenty of migrations, no doubt about that. |
just from an European country to another, not from Asia, Afr , yes?!
You are inventing things though. |
What did I invent? The problem is just that you believe in no sources, even modern websites!
Misreading ancient sources, mixing up Gaeli with Galli |
At least Galli is more similar to Gaeli than Gaul, isn't it?
basing arguments on pre-industrial propagandists and never criticise your sources. |
I think those poor pre-industrial scholars didn't know that modern European would hate to hear that their ancestors came from Asia!
Stop doing those things and I promise people will start listening to you more. |
Unfortunately I couldn't find any source which proves something that you want!
You even misunderstand in this very post. No one has been talking about Copernican science in the ancient time. Read this carefully: the Greeks knew the world was round, and even measured it's circumference. |
Yes but round like a circle not a sphere, so they believed the world to be flatround and the oceans encircle it, I'm sure you knew but what does it prove?
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 03-Sep-2008 at 18:52
|
|
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended
Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 18:57 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Misreading ancient sources, mixing up Gaeli with Galli |
At least Galli is more similar to Gaeli than Gaul, isn't it?
|
Depends what alphabet you are using.
You even misunderstand in this very post. No one has been talking about Copernican science in the ancient time. Read this carefully: the Greeks knew the world was round, and even measured it's circumference. |
Yes but round like a circle not a sphere, so they believed the world to be flatround and the oceans encircle it, I'm sure you knew but what does it prove? |
Nope, they belived it to be spherical. As wikipedia has it:
The modern belief that especially medieval Christianity believed in a flat earth has been referred to as The Myth of the Flat Earth. In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history. Recent scholarship has argued that "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat" and that the prevailing view was of a spherical earth.
|
Edited by gcle2003 - 03-Sep-2008 at 18:58
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 20:05 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
just from an European country to another, not from Asia, Afr, yes?! |
No, there were plenty of those as well. Doesn't make it right to invent some based only on name comparisons.
The problem is just that you believe in no sources, even modern websites! |
I don't give much credit to the sources you have presented, no. Try to choose some more modern sources instead of posting pseudo-historians, 19th century propagandists and similar.
|
|
Slayertplsko
Chieftain
Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1061
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 20:29 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Misreading ancient sources, mixing up Gaeli with Galli |
At least Galli is more similar to Gaeli than Gaul, isn't it? |
I don't mean it as any kind of offence Cyrus, but this is the same nonsense as when you were comparing 'Slav' to sakalaba or what it was. Simply, both Slav and Gaul are modern English varieties, you don't want to say that ancient Gauls spoke English, do you?
|
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
|
|
Slayertplsko
Chieftain
Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1061
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 20:39 |
Another Saka-gerrak?? When are the Slavs on turn?? Perhaps Republika Polska would be in fact pol-saka??
Edited by Slayertplsko - 03-Sep-2008 at 20:41
|
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
|
|
Slayertplsko
Chieftain
Joined: 13-May-2008
Location: Slovakia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1061
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 20:46 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
There is certianly a relation between Gaels, Gauls, Gallians, Galatians, ... |
Who were Gallians?? Anyway, I was thinking about opening a threat to prove that Persians come from Slovak mountains...perhaps when I get into such a silly mood...
Edited by Slayertplsko - 03-Sep-2008 at 20:56
|
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open.
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 05:10 |
I say it again that Pliny knew there were some Gaulish people beyond the Caspian sea, so he thought the world should be similar to it:
... For it has been explored not only by the arms of Alexander the Great and of the kings who succeeded him, by Seleucus and Antiochus, who sailed round even to the Caspian and Hyrcanian Sea ...
It is obvious if you read this chapter: Book 6, Chapter 39 about the earth division into parallel circles.
|
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 05:21 |
Originally posted by Slayertplsko
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
There is certianly a relation between Gaels, Gauls, Gallians, Galatians, ... |
Who were Gallians??
Anyway, I was thinking about opening a threat to prove that Persians come from Slovak mountains...perhaps when I get into such a silly mood...
|
|
|
|