Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
jayeshks
Earl
Joined: 04-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 281
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Emergency in Pakistan Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 03:11 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
As a muhajir, I can say with confidence that the feeling isn't mutual.
|
Off topic, but I didn't know that. I thought you were of Arab descent.
What I meant by true democracy is that it is impossible to implement a working democracy without a massive change in the countries demographics. Only a military dictator will have the slightist possibility of thinking about attempting that.
|
Could you elaborate on what you mean by the demographics shift? You mean like breaking the power of the traditional landowning classes?
|
Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 03:31 |
Originally posted by Mughaal
The thing about Pakistan is its a nation filled with whores on the Senate seats ready to sell themselves to the highest bidder.
Being that as it may, i understand CJ Chaudary was releasing known terrorists to piss off Musharraf and somehow reclaim himself among his biradery. (group)
Knowing Pakistan's culture of feudalism, this whole affair is about right.
Lets try to understand things; Pakistan is a Feudal Oligarchy, not a Republican Democracy. |
This is perhaps the most objective description of the situation.
|
God is not great.
|
|
Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 04:11 |
Business as usual in Pakistan.
Now that Musharraf has US's blessing, all the world can do is just take a deep breath and see where this typhoon of political turmoil ends up with more massive protests and repression likely to continue.
One thing is for certain, as long as Musharraf and his ISI buddies remain in control, the Northwest Frontier will remain a Taliban center of operations, deals with militants will continue, and more NATO and Afghan troops, Afghan and Pakistani civilians will die in the process.
|
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 05:11 |
Their is this news about his exchanging some soldiers by releasing 25 hard core terrorists. Rumors are also their the bloody trail of explosions & terrorist attacks on the security forces preceeding the imposition of Martial law were orcehestrated by Mush himself to prepare as a justification for imposing martial law, should the supreme court's decision go against Mush.
Edited by SuN. - 06-Nov-2007 at 05:12
|
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous
Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 14:33 |
Originally posted by maqsad
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by maqsad
Some people are saying that the threat to national security is just a smokescreen and that the real reason for his second "coup" is megalomania and some hidden agenda.
|
Who was this second coup against? |
The very same people to whom he promised 'freedom to elect' after 8 years of pompous "caretaking".
|
Fascinating isn't it?. A coup against your own govt. What a unique distinction.
Edited by malizai_ - 06-Nov-2007 at 14:33
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 14:48 |
Originally posted by Afghanan
Business as usual in Pakistan.
Now that Musharraf has US's blessing, all the world can do is just take a deep breath and see where this typhoon of political turmoil ends up with more massive protests and repression likely to continue.
One thing is for certain, as long as Musharraf and his ISI buddies remain in control, the Northwest Frontier will remain a Taliban center of operations, deals with militants will continue, and more NATO and Afghan troops, Afghan and Pakistani civilians will die in the process.
|
You forgot having to babysit 3 million plus Afghans and get abused by another 3 million. may be we should start dispatching them home then.
|
|
Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 15:25 |
Maybe they should. Its better they go back to Afghanistan then some jihadi camp in Pakistan.
|
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 15:56 |
Maybe The Afghans should start claiming their territories in NWFP, which went to Pakistan due to some stupid British line. They would be better united with their brethern.
|
|
maqsad
General
Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:43 |
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by maqsad
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by maqsad
Some people are saying that the threat to national security is just a smokescreen and that the real reason for his second "coup" is megalomania and some hidden agenda.
|
Who was this second coup against? |
The very same people to whom he promised 'freedom to elect' after 8 years of pompous "caretaking".
|
Fascinating isn't it?. A coup against your own govt. What a unique distinction. |
Whats a guy to do when he spends a good part of 8 years nursing a puppet govt only to have them start thinking that they can behave as independent as they appear to be.
|
|
maqsad
General
Joined: 25-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 928
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:46 |
Originally posted by SuN.
Maybe The Afghans should start claiming their territories in NWFP, which went to Pakistan due to some stupid British line. They would be better united with their brethern.
|
Such touching concern for the welfare of the Afghan people, Vivek, I must say I am impressed! Must be the same reason India has what...two dozen consulates in Afghanistan now?
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:56 |
Originally posted by malizai_
Fascinating isn't it?. A coup against your own govt. What a unique distinction. |
It's not unheard of. Fujimori also did it in Peru in 1992.
|
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous
Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 17:28 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
Originally posted by malizai_
Fascinating isn't it?. A coup against your own govt. What a unique distinction. |
It's not unheard of. Fujimori also did it in Peru in 1992.
|
Thxs for the details, i wasn't aware of that.
It is still a first for Pakistani's though. You have to love the speed of the update. Musharraf's name is already in the List of self-coup's below:
France: Charles Louis Napoleon Bonaparte (December 2, 1851)
Italy: Benito Mussolini (January 3, 1925)
Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes: King Alexander (January 6, 1929)
Germany: Adolf Hitler (March 23, 1933)
Brazil: Getlio Vargas (November 10, 1937)
Thailand: Thanom Kittikachorn (November 17, 1971)
Philippines: Ferdinand Marcos (September 21, 1972)
Peru: Alberto Fujimori (April 5, 1992)
Guatemala: Jorge Serrano Elas (May 25, 1993; failed)
Russia: Boris Yeltsin (October 3, 1993)
Nepal: King Gyanendra (February 1, 2005)
Pakistan: Pervez Musharraf (November 3, 2007)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup
He has also suspended the constitution twice, does anyone know any parallels?
|
|
Mughal e Azam
Colonel
Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 21:00 |
Im beginning to doubt Musharraf now. Its been three days and no advances on the NW Frontier.
All he has done so far is crackdown on dissidents.
Political dissidents.
|
Mughal e Azam
|
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 22:49 |
Originally posted by jayeshks
Off topic, but I didn't know that. I thought you were of Arab descent. |
I'm of highland scott decent if that helps too. My grandfathers parents were arabs, but he grew up in India, then he left for Pakistan in '47. My grandmother is also a muhajir of Mughali stock.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by the demographics shift? You mean like breaking the power of the traditional landowning classes? |
Exactly like breaking the power of the landowning class. Also a massive improvement in literacy and infrastructure is needed.
|
|
Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Nov-2007 at 01:54 |
Originally posted by SuN.
Maybe The Afghans should start claiming their territories in NWFP, which went to Pakistan due to some stupid British line. They would be better united with their brethern. |
Claim territories? No, this is the time to secure their own territories because if the Pak military is too busy cracking down on Lawyers and dissidents, they are not watching the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Pakistan, who are itching to cross the border and resume suicide bombings. Just today 64 people, including men, women, children and elderly in Baghlan province were murdered by cowardly terrorists.
|
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
|
|
malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous
Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Nov-2007 at 13:32 |
For those interested, it seems upon further research, ..that there exists a precedence for a self-coup in Pakistan. In 1958, Syed Iskander Ali Mirza, the then President, initiated a coup against his own govt, to bring into effect the suspension of the constitution. The tool to enact this coup was General Ayub Khan. Incidentally General Ayub has to his credit the distinction so far of being the only one to abdicate, when faced with the prospect of serious instability and bloodshed.
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 12:26 |
Today Even benazir has been put under house arrest so that she cannot hold her rally. Students also seemed to have joined the protests with the political parties & lawyers.
|
God is not great.
|
|
Gharanai
Arch Duke
Afghan Empire
Joined: 26-Jan-2006
Location: Afghanistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1515
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 17:37 |
How about the rumors of a clash between Gen. Kehyani and Gen. Musharaf? Has anyone heard anything about it as some people in Uni today were speaking out that Gen. Kehyani demanded Gen. Musharaf that it's time for the army to go back to their barracks and leave politics to politicians.
Any news regarding it, I don't know what is going on right now with Pakistan as these are some crusial times not only for Pakistan but for the region.
Just yesterday I read this small article saying "The Game: Taking Afghanistan to hit Pakistan in order to take control of Iran."
If that has anything to do in real then it really isn't good time for the region, while just yesterday Bush said that "if world didn't want to see the Third World War then Iran shall forget about attacking Israel."
|
|
|
Gharanai
Arch Duke
Afghan Empire
Joined: 26-Jan-2006
Location: Afghanistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1515
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 17:40 |
Another interesting article which I read in recent days was labled "Blood Borders" which tried to show how the middle east could be restored to a peaceful enviroment while to me it looked another DIVIDE AND CONQUER policy.
|
|
|
Afghanan
Chieftain
Durr e Durran
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1098
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 23:46 |
Gharanai remember the saying "Divide and Conquer"
All the map will do is destabilize the region worse. The more fractured Muslim nations are in this map, the better they will be manipulated by foreign powers against each other.
Secession and Unions rarely happen without catastrophic bloodshed, case in point - Pakistan & India.
|
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
|
|