Emergency in Pakistan
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22379
Printed Date: 06-Jun-2024 at 06:54
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Topic: Emergency in Pakistan
Posted By: SuN.
Subject: Emergency in Pakistan
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 13:48
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Just seeing on TV that Mush has imposed emergency in pakistan. All private media has been banned. All internet has been banned. Supreme court has been conquered by Mush's army. The hief Justice of Pakistan has been arrested. Their so called fragile constitution too has been impounded. Supreme Court's decisions have been overthrown. All cable TV has been banned. Ironically the Pakistani channels continue to be availaible in India, though they have been zammed in pakistan!!! |
Replies:
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 13:50
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This will have grave implications for the entire region. How exactly will it affect the concerned persons & regions remains to be seen. At present their seems to be only confusion going around on their TV channels. I am watching some channel named DAWN TV & it seems to be a total chaos. |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 13:55
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Just heard Asma Jahangir informing that even BBC has been blocked all over the country.
------------- God is not great. |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 14:21
| BBC says it does'nt look like a mere emergency, more like a full scale Martial law being imposed. |
Posted By: Majkes
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 15:29
I've heard there won't be any elections in January.
|
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 15:33
| Reporters said Mush had learnt through his intelligence that the Supreme court was going to rule against him on 6th November. So he pre-empted them by this despotic act & arrested themselves including removing the Chief Justice of Pakistan Supreme Court. |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 17:16
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Mushy even went and arrested the personal defence lawyer of the supreme court justice, Aitzaz Ahsan in his home. This lawyer, AItzaz that mushy had arrested I suspect was a key player in the "lawyer's revolt" against army government which was instrumental in getting the supreme justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry reinstated a few months ago, to the supreme court. Now this makes mushy look like a vicious gangster rather than a benefactor doing this purely to stabilize the country. I also seem to recall that Chaudry was cracking down on a deal involving pakistan steel mills which he alleged was being sold off at a deep discount in some corrupt deal. Chaudry stopped the deal and he was removed some time after that, forcibly by mushy & co. |
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 17:48
And the US and the "coalition of the willing" does nothing but express their "concerns".
 ------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: andrew
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2007 at 21:46
| Oh boy, this looks serious Musharraf has officially anounced a state of emergency. This will shift American support from Pakistan to India now. |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 02:28
Pakistan still is very relevant in the 'war on terror' for the US to still play nice (no matter what the rhetoric). |
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 04:49
| Yay! Democracy wins again in the Middle East! |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 04:58
Indian government had considered issuing a strong protest, but did'nt because it could have been used as a tool by Mush to claim that his detractors & Pakistan's enemy no. 1 (India) are united in fighting him So Indian government just issued a statement saying that this matter is an internal problem of Pakistan & that India hopes that Pakistan will see better days. |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 06:06
I wonder if part of the reason(or the excuse) behind declaring this emergency was the Taliban proceeding to conquer vast tracts of swat valley, including this police station: According to the official public declaration document circulated by Mushy & Co. one of the reasons for the state of emergency is because the judiciary was going to easy on terrorists and forcing the government to release suspects who were being "investigated" for terrorism. That is mushy's official reason for disbanding the supreme court, especially judge Ifthekar whatzisname who ironically mushy handpicked himself. So that is the reason he gives for installing a new handpicked legal team. A very complex separate aspect of the whole coup I imagine though I dunno any other details, yet. |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 07:01
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One of the saddest things that seemed to us is Asma Jahangir & Imran Khan being put under house arrest. Personally saddening or me was the chief Justice Iftikhar Choudhry & so many of the upright judges Khaleel-ur-Rahman, Farhad Shaikh etc.., lawyer Aijaj Ahsan being arrested. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2007 at 20:56
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This is pretty bad. Bhutto seems to be the wildcard in this, I wonder what she's going to do.
------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: andrew
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 02:10
To bad Pakistan is not in the Middle East.
 They are on the South Asian circuit therefore this is their problem, Pakistan has very little if any influence on the Middle East.
|
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 02:47
Except through Al-Qaida & terrorists they harbour & support. |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 03:05
 Glad to see the military keeping control. Note that Musharaf said he wanted to bring true democracy, and this definitely a step in that direction, away from the corrupt shambles that has been pakistani democracy in the past.This has restored much of the faith I lost in Musharaf over the last few months.
Ideally, she will be arrested and executed for corruption, with her assets seized and her peons liberated. But thats a little too optimistic on my behalf. I don't think Mushy has that much power.
No it won't. Pakistan has had many military rulers in the past, this won't change anything. Besides, the americans aren't exactly going to win any popularity competitions in Pakistan so democracy isn't in their interests. ------------- |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 03:52
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True. On the contrary the American support to Pakistan will increase. The reason is very simple. Feeling frustrated, Opponents of Mush will start making attacks on him. That will give another reason to Mush to go to US & cry Wolf Wolf. The US may or may not like Mush, but it surely would'nt like this wolf. So it would give more funding & arms to Mush. |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 09:23
| There was confusion today with all the news channels claiming in the morning that Mush has been placed under house arrest by his subordinates who are unhappy at the imposition of martial law. Then in the afternoon news came that he is free. |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 10:07
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ideologically I am opposed to any move towards this type of leadership, anything that doesn't gain the legitimacy of popular support and input. i also don't like the level of control any militray (inc this one) has in civilian life, and should serve the people in the capacity of territorial defence only, no politics. Ok now, that i have put that qualifier in first. i tend to agree with Omar's sentiments on this. Democracy that is corrupt and dysfunctional is much worse than pragmatic dictatorship. Musharaff to me, seems to be the pragmatist. I have no time for corrupt has-beens either. Pakistan seems to be going through a very rough, if not dangerous time right now. I am not at all comfortable with the domestic rise of the 'taliban' style militants and there seems to be a fracturing going on that must be stopped before this gains anymore momentum. The USA tend to love align dictators more than democratic governments, if this situation suites their cause they will back him more. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 10:07
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1) What took him so long. Now he can crackdown and restore order. "Democracy" can go to hell.
2) Checo, the provisions for emergency are in the constitution. It can last for a period of one year.
3) Swat valley never had any police stations, like many of the old princley states it was allowed to keep its old instititutions on joinng Pakistan; one of the reasons they have proved ineffective. Now Frontier police have been rushed there, they will control this. ------------- |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 10:56
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^Glad to see the media and internet ban is exactly as truthful as I had expected.
------------- |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 11:29
| Very good to hear that Imran Khan has escaped from the clutches of Mush. He is such a good person. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 11:55
How is this moving towards "true democracy"? I see the argument for him being better than Pakistan's traditional party leaders right now, but why do you expect him to act any differently from any of Pakistan's previous military dictators? With his power secured, the constitution suspended and the opposition basically silenced I think he couldn't care less about moving the country into democracy. ------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 13:03
Countrywide crackdown : Hundreds of lawyers, rights activists and politicians detained LAHORE, Nov 4: Police and other law-enforcement personnel launched a crackdown across the country on Sunday, apparently fearing a large-scale protest campaign against imposition of emergency. Opposition politicians, prominent lawyers and rights activists were detained in large numbers in several cities and towns of the country. Prominent among those detained included PML-N acting president Javed Hashmi, ANP chief Asfandyar Wali Khan, former ISI director-general Gen (retd) Hameed Gul and rights activists I.A. Rehman and Iqbal Haider and hundreds of other people on the second day. Police detained over 600 people in Lahore. Javed Hashmi was arrested from Multan. I.A. Rehman and Iqbal Haider were lodged at Asma Jehangir’s house. Ms Jehangir has been under house-arrest since Saturday evening. Around 70 civil society activists were arrested when they gathered at a Joint Action Committee meeting of the HRCP in Garden Town to discuss the situation after the imposition of emergency. Lahore District Bar president Mohammad Shah, Lahore High Court Bar Association president Ahsan Bhoon, advocates Ashtar Ausaaf, Khalid Hussain and Iftikhar Bhatti were also arrested. The Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) and the Pakistan Tehrik-i-Isnaaf claimed that over 1,200 and 50 activists, respectively, had been detained in two days of crackdown. In Rawalpindi, police rounded up nearly 60 people, including a retired judge, the former ISI director-general, lawyers and human rights activists. Officials said that around 400 ‘preventive arrests’ had been made across the country. Shortly after the imposition of emergency, police and paramilitary personnel started patrolling the federal capital territory and Rawalpindi and erected barricades and barbed wires on roads leading to the Supreme Court building and set up sand bunkers at exit and entry points. A red-alert was declared in all prisons in Punjab and jail staff were called on duty on Sunday night. Aitzaz Ahsan, the newly-elected president of the Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA), who was arrested from Islamabad on Saturday night, was sent to the Adiala jail. Former SCBA Munir A. Malik was shifted to the jail on Sunday morning. Gen (retd) Hameed Gul, his son Abdullah Gul, Justice (retd) Tariq Mehmood, colonel (retd) Iftikhar Baig and advocates Mian Sanaullah and Afzal Ahmed were arrested on Sunday and taken to the Adiala jail. Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam leaders Abdul Hameed, Hafiz Mohammad Shaukat, Hafiz Nazeer and Omer Farooq and PML (N) leader Mansab Khan were arrested in Rawalpindi. Police also picked up several other people and are conducting raids on homes of lawyers and political activists. A senior police official said: “There is no specific target for arrests, but our main concern is to foil Monday’s protest announced by opposition parties and lawyers.” Shops were open, but traffic was thin on roads and markets were deserted. In Attock, police detained PML-N city president and UC naib nazim Dr Sheikh Waseem and city vice-president Dr Sheikh Waseem Saddique. PML-N’s UC councilor Abid Hanif, PML-N Attock secretary information Mubaris Khan and Haji Iqbal of Jamaat-i-Islami were also arrested. Many lawyers and political workers went underground to avoid arrest. Awami National Party president Asfandyar Wali Khan was placed under house-arrest in Charssada. He told reporters that through one order, the NWFP home secretary had issued his detention for one month while through another order his residence had been declared a sub-jail by the government. Mr Khan said that in fact Gen Musharraf had imposed martial law against the judiciary. “Under the Constitution, only the president could impose emergency on the advice of the prime minister, but in the present case the army chief issued the proclamation of emergency which was unconstitutional,” he added. Meanwhile, a meeting of the ANP peace committee, presided over by senior vice-president Haji Ghulam Ahmad Bilour, was held on Sunday. It vowed to resist the imposition of emergency. In Nwabshah, police picked up PPP leader and Nawabshah District Bar Association general-secretary Zia-ul-Hassan Lanjar from his office. In Sukkur, police arrested Imdad Awan, acting chief of the Supreme Court Bar Association, and Shahryar, son of Shabbir Shar, general-secretary of the Sindh High Court Association (Sukkur chapter). In Hyderabad, three activists of the Sindh Taraqqi Pasand Party were held on charges of forcibly closing shops. In Quetta, police sources confirmed that two lawyers were arrested and they were conducting raids in different areas to arrest lawyers and political activists. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 13:12
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They can be held for twenty four hours without charge. Then they must be released. Anyway the media is sensationalising the whole thing again, I am a lawyer and I am perfectly alright, went to the courts today, all okay again.
In any case under most have been arrested under sec 144 MPOA and thus will be released in twenty four hours anyhow.
Internet ban? I did not log on yesterday since I was in Lahore. ------------- |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 14:57
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LOL you are a lawyer who is completely unopposed to mushy's latest action otherwise of course you would be arrested, lawyer or not. There is no law that is compelling mushy to arrest people who don't like him or his actions. He gave the ORDER to round those people up for a reason and that reason is he wants to dictate who controls the power in pakistan and who goes and sits in a corner and shuts up. That is the point. Its linked to his firings of the judges as well I suspect. Some people are saying that the threat to national security is just a smokescreen and that the real reason for his second "coup" is megalomania and some hidden agenda. The western press, GEO/ARY, Indians and the local urdu press will all put different spins on the situation and distort it for their own agendas so I will not quote anyone else but this man, the wannabe mustafa kamal of pakistan is really starting to disturb me now. |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 15:22
| Sparten may be a lawyer supporting Mush, but he is an exception. The lawyer community of Pakistan is solidly opposing Mush. The fact that he was in Lahore does not negate the fact that Internet, telephone & Mobile lines had been jammed yesterday. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 15:26
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Mushy did not give that order (to arrest), seriously you need to read up on seperation of powers. Only a magistrate, in this case the District Judge Islamabad can make an order of the type mentioned above after the request of the District Commissioner and Nazim. These are arrests under the MPOA, specifically sec 144. Under this a preventative detention can be made (for up to 36 hour, IIRC). I am not unopposed to everything Musharraf dose, but in this instance well emergency was needed.
------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 15:29
Lets see, I used all three yesterday and day before. All three were working, my house is 1 km from the Supreme Court and the judges colony, nothing was jammed there. And I am not an exception or a majoritry either in my profession or as a Pakistani.
The lawyer community of Pakistan is solidly opposing Pakistan
What? Can didiate for stupidest post in AE History. ------------- |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 16:00
didiate, ? Candidate for stupidest mistake in English history ? |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 16:09
I never said he was an exception, I dunno if he is a minority or the majority either and it doesn't matter because the point I was making is that if he wanted to say something against mushy in public he would be arrested. If he persisted he would be charged with something that keeps him in jail, potentially, for more than a few months.
I did not mean mushy gave a direct military style order to a bunch of MPs to fan out all over Islamabad and arrest anyone who is on a list created by ISI or otherwise waving placards around. I DID mean it to be an implicit analogy to that theoritical scenario however, and it does not matter if the actual documents were inked by a "magistrate" because that magistrate is just another puppet of Mushy & Co. Ridiculous you might say? Well it would seem ridiculous to a lot of people except right about now, just a few days after the chairman of Mushy and Co. told that capo di tutti capo of all pakistani lawyers that his "services are no longer needed". Come on, after this very public incidence of an arrogant display of might you point towards a mere magistrate as having any sort of sovereign authority in Islamabad? |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 16:18
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Sparten Dear, you are a moderator. A moderator is a position of great significance & responsibility. With 2659 posts, more than one & half years of experience in AE & the status of a moderator, you are expected to nurture, develop & enhance the skills of fellow forumers, specially new ones by pointing out their grammatical & language mistakes as well as those of thought & not indulge in games of one upmanship with ordinary new forumers having less than 1/20th of your experience. With due respect to your office of a moderator, I am feeling very very sad in pointing out a small mistake of yours & asking if it can be the stupidest mistake in English history. Felt Specially awkward, because you are a moderator & the chair (Position) of the moderator (if not the person as we don't know each other) deserves respect. The only purpose of my pointing out this mistake of yours is that we all should realise that making mistakes is human, which we all are. History is said to repeat itself. If we are using a weapon, we should ensure that we are ably guarded against that weapon ourselves, otherwise it leads to embarassment. I Remeber that incident of Hannibal vs the roman general Skepius or Spekius (I dont remeber very clearly) who very cleverly used Hannibal's own tactics to defeat him |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 16:23
| I myself like Mush because he is a Muhajir & Indians have a weak spot for all muhajirs, but then this is a different situation. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 17:34
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If you have any issues with my modship, well please feel free to complain to the admins in a PM. Under the terms of the CoC, you are not allowed to do so on the forum itself.
As for my opinions. Well, I have made mine quite clear. Secondly, about Muhajirs, I can assure you the feeling is not mutual. ------------- |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 18:15
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The thing about Pakistan is its a nation filled with whores on the Senate seats ready to sell themselves to the highest bidder.
Being that as it may, i understand CJ Chaudary was releasing known terrorists to piss off Musharraf and somehow reclaim himself among his biradery. (group)
Knowing Pakistan's culture of feudalism, this whole affair is about right.
Lets try to understand things; Pakistan is a Feudal Oligarchy, not a Republican Democracy. ------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 20:24
Who was this second coup against? ------------- |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2007 at 23:13
As a muhajir, I can say with confidence that the feeling isn't mutual.
Thats perfectly fine in my books. What I meant by true democracy is that it is impossible to implement a working democracy without a massive change in the countries demographics. Only a military dictator will have the slightist possibility of thinking about attempting that. ------------- |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 01:39
The very same people to whom he promised 'freedom to elect' after 8 years of pompous "caretaking".  |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 03:11
Off topic, but I didn't know that. I thought you were of Arab descent.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by the demographics shift? You mean like breaking the power of the traditional landowning classes? ------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 03:31
This is perhaps the most objective description of the situation. ------------- God is not great. |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 04:11
Business as usual in Pakistan. 
Now that Musharraf has US's blessing, all the world can do is just take a deep breath and see where this typhoon of political turmoil ends up with more massive protests and repression likely to continue.
One thing is for certain, as long as Musharraf and his ISI buddies remain in control, the Northwest Frontier will remain a Taliban center of operations, deals with militants will continue, and more NATO and Afghan troops, Afghan and Pakistani civilians will die in the process.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 05:11
| Their is this news about his exchanging some soldiers by releasing 25 hard core terrorists. Rumors are also their the bloody trail of explosions & terrorist attacks on the security forces preceeding the imposition of Martial law were orcehestrated by Mush himself to prepare as a justification for imposing martial law, should the supreme court's decision go against Mush. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 14:33
Fascinating isn't it?. A coup against your own govt. What a unique distinction.  ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 14:48
You forgot having to babysit 3 million plus Afghans and get abused by another 3 million. may be we should start dispatching them home then.
------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 15:25
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Maybe they should. Its better they go back to Afghanistan then some jihadi camp in Pakistan. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 15:56
| Maybe The Afghans should start claiming their territories in NWFP, which went to Pakistan due to some stupid British line. They would be better united with their brethern. |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:43
Whats a guy to do when he spends a good part of 8 years nursing a puppet govt only to have them start thinking that they can behave as independent as they appear to be.  |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:46
Such touching concern for the welfare of the Afghan people, Vivek, I must say I am impressed! Must be the same reason India has what...two dozen consulates in Afghanistan now?  |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 16:56
It's not unheard of. Fujimori also did it in Peru in 1992. ------------- |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 17:28
Thxs for the details, i wasn't aware of that.
It is still a first for Pakistani's though. You have to love the speed of the update. Musharraf's name is already in the List of self-coup's below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-coup He has also suspended the constitution twice, does anyone know any parallels? ------------- |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 21:00
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Im beginning to doubt Musharraf now. Its been three days and no advances on the NW Frontier.
All he has done so far is crackdown on dissidents.
Political dissidents.
------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2007 at 22:49
I'm of highland scott decent if that helps too. My grandfathers parents were arabs, but he grew up in India, then he left for Pakistan in '47. My grandmother is also a muhajir of Mughali stock.
Exactly like breaking the power of the landowning class. Also a massive improvement in literacy and infrastructure is needed. ------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2007 at 01:54
Claim territories? No, this is the time to secure their own territories because if the Pak military is too busy cracking down on Lawyers and dissidents, they are not watching the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Pakistan, who are itching to cross the border and resume suicide bombings. Just today 64 people, including men, women, children and elderly in Baghlan province were murdered by cowardly terrorists.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2007 at 13:32
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For those interested, it seems upon further research, ..that there exists a precedence for a self-coup in Pakistan. In 1958, Syed Iskander Ali Mirza, the then President, initiated a coup against his own govt, to bring into effect the suspension of the constitution. The tool to enact this coup was General Ayub Khan. Incidentally General Ayub has to his credit the distinction so far of being the only one to abdicate, when faced with the prospect of serious instability and bloodshed. ------------- |
Posted By: SuN.
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 12:26
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Today Even benazir has been put under house arrest so that she cannot hold her rally. Students also seemed to have joined the protests with the political parties & lawyers.
------------- God is not great. |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 17:37
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How about the rumors of a clash between Gen. Kehyani and Gen. Musharaf? Has anyone heard anything about it as some people in Uni today were speaking out that Gen. Kehyani demanded Gen. Musharaf that it's time for the army to go back to their barracks and leave politics to politicians.
Any news regarding it, I don't know what is going on right now with Pakistan as these are some crusial times not only for Pakistan but for the region.
Just yesterday I read this small article saying "The Game: Taking Afghanistan to hit Pakistan in order to take control of Iran."
If that has anything to do in real then it really isn't good time for the region, while just yesterday Bush said that "if world didn't want to see the Third World War then Iran shall forget about attacking Israel."
------------- 
|
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 17:40
 http://live.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899 - Blood Borders by Ralph Peters
Another interesting article which I read in recent days was labled "Blood Borders" which tried to show how the middle east could be restored to a peaceful enviroment while to me it looked another DIVIDE AND CONQUER policy.
-------------
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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2007 at 23:46
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Gharanai remember the saying "Divide and Conquer" All the map will do is destabilize the region worse. The more fractured Muslim nations are in this map, the better they will be manipulated by foreign powers against each other.
Secession and Unions rarely happen without catastrophic bloodshed, case in point - Pakistan & India. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2007 at 00:41
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They do their best to cause ethnic tension in the region and now they're proposing the only solution for a peaceful future? That's some funny stuff right there - but plausible if you're ignorant of the evil nature of the motive force that has gripped all powerful Western nations.
Germany, that vulture in dove's clothing, initiated the bloody break up of Yugoslavia by supporting a nationalist Neo-Nazi Croat group, dressing it up as a human rights movement. The middle eastern mould will be much harder to break and 'balkanise', perhaps taking several generations. I personally don't think the proponent powers of this plan will maintain their international status to sustain it for the prescribed length of time.
------------- |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2007 at 13:04
DearAfghanan,
I totally agree with you and that's what I already said and have being saying since long that the only way for a western country to dominate the middle east and south asia is to divide them as if they are togather they are a power (tough they don't have any techno or advance weaponary comparing the west but still they have a belief).
So I too guess that if this plan is ever implemented the only outcome of it would be more bloodshed and further more destabilization of the region and now adays we can also see the interfarence of Russia in the regional politics as well, which makes me worried as agian two Powers will face each other and fight against each other and the end result would be that another poor nation will get most of the distructions as they never face each other straight away but through a neutral nation....
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Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2007 at 22:43
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Came across this news report which surprised me, yet the government's inaction in Swat also puzzles me as to why they allow a bunch of thugs to create this mysterious "pakhtunistan emirate". Nawaz, Fazl call detained ANP chief
|
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 16:18
That's quite a shocking news because if implemented (which will be done as that's the best way for west to rule the region by dividing it) Afghanistan will also loss it's wartorn south and east to the so called Republic of Pashtunistan....
That's why I had previously proposed the unification of Pakistan and Afghanistan as a single country, while now if above plan is implemented both countries would be the losers and a regional powerful state would take control of the surroundings.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2007 at 18:53
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ANP, can't even win in their own areas. ------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2007 at 02:12
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Here is the reply of Imran Khan after he snuck away from his House arrest by good ole Musharraf:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSPkLSmQSFY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSPkLSmQSFY
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 12:21
I have to ask you not to use the verb "balkanize" of Balkanization" again, because it's part of a larger negative stereotype concerning the history and the nature of the Balkans. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 14:51
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Though that word carries emotional undertones due to baggage from the past it still is a word that can be fitting for efforts to 'divide and rule'. I don't think we need to be too politically correct ------------- |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 14:58
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In that hypothetical map on the previous page, which were most likely drawn up by mentalities that are not even good at the game of risk, I noticed something quite jovial. Aside from redrawing the middle east the map lists the west bank as, 'status undetermined'. Well, hit me over the head with a bubber duck! Does that mean the status of those other absurdly defined borders are already determined? ------------- |
Posted By: Ulrich Wolff
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 16:54
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http://www.gnn.tv/articles/3392/East_is_East - http://www.gnn.tv/articles/3392/East_is_East You might find this article helpful. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2007 at 18:58
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"Thousands of lawyers"? Don't make me laugh. ------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 05:25
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The general pulls a fast one
By Syed Saleem Shahzad KARACHI - A few days after President General Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency on November 10, Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), the secret service agency, met with leaders of the opposition parties to decide on a roadmap for a caretaker administration leading to general parliamentary elections in January and then to a post-election government. The opposition parties, including the six-party religious alliance, the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal, and the ruling Pakistan Muslim League, finalized a seat adjustment mechanism through which these leading parties would receive significant representation in the next government. At the same time, the ISI had a separate meeting with the Pakistan People's Party and assured its leader, Benazir Bhutto, that she would head a caretaker administration as prime minister. As a result of these meetings, the opposition response to the declaration of the state of emergency was relatively muted - most reaction came from the legal profession, outraged at the sacking of Supreme Court judges, as well as the chief justice, and the suspension of the constitution. But this week, the day that Pakistan finalized the details of a visit by US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte, starting on Friday, it also announced an interim government - and without Bhutto. Mohammedmian Soomro, chairman of Pakistan's Senate since 2003, was appointed interim prime minister to prepare for the parliamentary elections. The message from the government to Bhutto was that it wanted a "non-controversial" premier. Bhutto's reaction was immediate and cutting - she called on Musharraf to step down as president, something she had not done before. But again the reaction of her supporters and those of other opposition groups was muted and they were unable to mobilize a significant show of strength on the streets. Even Imran Khan, the leader of one of the smaller opposition parties, Tehrik-e-Insaf, was handed over to the authorities by students of one of the parties close to his. So at the time of Negroponte's visit, there are unlikely to be any opposition rallies, and he will be advised that the only players in the ring are militants, including the Taliban, and the Pakistani military headed by Musharraf. And Negroponte will be told that the military is quite capable of dealing with this threat. In other words, the US-inspired plan for Musharraf to form a political alliance with Bhutto is off the table - for now at least. Lulled by Musharraf's intrigues, Bhutto has not been able to stitch together an alliance of opposition parties. In the meantime, perhaps as a show for Negroponte, Musharraf has switched on the "war on terror" in the Swat Valley in North-West Frontier Province. Over the past few days there has been a surge in military operations in the area against militants, including the Pakistani Taliban. Musharraf can flick the off switch at any time, subject to the demands of the militants. They have already been granted their call for sharia law in the Swat Valley, but the real issue is the withdrawal of Pakistani troops from the key areas from which supplies are sent to the Taliban in Afghanistan. Either way, Negroponte knows that he will be dealing with Musharraf, who for now has effectively sidelined the opposition. Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 07:17
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This Saleem Shezad Khan, seriously he is privy to every pillow talk in Pakistan. We should just disband ISI and hire him. ------------- |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 07:18
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Everyone is running away from swat valley right now because they know all hell is going to break loose! Paki govt told them to get the hell out or risk being killed in the crossfire. Swat residents want both the army and the taliban to leave but the taliban wants to establish an islamic emirate running on shariah law and the army wants to kick them out. By Hameedullah Khan MINGORA, Nov 19: Security forces on Monday directed that two villages in the Kabal sub-division of the troubled Swat District be vacated, while two other villages in the area came under intense shelling in the evening. The forces claimed to have made some gains while advancing towards Alpuri, the headquarters of the adjoining Shangla district, which was occupied by militants a week ago.The people of Dagai and Akhund villages, about 25km from here, were seen fleeing the area in large numbers following the announcements made by security forces on loudspeakers. Witnesses said the two villages had a combined population of about 50,000. Many women and children were seen treading the mountain road on foot because of non-availability of transport. Owners of public transport, particularly of vans, have increased their fares and due to the rush of people, it is difficult to find seats in the vehicles. “An announcement was made on loudspeakers by soldiers that the two villages should be vacated by 5pm,” an inhabitant of Dagai said. He said the villages were considered the strongholds of militants led by radical cleric Maulana Fazlullah. The Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) claimed that they had requested the villagers to vacate the area to avoid civilian causality. Spokesperson for the militants Sirajuddin told Dawn that they were still open to negotiations. He claimed that a war had been imposed on them by the government and they only wanted enforcement of Shariah. “We were looking after the law and order in the area since police have fled and the life and property of the people are at risk due to presence of anti-social elements,” Sirajuddin said while talking to Dawn from an undisclosed place. Meanwhile, reports of intense artillery shelling were received from Hazara and Guljaba villages. There were no reports of casualties as the local population claimed they were not in a position to confirm the number of people killed or injured. According to reports reaching here from Shangla, sporadic clashes took place as troops advanced towards Alpuri. Official sources said security forces had been inching towards Alpuri through the mountains and were avoiding the road connecting the district headquarters with Bisham, another key town of Shangla. The ISPR in a press release said security forces had resumed their operation against militants in Rheem Sar Banda, about 6kms from Alpuri. Residents said people in upper parts of the Swat district were facing an acute shortage of food because of the closure of roads. Our correspondent adds from Buner: A jirga comprising police and tribal elders met in Swari on Monday and vowed to keep militants and security forces out of the district. They said they would themselves maintain peace in the area, adding that militants from the adjacent districts would not be provided shelter or support. The jirga was attended by a large number of elders, including JUI-F district Amir Maulana Mohammad Haleem, JUI-S Amir Maulana Shereen, ANP secretary-general Syed Laiq Bacha, PPP-P president Usman Shah Khan, PPP (Sherpao) leader Sher Akhbar Khan, PML (Q) president Sir Zamin Khan, PML (N) president Sardar Jehan and Pakistan Awami Party chief Fanos Gujor. Meanwhile, the people of Chaghorzaiwal area near Shangla, expressed concern over the presence of forces in the Maradoo High School and claimed that the education of around 600 students in the area was being affected. They asked the government to vacate the school and residential areas. They also formed a jirga for maintaining peace in the area. - http://dawn.com/2007/11/20/top2.htm |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 15:26
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Bad times in both Afghanistan and Paksitan for the innocent civilians as they are the most effected by these wars. -------------
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Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 14:07
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Bhutto is dead. ------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 14:18
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Many people will be relieved especially in Sindh Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 14:20
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Sad day. WHatever she was it is a shame that a Prime Minister of Pakistan should go this way. ------------- |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 15:02
| She was alive when she reached the hospital. Which means blood should have been waiting for her at the lobby. The neck is nothing more than a muscle, its got the spinal chord as well as the jugular; nothing else important. If the jugular had been hit squarely she would have died in minutes, it was probably a minor artery or even a vein along with a muscle laceration and the lousy doctors screwed things up by not pumping her with O2 and fresh blood right away I bet. |
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 16:04
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Sad day indeed, she knew it was coming too. Its a shame we don't have more courageous politicians like her here in US as well.
------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 17:44
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What goes around comes around. It was under Bhutto that the extremist Taliban were funded and promoted. Its only fair she dies from her own bad medicine.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 17:55
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I was wondering when you would slink around here with your utterly useless bigoted, inaccurate and inane opinions. ------------- |
Posted By: Kevin
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 18:33
Hey Sparten how is the situation on the ground in Pakistan were you are? If you don't mind me asking? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 18:35
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Its troubled. And I expect trouble for the next few days esepcially in her native province of Sindh and in some of the urban areas of the counrey where she enjoyed great support. ------------- |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 18:40
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To be honest, I too didn't really liked her policies and way of governence, but still didn't wanted her death. I know I don't like her way but still there are millions of people who really liked her and followed her.
Therefore, I present all my condolence to her family members and followers/supporters on this grief event.
May Almighty bless her soul and guid the people who still are alive to the right path of humanity. -------------
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Posted By: Kevin
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 18:59
What part of Pakistan do you live Sparten? ------------- |
Posted By: Kevin
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 19:03
She was weak and ineffective and what could be described as possibly corrupt but she most certainly didn't deserve to die. ------------- |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 19:16
Well he and me both live in Islamabad, very much near the accident and the situation is getting worse minute after another.
Lets just hope for the best... -------------
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Posted By: Kevin
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 19:25
Like they say here during a disturbance like the LA Riots that happened here. Just stay inside, Keep the doors locked and if possible put solid large objects near your windows just in case something tries to break in that way or throw something in. ------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 20:30
Nothing inacurrate about it. She even apologized about her involvement in the Taliban's creation. She thought they would bring national reconciliation in Afghanistan and stressed the need for a trans-Afghan pipeline to fuel Pakistani demand for oil.
I think everyone can agree that her assassination was a barbaric and inhuman act. However, after the emotions subside, she will be known for her Taliban double dealings, her corruption, and her fued with Sharif and Musharraf.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2007 at 20:35
Ameen to that.
I also hated her original policies in Afghanistan. She supported and promoted the extremist Taliban while denying it to the West. Later she regretted her policies and went against the extremist Madrassas and the Taliban. Its too bad, what she helped create was now part of her downfall. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 15:59
Yes, her policies toward Afghanistan was a disaster for the Afghan government of then, and mostly she was called the mother of Taliban.
Upon that I remember one Pashto saying where it says; "Ca che kare agha ba reabe!"
Meaning "What you cultivate is what you get!"
But to directly blame the action on Taliban would not be a mature decision, as there was not just Taliban who could have got the benifit of her killing but there were alot of other parties as well.
I also read in headlines of a local newspaper about Ghanwa Bhutto saying "Murtaza was shoot in the neck and died, and same goes with the actor of the action."
I am not quite sure if that really was quoted by her or not but in some cases one could not turn his eyes from the comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtaza_Bhutto#Murtaza_Bhutto_and_Asif_Ali_Zardari - This link may help one to know more about the relation of Murtaza with Benazir and her husband. -------------
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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2007 at 18:49
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True, her death puts the advantage to all her enemies. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2008 at 15:53
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The Race for Pakistan
Who do you think will win?
-Musharraf
-Nawaz Sharif
-Zardari ------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2008 at 17:02
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Musharraf has already won. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2008 at 20:05
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Busharaff needs to be marginalized and kicked off stage, his presence is bad for the national security of Pakistan. Western mass media is full of wacky conspiracy theories about "al qaida" planning spectacular operations to grab pakistani nukes ending with the ridiculous premise that mushy is the only thing standing between an "islamist nuclear arsenal" and the status quo--all because of mushy's twofaced strategy of appeasing the west while babbling "pakistan first" in Islamabad. The reason the western press and Indian press is full of all these scenarios is because elements in both want to soften up their publics to a "seek and seize" operation in pakistan which they are dying to do. Mushy came to power promising to be another mustafa kamal but he was too retarded to turn the public sentiment far enough away from the direction of a talibanized mullah caliphate in his tenure. This puppet is either going to be in power 4 years too long or he is going to be killed as step #2 of a plan to seize control of Islamabad's nukes and what is left of sovereignty. |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 04:04
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Pakistan will never even appreciate Mustafa Kemal. They spit on his grave, then piss on it, then shit on it.
Pakistan is too Islam Concious, i can never see them banning hijab or imitating nations like Morocco, Tunisia, Syria or Lebanon or Turkey. ------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 04:38
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^ Great language there Mughaal. It seems that what Pakistan really needs is either to be broken apart into its ethnic and religious identity groups or a really brutal dictator to hold it together that Musharaf isn't. Well its just too bad a Saddam Hussein comes only once in a rare while... ------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 06:29
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Hello to you all
Turkey post WWI had lots of Sufis and very few Islamic scholars and even fewer Islamic based intellectuals. Attaturk did three smart things that Musharraf couldn't do in a million years:
1-He distroyed the power of Sufi orders by closing their Tekkes and confiscating their property.
2-He exiled Islamic scholars all over the Islamic world and those who stayed, were silenced either by the gun or by prison.
3- He did the coup d'grace by replacing the Alphabet when most people were illiterate and forbidding the use of the old one and only translating what served his purposes. He simply detached Turkey from its past.
Musharraf has 15000 madrassah on his hand while Attaturk had no parallel for them, many of these are elite schools teaching math, computer science and have a high standard that can be compared to top schools anywhere. There are tens of Islamic universities that not only teach Quran and Islamic Jurispudence but engineering and Medicine as well and tens of thousands of scholars, real scholars graduate from them.
AL-Jassas
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2008 at 09:26
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^
IIU and Hamdard maybe. Can't say much about the rest. ------------- |