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Deano
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Topic: Worst and most unsucsesfull nation in history Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 01:22 |
What is he most unsucsesfull nation/empire in world history.I think its gotta be the nation of a day wich was realy a natio that lasted a day.It was the nation of Iriquoes wich while writing the nation stuff where raided by british troops and slaughtered.They never became a nation(dah).
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I AM FARTAKUS!
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Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 04:17 |
No surprise at all. Everybody knows Nazi SS troops learn from the British genocides on indigenous peoples around the world. Yeap, emotionated, Hitler himself congratulated Brits for theirs service to mankind by cleaning the planet of savages (Hitler's oppinion, not mine)...
Anyways. The Iroquois federation were a nation long before the pale-faced invaded the New World. They didn't invented democracy as some claim but the federal system. The so called "founding fathers", starting by Franklin and Jefferson, copied the idea from the Iroquois without paying royalties.
Now, even with British brutality, it is quite clear by now that most Native Americans managed to integrate to the waves of immigrants. You find more Native DNA in American people that what would be expected if Indians had become extinct.
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Anyways, there are many nations that have been absolute failures. In the Americas, the record is for Haiti.
Edited by pinguin - 27-Oct-2007 at 04:20
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Deano
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Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 14:12 |
Originally posted by pinguin
No surprise at all. Everybody knows Nazi SS troops learn from the British genocides on indigenous peoples around the world. Yeap, emotionated, Hitler himself congratulated Brits for theirs service to mankind by cleaning the planet of savages (Hitler's oppinion, not mine)...
Anyways. The Iroquois federation were a nation long before the pale-faced invaded the New World. They didn't invented democracy as some claim but the federal system. The so called "founding fathers", starting by Franklin and Jefferson, copied the idea from the Iroquois without paying royalties.
Now, even with British brutality, it is quite clear by now that most Native Americans managed to integrate to the waves of immigrants. You find more Native DNA in American people that what would be expected if Indians had become extinct.
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Anyways, there are many nations that have been absolute failures. In the Americas, the record is for Haiti.
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I understand that but after the europeans came the iroques thought the only way to keep land was to make it a certified country.It was a big deal between Native americans because their belief were that no one owned the land.So they ratted the about 250 people wich would of lived in the nation out.
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Frederick Roger
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Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 20:44 |
So your question is more about failed states rather than failed nations, right?
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 21:22 |
One question Pinguin, why do you hate the brits?
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Posted: 27-Oct-2007 at 22:37 |
Originally posted by Al Jassas
One question Pinguin, why do you hate the brits? |
Who said I hate the Brits? I admire some of them, particularly Sir Isaac Newton, Shakespeare and James Watt, among others. Besides, I preffer Brit Rock rather than American
What I hate is british arrogancy , and the fact they blame Spaniards for everything but they didn't recognize theirs own crimes... And, of course, I am concerned that now they want to robb us the Antarctic.
Nothing personal against Brits. They will learn some day they are not worst or better than the rest. Let's hope they learn theirs lesson in a peaceful way, though
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deadkenny
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Posted: 28-Oct-2007 at 15:46 |
Originally posted by pinguin
No surprise at all. Everybody knows Nazi SS troops learn from the British genocides on indigenous peoples around the world. Yeap, emotionated, Hitler himself congratulated Brits for theirs service to mankind by cleaning the planet of savages (Hitler's oppinion, not mine)... |
I must say that by this sort of comment you display your own ignorance. What exactly is it that you claim 'everybody knows' that Nazi / SS troops 'learned' from the British? What 'genocides' do you claim that the British committed 'around the world'? Do you know what 'genocide' means? India is currently one of the most populous countries in the world, and it was part for the British empire for a long time. So clearly the British didn't commit genocide in that part of their empire. Where else do you claim then that the British committed genocide? It is very revealing that you appear to 'gloss over' the actions of the Spanish in the New World, while making unfounded accusations at the British.
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Frederick Roger
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Posted: 28-Oct-2007 at 16:42 |
Penguin certainly exagerates the role of the British and their past, but he does have a point in saying that some of the Nazi regime policies regarding treatment of the population are based on british actions. I guess its a cycle, now we have others learning from the nazis...
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deadkenny
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Posted: 28-Oct-2007 at 17:16 |
Originally posted by Frederick Roger
Penguin certainly exagerates the role of the British and their past, but he does have a point in saying that some of the Nazi regime policies regarding treatment of the population are based on british actions. I guess its a cycle, now we have others learning from the nazis... |
For example? What exactly would that point be? Other than obviously being blatantly and unapologetically anti-British and at the same time incredibly chauvinistic about his own culture and history.
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Posted: 28-Oct-2007 at 17:27 |
Concentration camps most notably in S Africa but invented for India. The "Criminal Tribes Act" whereby if a certain ethnic group was annoying the Brits, they would declare all members criminals, and anyone could kill them, rape their women and capture their land. The last use of this was in WWII against a group in what is now Sindh province, the Hurs. Also the famine in Bengal back in '43-'44 caused by the diversion of food to Europe, killed 10 million people.
British acted in their interests. They were exceptionally cruel when they had to be. I don't make any judgements. Just relate a fact.
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Posted: 28-Oct-2007 at 22:57 |
H.G.Wells, in his novel "The war of the worlds" critizices strongly British Colonialism. That was precisely the example that every European power followed during centuries.
Colonialism was based in the division of the world between civilized and savages (in other times were just called "rustics", as with the Americans of 1770s)
Colonialism derivated in Social Darwinism and the idea that some people was superior than others. Colonialism also teach nations they have the right to control other nations and people to work as slaves for them.
Nazism was only the extreme imitation of all those ideas. In short, Nazism was not born in the vacum. It got precedents.
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Sock Puppet
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Posted: 29-Oct-2007 at 19:24 |
Don't know much about the Brits. Kinda had an empire and blew it then had a socialist state and blew it. Now have a memory and are blowing it.
Been to Chile however. A generation grew up under Pinoche and just like the Hitler youth have no capacity to think outside the doctrine. This seems to me to be Chile's present Zietgeist. A nation of Pinoche zombies. It's a strange alien mentality to people from free thinkng countries but this to me explains Pinguin's Nazism and I feel pity for him rather than contempt.
Hey why has my post count dropped to 1?
Edited by Sock Puppet - 29-Oct-2007 at 19:25
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Seko
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Posted: 29-Oct-2007 at 19:50 |
Sock Puppet is banned!
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Posted: 29-Oct-2007 at 20:21 |
There was not need. I was going to explain kindly the facts of my country .
Actually, a dictator like Pinochet affect us Chileans a lot, thousand died and a million emigrated forever, which was a dissaster for a small country like we are.
However, the most shameful crimes of my country are not precisely the ones of that stupid dictator. Ask Peruvian about our invasion to theirs country. Ask the phantoms of the Onas of the Land of Fire why they don't live anymore between the kingdom of the living people. Ask the victims of Santa Maria of Iquique why they were massacred.
Every country has crimes. The important think is to recognize them. I just demand, kindly, the same from the Brits.
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 01:29 |
Originally posted by Seko
Sock Puppet is banned! |
I am confused. Is this a joke, because I thought you are supposed to say "[name] is banned!" like a maniac only in the warning forum
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longshanks31
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 11:48 |
pinguin is right in a way but a bit round the houses, the germans admired us more than any other, they did not want war with us and did not declare war on us, the kaiser was a cousin to our royal family and its well documented that hitler did not envisage war with britain considering us to be kind of aryan brothers whatever the hell that means.
but the germans did emulate us and want to become us, the same as we emulated to become the equal of spain and france in the past.
And now china emulates to become equal of the USA.
All through history its happened
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longshanks31
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 11:55 |
we should learn from history, never elect an austrian unless you live in austria (hard luck california)
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long live the king of bhutan
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Peteratwar
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Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 14:30 |
Just a point about the Criminal Tribes Act, the Indian Government still kept it in force for at least 2 years after independance. It was replaced by a very similar act which has only been repealed a few years ago. However as ponted out there is still a similar mind-set against these nomadic peoples in India to-day.
Secondly it did NOT allow for the wholesale killing and raping of people.
The '43 famine was not particularly due to food being diverted. There was quite a lot of food around but being hoarded by third-parties. The areas under direct British rule suffered far less than those still under the rule of the native Princes.
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longshanks31
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Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 15:46 |
its up to 5 now sp lmao
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jayeshks
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 20:35 |
There was a book out about issue of British atrocities in India a couple of years ago: Late Victorian Holocausts by Mike Davis. Lots of examples there including one of the 1876 Deccan famine caused by the Viceroy's reluctance to reduce any exports to Britain. The authorities then passed an act which forbid any kind of personal charity or relief work for the farmers which might "interfere with the market fixing of grain prices." Millions died and thousands were put into labour camps and worked to death. Following this was a military campaign against the same farmers to "collect all taxes in arrears."
All this goes even without mentioning the events which galvanized the independence movement (sepoy mutiny, jalianwala bagh massacre etc.)
The British did the same in all their colonies: South Africa, Kenya, Tasmania etc. as did the Germans and French in their colonies. That was just the order of the day, the colonized were by definition weaker and deserved whatever was coming to them. That kind of brutality simply returned to Europe during WW2. Like pinguin said, it wasn't without precedent.
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Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly
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