Are France and Poland antisemitic?

maharbbal you are jewish now? didnt you say youre a greek coming from constantinople in the 18th century?

sorry if i made a mistake.

Originally posted by Joinville Originally posted by Dharmagape Originally posted by ataman It is another crap statement. Even Communists weren't 'systematically anti-jewish'. In the period 1945-1956 a lot of Jews were more than welcomed workers of the State administration. For example they were largely employed by the Ministry of Public Security, whose main goal was a political repression and physical elimination of Communist opponents. Actually, much more Poles died froim Jewish hands, than Jews from Polish hands. Would you mind expanding on that? Is there really any facts to back up such a statement? And is this a common Polish sentiment, that the Jews have been killing Poles in large numbers?

1. What I meant by that is that the management of the stalinist Ministry of Public Security (known also as the Office of Security) consisted of Jews, almost totally. The only one ethnic Pole in the management was Radkiewicz. Mietkowski, Fejgin, Romkowski, Światło, R�żański, Jakub Berman and others were ethnic Jews. Some of them were not even Polish Jews but Jews "imported" from the Soviet Union. Very similar situation had taken place in other Eastern European countries, which have been dominated after WWII by the Soviet Union. Generally, the overrepresentation of people of Jewish origin in communist regimes is significant, especially in:
a) security services, secret policies and apparatuses of repression;
b) higher posts and positions of communist regimes and parties.
2. 60 to 80 % of higher NKVD officers were of Jewish origin. Source: Jaroslav Hrycak's "Historia Ukrainy. 1772-1999" ("The History of Ukraine. 1772-1999").
I think that you know that the Ministry of Public Security and NKVD killed hundreds thousands of Poles during
a) the Great Terror
b) the Soviet occupation 1939-41
c) the stalinist regime implied on Poland in 1944-56
For instance, historians know currently that during two years of the Great Terror in Soviet Union approximately 144.000 Poles have been arrested by NKVD. The predominant majority of them were later shot. Source: "Polak�w setkami brać!", "Gazeta Wyborcza", 11-12 VIII 2007.
That is why I wrote: [/QUOTE]Actually, much more Poles died from Jewish hands, than Jews from Polish hands.[/QUOTE]
3. You called it "sentiment". I think that generally many inhabitants of former communist countries in Eastern Europe (Baltic states, Russia, Belorus, Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, former Yugoslavia, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia) realize that people of Jewish origin had a significant role in communist apparatuses of repressions (NKVD and its clones) and in communist movements and governments in Europe. This "sentiment", as you called it, is not circumscribed to Poland.

So i guess Poland having harboured jews for centurys is actualy antisemetic i never wouldve seen that one coming .

I´m not up to speed on recent French antisemitism. But there´s no point denying the rabid antisemitism in Poland during the inter-war years. Quite frankly, it´s possible to argue that antisemitism was even more widespread among Poles than Germans. When it comes to institutionalized antisemitism there´s certainly no comparison, but that should be more attributed to the political organization of Germany.







Edited by winningstad - 17-Dec-2008 at 15:14

My answer, as regards the "original" question, is YES!

It is ingrained for centuries! And, groups on both sides continue to keep the hatred, from both sides, to continue!

A Polish blood sucking insect?   

But, you understand that you are you and millions of other Poles and Franks, and English are not you!

I speak for the mainstream center! While it may not be openly manifest, it always exists under the table, in private jokes, etc.!

Nothing much can be done about it, I am afraid!

And, besides, in France, for example, a large minority of the nation is Moslem! Do I have to ask their position vis a vis the Jews?

Maybe the real question might have been? "Are France and Poland anti-muslim?"

Would any of your answers change? Would mine?

But, of course, as in many things that I write, I could well be wrong? I certainly hope so!

Regards, as always!

Edited by opuslola - 07-Apr-2010 at 15:26

Thanks for your view! Perhaps my view is clouded by my mostly American upbringing? But, amongst people aged 60 or older, in most of the USA, there has always existed a smouldering anti-semite feel! As I said, it is subtle, but lingering!

And, to let you know, that my view is not limited to just one or two places (areas) I have lived for months at a time in NYC, Philadelphia, Washington, DC (Virgina side), Seattle, Los Angeles, Dallas, Memphis, the Florida Pan-handle area, New Orleans, Mobile, AL, Del Rio, TX, Glenn Co., FL, and the Gulf Coast of Mississippi! The only states in the USA that I have not seen, are Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut and Rhode Island! Yes, I have also been in Hawaii and Alaska!

Due to work or pleasure, I have also visited Germany, England, Spain, Portugal, France (and Monte Carlo), Italy, Greece, Austria, Israel, Turkey, Japan, China, Taiwan, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Mexico, etc.!

And, after seeing all of the photos that Cyrus has posted concerning Iran, I certainly wish I has also visited it!

As Yoda might say "Well travelled, I am!"

So, as you might see, I don't think that I am merely a product of limited contact with other people and other ideas, etc.!

My Regards, as always!

I sometimes feel that Jewish jokes are a lot like Polish jokes, or Finlander jokes, or take you pick of various peoples picked for a time to take the brunt of jokes, no matter how serious the background of the joke might be!

Jews and Arabs for a fact, have been jokingly accused of being "ussery earning" bankers for years! And by who's authority did they get these jobs? Why by the so called Christian Church or certain Popes, etc,!

According to both Jewish and Arabic history (I believe) all debts were supposeldy forgiven after "seven years" or so! If I am incorrect please point out my mistake(s)!

Almost any new group of persons from one world to another is suddenly thrown into the "joke group" by virtue of their "strange" customs as well as their "bad language!", that is, they did not speak the language spoken by the majority!

Well, you get my point, I am sure!

Back, to Beck@!

What do we define as anti-Semitic? Some would consider opposition to ANYTHING the state of Israel might do to be anti-Semitic; I do not.

If those claiming the French and Polish are an anti-Semitic people, that is that their mainstream populations are guilty of overt racial prejudice and injustice against Jews, then that might be a good point to start from in looking at the issue.