A question regarding what i can post.

Furthermore, the topics do not only concern Turkey singularly but other countries as well I do not see where your rationale comes for assuming that Turkey can not be criticized, the purpose of the blacklist is that certain events of which there were more than one participator that cause flame-wars are restricted so that the smooth flow of this forum is not interrupted.

The forum tried banning users on an individual basis before, not just for this topic, and the flame wars it caused, but in general, however, such topics generate an annoying, and infinite number of trolls that simply banning individual users does not do much good. The forum has been active for years it is a learned reaction to what used to be an ongoing problem.

Originally posted by armenica Originally posted by es_bih Furthermore, the topics do not only concern Turkey singularly but other countries as well I do not see where your rationale comes for assuming that Turkey can not be criticized, the purpose of the blacklist is that certain events of which there were more than one participator that cause flame-wars are restricted so that the smooth flow of this forum is not interrupted.   But why then not ban the user(s) instead on banning the issue? I can't quite grasp that solution. Admin could simply warn and then block the users in question instead on apply mass-censorship.   ...and I don't intend to prolong this discussion just in order to re-open this topic. That's up to the forum and admin. I simply think that it's pitty that a "history forum" should be forced to close down such a up-to-date question when the EU talks abuot it, US Congress talks about it, the Jewish organisations in US have started to reconsider their stand in regard to this question etc. But if you think that it's nothing but head ache, then it's entirely your call.   Cheers!

Originally posted by armenica Well, the topic is being discussed in 3-4 other forums that I'm member of

On some subjects those who write are just like lemmings. You can tell them,

If you keep going that way, you will get into flame wars.
No we won't!
Yes you will!
And it starts all over again.

I'm a little puzzled as to why 'immigration into the USA' is blacklisted. I don't see how US history can really be properly covered without intrducing immigration.

     Seko, I just have a simple inquiry about this whole thing. I don't care if we can talk about the topic or not on the forum (although I'm not in favor of a blacklist), as it gets very redundant disproving the same lies and propaganda over and over. I think any reasonable person who has researched the topic on their own will see what really happened.

     My main concern is why, on the blacklist, Armenian Genocide has quotations around it? That is a very subtle way of getting a particular message across. I highly doubt anyone would write Jewish Holocaust in quotes without being branded as a racist (which probably wouldn't be far from the truth). And its not like its a mistake, as none of the other blacklisted topics have quotations around them. I just want to know why there are quotes around an event which was confirmed to have happened by, among thousands of other scholars, the man who invented the term genocide, Dr. Raphael Lemkin.

     Putting quotes around the name of the event, as well as banning discussion on the topic (not that I care to rehash the discussion) gives the idea to a neutral, not-in-the-know individual that there seems to be two sides to the event in question, and that it might not be anything more than a premature accusation, which is completely the opposite of what the majority of historians around the world say. This includes the man who invented the concept of genocide, as well as the International Association of Genocide Scholars, as well as many other internationally-renown institutions.


     It would be no different if we banned discussion of the Jewish Holocaust, and made a blacklist where the event was written in quotes, all because a few holocaust deniers cannot control their fingers.

Originally posted by Seko Now a counter arguement could very well be represented from someone else's post. Then this discussion would be spiraling onward, which at the end of the day, will be a long winded thread that proves both sides had alot to say.

     Yes, but the counter-arguments are not based on anything that has been agreed upon by academia, in fact they say the complete opposite of what has been agreed upon by every major academic circle. Thats my whole point. Just because someone presents a view that is the complete opposite of what every historical circle says doesn't mean that it has to be represented as a possible fact. As I said, you don't see the viewpoint of Jewish Holocaust deniers represented on a history website by putting the name of the event in quotations, so how is this any different?

Originally posted by Seko Both the term genocide and indications of it being alleged are represented in "Armenian Genocide"

     Its not being "alleged" by anybody. The man who invented the term genocide said that what happened to the Armenians was a fundamental example of genocide. If you do not accept his basic examples of genocide, then by default, you are denying his definition of genocide, which is adopted by every single institution that has to do with international law, including the United Nations. By this rationale, we can openly question whether the Jewish Holocaust took place, contrary to what every academic institutions says, all because some loud neo-Nazis and political opportunists have a different point of view from the world. Do you see the problem here?

Edited by ArmenianSurvival - 21-Sep-2007 at 20:21

Originally posted by Seko That was decided over one year ago. The debates over Mexican/American walls and congress' wrangling over illegal immigrants caused an uproar among members here. Since this issue is mostly specific to that I will rewrite the blacklist with a qualifier. Otherwise, immigration as a whole to the US will, most likely, not create too much flaming amoung members.

Edited by pinguin - 21-Sep-2007 at 21:45

No, the topic would be closed if you were to solely discuss the "Tortilla" walls.

Edited by Seko - 21-Sep-2007 at 22:03