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Do you believe that Turkey will enter EU |
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Sock Puppet 
Immortal Guard 
Joined: 30-Mar-2006 Location: Reunion Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Do you believe that Turkey will enter EUPosted: 25-Dec-2006 at 05:27 |
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At the moment Europe is in Europe, has European concerns and has a border with Turkey.
If Turkey joins, it is in Europe and the Middle, has European and middle eastern concerns and has a border with Iran, Iraq and Syria.
With this the EU could no-longer maintain a pitiful military in comparison to its wealth, no-longer ignore middle eastern politics and would have to adopt a policy towards its 3 new neighbors.
What a headache.
How stupid does a country have to be, when someone says 'you've got 2 choices, Iraq, Iran and Syria as you neighbors or not as your neighbors?' and the politicians say yes.
Edited by Sock Puppet - 26-Dec-2006 at 03:10 |
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When in Rome do as the Romans do, is not good advice when visiting an Italian public toilet.
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Antioxos
Consul 
Joined: 26-Apr-2006 Location: Hellas Online Status: Offline Posts: 340 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Dec-2006 at 12:00 |
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I agree with you very good comment
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Hellios
Arch Duke 
Joined: 25-Sep-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1933 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Dec-2006 at 12:06 |
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How exactly would saying 'no' make their neighbors stop being neighbors? Edited by Hellios - 25-Dec-2006 at 12:07 |
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Spartakus
Tsar 
terörist Joined: 22-Nov-2004 Location: Greece/Hellas Online Status: Offline Posts: 4489 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 25-Dec-2006 at 14:49 |
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Hell yeah,i am not learning Turkish for nothing!
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
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Sock Puppet
Immortal Guard
Joined: 30-Mar-2006 Location: Reunion Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 03:11 |
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If EU politicos say 'no' to Turkey joining they don't get 3 undesirable neighbors.
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When in Rome do as the Romans do, is not good advice when visiting an Italian public toilet.
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 03:22 |
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undesirable neighbors.
hmmm, so what is western world doing at middle east? If They dont want to interfere them. I should also say, Turkey is almost zero need against these countries.
Anyway, wanna look world map? how many country do you see between central asia kafkas and europea? It is easy for EU, accept Turkey or russia.
Other wise, no connection too central asia, kafkas. Prefer russia? They are christian and white too.
Turkey need EU for her inner-politics. EU need Turkey for international politics(After all,EU just created problem for Turkey at international politics.)
Just think, who need other more..
Edited by Mortaza - 26-Dec-2006 at 03:25 |
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Guests
Guest 
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Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 09:51 |
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It will try all tactics & trics to get into it.
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Bulldog
Caliph 
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 13:03 |
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The road to the EU is more important than actually joining it for Turkey, it's not going to realistically join today due to lack of EU foresight by some narrow-minded inward looking increasingly paranoid members. However, in 10-15 years if it carries on with these reforms and growth it won't want to join the EU, like the UK it will probobly see it as a hinderance but not cut all ties and use it when necessary.
EU is missing out on alot of opportunities which Britain, Israel and to some extent U.S is capitalising on, in 15-20 years Turkey will be along with Russia an energy-hub transporting it to the West, being a stable, increasingly democratising, secular yet muslim country it would be disasterous for the EU to loose Turkey but the way it's going it has already lost the people and is going the right way to loosing the government aswell. Edited by Bulldog - 26-Dec-2006 at 13:07 |
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
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Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 15:02 |
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Lossing Turkey is a little nonsense. How will Europea lost Turkey?
Like kafkas and middle east, balkan is inside of our interest range. So Turkey interest at Europea would continue. If our interest goes with EU, we will help them. If our interest is against each other, we will be against to EU.
If we enter EU, we will fight inside of EU. If we wont enter EU, We will fight EU with out side of EU.
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Bulldog
Caliph
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 15:14 |
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How? its not nonsense its logic, Turkey is jeopradising national interests because of this idea that it's going to be in the EU. It would be far more logical to build up ties, relations, trade and invest in the Balkans, Middle East, Caucauses, Central Asia, Russia.
Today Turkey has economic incentives to gain from joining the EU, if the EU allowed Turkey entry today it could mould, control and influence alot more. However, in 15-20 years if Turkey carries on its reforms and economic growth and it's not a part of the EU, it won't be too interested in the EU, EU won't have much bargaining tool's and Turkey could become a problem in that it could start calling the shots and making the demands, which would have not been a issue if EU had made Turkey a member in this era. |
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 15:27 |
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Allies? Russia? we are competing with russia about energy politics. (And thanks God, EU and USA is at our side.)
Balkans is already lost to EU, every country want to enter EU. Our only hope is stupidy of EU. Most probably, They will not accept macedonia, albania, serbia and Bosna.(Or I hope.)
Our relation with middle east? It is almost zero. we just ignore middle east. It is sad but reality. We cannot delete 100 years of ignorence at one day.
Central asia is under Russia hegomony and at Caucauses, we are competing with russia and iran.
can we change our allience? Yeah we can change, russia and iran would accept us, but what is our benefit?
I should also add, Turkey wont want anything from EU. (except money.)
EU will want a lot thing from Turkey. As I said before, even If we are in the EU, We will refuse If their wishes are against our interest.(Just look at Cyprus politics.)
Maybe EU can tame us,So we can accept some EU wish that does harm as a little but I dont think so.
Of course, in long term, allience can change. But in short term,(20-30 year) EU will not lost Turkey.
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Hellios
Arch Duke
Joined: 25-Sep-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1933 |
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Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 16:01 |
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The hopes expressed by Bulldog seem more constructive.
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Bulldog
Caliph
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 26-Dec-2006 at 16:43 |
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Mortaza
Allies? Russia? we are competing with russia about energy politics. (And thanks God, EU and USA is at our side.) You have a very linear view of geo-pollitcs/strategy. Russia is a major target for the growing Turkish business sector, they are investing, setting up trade links and trading. Russia have a number of plans, Russian Nationalist, or better relations with neighbours, or even wilder one's like Slavic-Turkic economic partnership's Nothing is black and white, to get a better outlook thinking in multicolour would be better advised you get to look at every issue in more depth. EU and U.S arn't best of buddies, UK and U.S have great relations but Western and Middle Europe? Its in U.S interests to support Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia also the Central Asian Turkic states as a counter-weight against percieved Russian ambitions, just like it is to support Kurdish aspirations in Iran to cause Iran problems. It boils down to interests. Mortaza Balkans is already lost to EU, every country want to enter EU. Our only hope is stupidy of EU. Most probably, They will not accept macedonia, albania, serbia and Bosna.(Or I hope.) What do you mean? lost? game over? its not a video game and the Balkan countries will do what's in their interests unless some have puppet rulers. Balkan state's need to co-operate with each other. If you follow Turkish enterprise you should know that they invest alot in the Balkans, especially Albania, Romania, Bosnia, Moldova. Recently Greek and Turkish businesses have been co-operating more and both are benefiting. Its not in Turkey or Greece's interests to have bad relations with each other, neither benefits, sure maybe some short term pollitical goals but in the long term? both loose, why? it bottles down to economics, the two are neighbours and together control the Aegean, if they worked together instead of against each other they could both capitilise on what they have. Only one's who benefit from Greek-Turk problems is Weapon's Dealers, the EU using Greeks as a pollitical tool and people who don't want the area to prosper. Our relation with middle east? It is almost zero. we just ignore middle east. It is sad but reality. We cannot delete 100 years of ignorence at one day. I stated that Turkey should boost relations in the middle-east, this government seems to be doing so, plus it has some pretty big deals with Israel. Central asia is under Russia hegomony and at Caucauses, we are competing with russia and iran. When's the last time you visited Central Asia? it really depends where you go but it's a key area for building strong relations. Pipelines will seal the Caucauses, its not just B-T-C, there are many pipelines now which have been agreed on. can we change our allience? Yeah we can change, russia and iran would accept us, but what is our benefit? Think Global, were living in a ever shrinking world, there is Pakistan, India, South East Asia, Latin America, North America, Africa etc you can invest where-ever you like, whichever has the best returns. You shouldn't be Fixated with thinking EU is the only option in the world. |
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 09:01 |
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You have a very linear view of geo-pollitcs/strategy. Russia is a major target for the growing Turkish business sector, they are investing, setting up trade links and trading. Russia have a number of plans, Russian Nationalist, or better relations with neighbours, or even wilder one's like Slavic-Turkic economic partnership's
Trusting russia for trade? I trust greece much. Russian mentality will use their trade power against us. I should also add, russia is a small market with compared EU.
Slavic turkic partnership? Yes,wild dreams.
EU and U.S arn't best of buddies, UK and U.S have great relations but Western and Middle Europe?
Not so much bad, specially germany is pro-usa. If you ask me, except france, there is not a major objection to USA. I should add, france is not one of big powers.
Its in U.S interests to support Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia also the Central Asian Turkic states as a counter-weight against percieved Russian ambitions, just like it is to support Kurdish aspirations in Iran to cause Iran problems.
Yep, but most of USA support benefit Turkey. Infact I dont see any reason to switch our allience. Russia(Just look at what they are doing ROA) treat their allies worse than USA.
What do you mean? lost? game over? its not a video game and the Balkan countries will do what's in their interests unless some have puppet rulers.
And their interest lie at EU. do you know any balkan country who dont want EU? For short term, EU is biggest power at balkan.
Balkan state's need to co-operate with each other.
yeah, just tell them this.
the EU using Greeks as a pollitical tool and people who don't want the area to prosper.
are you naive or blind? It is greeks who are using EU. EU did not created problem between greece and Turkey. greece and ROC created problem between EU and Turkey. Be realist.
You are like polyanna. Friendly russia, friendly greece, friendly balcan states, friendly iran, friendly middle east. This does not make much sense.
Sorry, USA, UK or Western EU is absolutely less dangerous than, Russia,iran, greece or some of middle east or balcan countries.
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Jagatai Khan
Chieftain 
Jeune Turc Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1270 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 09:27 |
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Trusting russia for trade? I trust greece much. Russian mentality
will use their trade power against us. I should also add, russia is a
small market with compared EU.
Slavic turkic partnership? Yes,wild dreams.
We trust already.Look at Turkish construction companies and gas. Turkey today has almost all its foreign relations with EU.For what?We always complain about Armenian diaspora.What about Turkish people(not all Turks) on earth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_diaspora Murtaza I agree with you about EU, but -know your support on akp- it is AKP government's Turkey who behaves as a needy third world country instead of using its potential. (btw -of course this "needy politics" hava a past, not only akp is guilty.) Edited by Jagatai Khan - 27-Dec-2006 at 09:29 |
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Bulldog
Caliph
Joined: 17-May-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 10:41 |
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AKP leader's are very smart and I think they deserve a little credit, they successfully shifted mainstream Turkish opinion against the EU. The way they did this was by going ahead, doing all the reforms which EU didn't expect, even making concessions on Cyprus. But what they proved is that, what-ever happens Turkey will not be accepted into the EU, it opened people's eyes. Plus the closer Turkey gets the more wild and ridiculous the reasons for not letting her in get, they see countries like France getting desperate and messing about making pollitics out of history. There told Turkey has a different "culture", well what about Greece, Spain, Sweeden their poles apart culturally. Basically what is happening is that public opinion of EU keeps getting lower and lower so people want alternatives and so does the state need them. So we see Turkey slowly bridging ties in the middle-east, Turkish companies are in Eastern Europe, Russia, this AKP government ironically has done more for Turkic states pollitical and economic union then previous even more so-called Nationalist government's. It arranged the 10th Turkic summit, has made many deals and these summit's have new life. Personally I think that Mr Gul is very smart and incredibly sneeky I wonder what he's plotting next
 In last couple of years Turkey has move forward rapidly, it lifted death penalty, improved human rights, improved economy, scored a goal against EU and Cyprus in international polltics.I'm no fan of AKP but that Gul is a clever dude and works in Turkey's interests more than the current opposition who just made a mess of things.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine |
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Semis of Arierep
Immortal Guard
Joined: 13-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 08:21 |
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The thing about Turkey in my point of view is the fallowing:
-First the Turks are not part of Europe they only have Constantinople. And this presents a new discution: where the borders of Europe stop.
-Second they allow the death penalty.
-Third the muslim radicals are growing inside Turkey.
-Fourth this present a serious menace to the stability of Europe.
-Last i defend the fallowing they can have a special relation with Europe with some diferences, like in trade or education perhaps.
-Ah i forget the question of Cyprus
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bg_turk
Sultan 
Joined: 28-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2347 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 09:19 |
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You are clearly misinformed on many of your points.
Cyprus is also in Asia and in fact lies to the east and south of majority of the Turks. The geographic argument does not really cut.
Wrong.
Turkey already has a special relationship with Europe through the free trade agreement. |
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Dan Carkner
Baron 
Joined: 07-Nov-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 490 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 09:24 |
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Third the muslim radicals are growing inside Turkey.
"Muslim radicals" are already in every European country, it's this anti-integration policy that helps grow their numbers. |
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Dan Carkner
Baron
Joined: 07-Nov-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 490 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 09:25 |
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Besides I don't hear anyone using the geographic argument about Turkey being in NATO. Last I checked it was more in Europe than it was in the "North Atlantic"..
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