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Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?

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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
    Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 03:50
I came across this gem of an article in the haaretz paper and unfourtunatlty while hanging onto it the Haaretz link was no longer valid. I serached for a copy and found it and decided to post it just incase that links goes aswell.

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization

By Bradley Burston, 21 August 21, 2006, Haaretz

In the 1960s, when a computer in the home, a telephone in the pocket, and a television satellite in orbit were the outlandish stuff of cartoon fantasy, defense industries in the United States were hard at work preparing for the electronic battlefield of the 21st Century.

Sure enough, the real electronic battlefield of the 21st Century would prove to be the collective subconscious: the war for public opinion fought live via cell phones and satellite television and home computers - even when home is a camel-hair Bedouin tent.

The Lebanon war just past was a new model of warfare, just as the Hezbollah/Hamas model is a new model of governance.

The war was one of the first in history in which both sides began the war by concentrating their fire on the enemy's home front.

It was the first in history in which a force of irregulars fired thousands and thousands of surface-to-surface missiles into civilian areas deep within a sovereign nation, as many as 250 a day.

Predictably, in the electronic struggle for hearts and minds, there is no overlap between the way Hezbollah is pictured in Israel and in the Muslim world.

In Israeli media, even in ostensibly left-leaning outlets, Hezbollah men are with rare exceptions referred to as M'chablim, or terrorists. Hezbollah and Hamas are routinely described as Islamic terrorist organizations bent on Israel's destruction, just as they always have been and which the Knee-Jerk Right insists they always must be.

In much of the foreign media in particular among the acrobatic apologists of the Lawrence of Arabia Left Hezbollah is identified variously as a guerrilla organization, a group of farmer-by-day resistance fighters, a political party and coalition partner in the ruling Lebanese cabinet, or a vast and vital social welfare network for the poorest of Lebanon's citizens.

All of this is true, and the terrorism as well. That is precisely the problem with the facile label. Hezbollah is all of these at once, and thus, no single one of these labels is accurate.

We don't know what to call them, because we don't really know what they are.

Because we dismissed them as terrorists, we didn't know how to fight them.

And because we didn't know how to fight them, we used sledgehammers instead of scalpels in areas where hundreds of thousands of Lebanese civilians lived.

And because we so entirely dismissed them, we helped Al Jazeera and much of the caricature-driven media of the cable-satellite West, transform them from killers to giant-killers.

This is the new model, the agent of the truly New Middle East, so new that we don't even have a workable name for it.

Just as Israel would do well to look with fresh eyes and new candor at itself in the light of the war, we would do well to try to divine what this creature called Hezbollah really is.

It is the world's best-armed and most dangerous NGO, a relief agency that does everything it can to kill maximum numbers of innocents across the border. It is the Corleone model of humanitarian aid work, winning gratitude and fealty with family packs of $12,000 in freshly wrapped currency.

It is our enemy. We don't know how to fight it. Not yet.

Does it want to destroy Israel? Of course it does. Did its rockets kill Israelis civilians indiscriminately, among them Arab citizens of the state? Did its apologists insists that the targets of its 3,700 rockets were really army bases? Of course they did.

Is it a terrorist organization? No. Not because it doesn't engage in terror, but because its real power in the world of radical Islam, Israel-hate and America-hate, comes from this new model of the Islamic super-state.

For the first time since Islam lost Spain, radical Islamists have begun to believe that the caliphate can be restored, that the empire of Allah can overcome and eventually supplant the West.

And we are helping them. By dismissing them as terrorists, and by playing directly into their hands, by undermining governments, like that of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, that actually want to see peace come between our peoples, before radical Islam rings down a curtain on all of us.

If the Israeli and Jewish fossil right are to be believed, all this talk about peace is self-destructive. All that matters is to hang onto all the land we have, and blast away at everything that moves across the border. To Finish the Job.

If the right are to be believed, all the Arabs want to see Israel dead, and despotic Islamic regimes reign supreme. If the fossil right is to be believed, then, there's no hope for any of us. If what we are facing 200 million terrorists, as the fossil right would have us believe, there's no hope for the right, either.

There is another possibility, of course. That is, that something about terrorists changes over time when they actually are faced with the real challenges of governance. When they are faced with actual constituents, with diverse needs and diverse belief systems, and little real taste for the iron fist and the religion of rifles and explosives.

It is too convenient for many of us, rightists here and abroad, to dismiss the Arabs as terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.

It is too convenient for many of us to decide that nothing changes, that they will all hate us until we are dead and/or gone.

The challenge now is to find the strength to believe that we, in fact, have a future with the people who live across the line.

The challenge we face is to respect our enemies enough to know how to hang onto what is ours. To be strong enough to fight them when they come to kill us. But to be strong enough, as well, to remain open to those who want to find a way to live and let us live as well.

In the end, the Lebanese people no more want a Hezbollah state than we want a Kahane state. The Lebanese people are not terrorists.

The label terrorist is much too simple. We love to use it, but it can blind us to the complexities of reality, and the fact that things, and even those we label terrorists, can change over time.

Think, for one brief moment, about Menachem Begin.

link

What impressed me the most, is that this doesnt defend hezbollah or rely on value judgements. It describes, the shortcomings of such labels as "terrorists". This is a more of a derogative statment that limits the labeler rather than the labelled.

Comments on this article would be most welcome.Big smile

Only isreal and most of the A-Team (anglophone countries) recognise it as such, with britain only its military wing.

Did their veiws help hezbollah in the war, or impeded isreal's ability to wage war as this article suggests?


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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 12:11
I wrote a long answer to this, but it got zapped :(

Short version: Yes, it was time for conservatives to shed their good-guys vs. bad-guys mentality and look at the problems of the Middle East with:

a) An understanding that things are complexed
b) Respect towards the issues that create the support for terrorist groups in the first place
c) A disposition to negotiate solutions with other people


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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 16:46
HEZBOLLAH are terrorists. blow em up
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 16:57
I think you are watching too much O'Reilly's show. 
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  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:34
No, bg turk, he is actually practicing his comedy routine. He is pulling a Colbert: being a caricature of a right-wing talk show host.

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:45
you still remember that? I havent even been thinking about that for a while. in all seriousness, the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands, they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror." They are terrorists thru and thru and they are not only a threat to Israel, but a continuing road block for middle east peace
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  Quote bleda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:49
 i agree with ponce
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  Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:01
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands,

Do they kidnap civilians or soldiers??

they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror."

Same applies for USA and Israel. Difference is, the latter do it in a much greater scale and nobody dares do anything against them.
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:11
I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah. But I agree with both Hugoestr and Neoptolemos. Terrorists to some may be freedom fighters to others. The distinction between good guys and bad guys is actually never that clear as Ponce and some others would like to believe. Both the United States and Israel kidnap people and kill innocent civilians, the two "criteria" that Ponce sees for one to be called terrorists. So why are they not terrorists in Ponce's eyes? I know I know, there is always a "yes but" explanation. But that "yes but" should apply to everyone, shouldn't it? So why do only Israel and the United States have the privilege of the "yes but" defence and not the Hezbollah?
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:22

I cannot blame americans, i blame their media. Watch FOX and you always here

Hezbollah kidnaps, whereas Israel arrests
Hezbollah attacks, whereas Israel retaliates
Hezbollah kills, whereas Israel liquidates operatives
 
Words are chosen in such a was as to project Israel in a positive light as the good state, whereas Hezbollah is portrayed as an evil terror group.
 
But it is important to remember that Hezbollah has killed far less civilians than Israel has, and that Hezbollah kidnapped only few soldiers as opposed to hundreds of Palestinian civilians in Israeli prisons.
 
It is also important to remember that Israel is the only nucler power in the Middle East.


Edited by bg_turk - 01-Nov-2006 at 20:27
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 00:26
Originally posted by flyingzone

I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah. But I agree with both Hugoestr and Neoptolemos. Terrorists to some may be freedom fighters to others. The distinction between good guys and bad guys is actually never that clear as Ponce and some others would like to believe. Both the United States and Israel kidnap people and kill innocent civilians, the two "criteria" that Ponce sees for one to be called terrorists. So why are they not terrorists in Ponce's eyes? I know I know, there is always a "yes but" explanation. But that "yes but" should apply to everyone, shouldn't it? So why do only Israel and the United States have the privilege of the "yes but" defence and not the Hezbollah?


What i am hearing right now, is you saying that hezbollah is innocent and that they are pure and innocent and that Israel is the one doing all the wrong. You say that Israel and the US may have killed innocent civilians but only because it was a mistake. Hezbollah on the other hand have killed innocents on purpose. You also have to admit that each time an innocent Lebanese dies a smile goes on a hezbo's face because that will make the israeli's look worse, but of course wen an israeli dies it doesnt get too much sympathy from the media.
    
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 01:12
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

you still remember that? I havent even been thinking about that for a while. in all seriousness, the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands, they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror." They are terrorists thru and thru and they are not only a threat to Israel, but a continuing road block for middle east peace
 
Being a Robin Hood does not make you any less of an outlaw. A terrorist still remains a terorist, by definition. Hisbolla can't be compared with states like Israel & US. Their actions are a reaction to the terrorism of Hizbolla.
 
 
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  Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 01:56
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

What i am hearing right now, is you saying that hezbollah is innocent and that they are pure and innocent and that Israel is the one doing all the wrong.
Flyingzone never said that hezbollah is pure and innocent. On the contrary he wrote: " I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah". Stop seeing the world as black and white; the logic "if you're not with us you are with them" is false!

You say that Israel and the US may have killed innocent civilians but only because it was a mistake. Hezbollah on the other hand have killed innocents on purpose.
Hezbollah kills innocents on purpose, while US&Israel does so by mistake... please! When you throw bombs left and right, in a city, innocent people will die, innocent people will get injured, innocent people will have their homes destroyed. Not by mistake, but by definition!

You also have to admit that each time an innocent Lebanese dies a smile goes on a hezbo's face because that will make the israeli's look worse,
One could argue the other way around; e.g. Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers or throws rockets -> Israel is happy because they have a justification to attack Lebanon.

but of course wen an israeli dies it doesnt get too much sympathy from the media.
I'm sure you don't mean the US media, where the opposite is true.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 05:52
Originally posted by Neoptolemos


Hezbollah kills innocents on purpose, while US&Israel does so by mistake... please! When you throw bombs left and right, in a city, innocent people will die, innocent people will get injured, innocent people will have their homes destroyed. Not by mistake, but by definition!
These civilians are Passive terrorists who are the real power of the Hizbolla. They finance, hide & form the Hizbolla. hizbolla is not a progfessional army. It is a group of "Civilians by day, terrorists by night " organisation.
 
One could argue the other way around; e.g. Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers or throws rockets -> Israel is happy because they have a justification to attack Lebanon.
Israel does not need kidnapping to expand it's support base, the Hizbolla like all terrorists everywhere else does. The more deaths, more peole get therio family members killed & join Hizbolla, it's the same old terrorist vicious cycle repeated. 
 

I'm sure you don't mean the US media, where the opposite is true.
 
No he is talking about the arab / muslim media, where their whole world was startled at the death of 500 or so pelestininans / lebanese.  How musch did they react to the deaths of the holocaust, or the twin tower bombings ?
 
During the same time a series of serial bomb explosions organised by muslim terrorists killed around a thousand Indians in Bombay. How many tears were shed by the muslim media for that. the no. of dead here was double the no. of pelestinians killed.

 

If you laugh when others die, the others would also do the same. The perpetrators of terrorism are surely going to get it back in some form or the other.
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:40
Hezbollah is a paramilitary ,religious extremist organization from Lebanon.Although ,they fought against another terrorist,Israel,they are still terrorists.Just like the Red Army.Although they fought Hilter and Nazism,they were still a Communistic Army.
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  Quote QueenCleopatra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:46
I know I am going to get eaten aliveDead for this but ( deep breathSmileLOL) like it or not Terrorisim is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Yes I think Hezbollah are terrorists but thats because of the way they're  portrayed in the Western world. To their own people they are probably great patriots or freedom fighters. It depends on who you ask I guess.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:00
These civilians are Passive terrorists who are the real power of the Hizbolla. They finance, hide & form the Hizbolla. hizbolla is not a progfessional army. It is a group of "Civilians by day, terrorists by night " organisation.
 
I am really curious how they decide, who is passive terrorist, who is not.
 
Also I am realy curious how  can a child less then one year  old becomes passive terrorist.
 
 
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:03
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

I know I am going to get eaten aliveDead for this but ( deep breathSmileLOL) like it or not Terrorisim is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Yes I think Hezbollah are terrorists but thats because of the way they're  portrayed in the Western world. To their own people they are probably great patriots or freedom fighters. It depends on who you ask I guess.
 
If launch missiles against civilians,then you are a terrorist,no matter what society you are in.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:03
You are right Queen, but then robin Hood was also a hero for his admirers, still remained an outlaw.
 
Osama is another great popular figure, also known as a Liberator, to his admirers,
 
 
The classification is not based on the popularity, it is in the tricks & tactics used, which makes Them terrorists. 
 
And it is the same majority of "their people" (the arab / Muslim world ) who shed tears for them but refuse to support them.
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:06
Originally posted by Spartakus

If launch missiles against civilians,then you are a terrorist,no matter what society you are in.
 
If not launch misslie against civilians then against whom to launch ? When the launcher of the rocket appears from a bedroom & disappears into  a kitchen, where do you look for the enemy soldier ?
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