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Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
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Topic: Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
Posted By: Leonidas
Subject: Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 03:50
I came across this gem of an article in the haaretz paper and unfourtunatlty while hanging onto it the Haaretz link was no longer valid. I serached for a copy and found it and decided to post it just incase that links goes aswell.

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization

By Bradley Burston, 21 August 21, 2006, Haaretz

In the 1960s, when a computer in the home, a telephone in the pocket, and a television satellite in orbit were the outlandish stuff of cartoon fantasy, defense industries in the United States were hard at work preparing for the electronic battlefield of the 21st Century.

Sure enough, the real electronic battlefield of the 21st Century would prove to be the collective subconscious: the war for public opinion fought live via cell phones and satellite television and home computers - even when home is a camel-hair Bedouin tent.

The Lebanon war just past was a new model of warfare, just as the Hezbollah/Hamas model is a new model of governance.

The war was one of the first in history in which both sides began the war by concentrating their fire on the enemy's home front.

It was the first in history in which a force of irregulars fired thousands and thousands of surface-to-surface missiles into civilian areas deep within a sovereign nation, as many as 250 a day.

Predictably, in the electronic struggle for hearts and minds, there is no overlap between the way Hezbollah is pictured in Israel and in the Muslim world.

In Israeli media, even in ostensibly left-leaning outlets, Hezbollah men are with rare exceptions referred to as M'chablim, or terrorists. Hezbollah and Hamas are routinely described as Islamic terrorist organizations bent on Israel's destruction, just as they always have been — and which the Knee-Jerk Right insists they always must be.

In much of the foreign media — in particular among the acrobatic apologists of the Lawrence of Arabia Left — Hezbollah is identified variously as a guerrilla organization, a group of farmer-by-day resistance fighters, a political party and coalition partner in the ruling Lebanese cabinet, or a vast and vital social welfare network for the poorest of Lebanon's citizens.

All of this is true, and the terrorism as well. That is precisely the problem with the facile label. Hezbollah is all of these at once, and thus, no single one of these labels is accurate.

We don't know what to call them, because we don't really know what they are.

Because we dismissed them as terrorists, we didn't know how to fight them.

And because we didn't know how to fight them, we used sledgehammers instead of scalpels in areas where hundreds of thousands of Lebanese civilians lived.

And because we so entirely dismissed them, we helped Al Jazeera and much of the caricature-driven media of the cable-satellite West, transform them from killers to giant-killers.

This is the new model, the agent of the truly New Middle East, so new that we don't even have a workable name for it.

Just as Israel would do well to look with fresh eyes and new candor at itself in the light of the war, we would do well to try to divine what this creature called Hezbollah really is.

It is the world's best-armed and most dangerous NGO, a relief agency that does everything it can to kill maximum numbers of innocents across the border. It is the Corleone model of humanitarian aid work, winning gratitude and fealty with family packs of $12,000 in freshly wrapped currency.

It is our enemy. We don't know how to fight it. Not yet.

Does it want to destroy Israel? Of course it does. Did its rockets kill Israelis civilians indiscriminately, among them Arab citizens of the state? Did its apologists insists that the targets of its 3,700 rockets were really army bases? Of course they did.

Is it a terrorist organization? No. Not because it doesn't engage in terror, but because its real power in the world of radical Islam, Israel-hate and America-hate, comes from this new model of the Islamic super-state.

For the first time since Islam lost Spain, radical Islamists have begun to believe that the caliphate can be restored, that the empire of Allah can overcome and eventually supplant the West.

And we are helping them. By dismissing them as terrorists, and by playing directly into their hands, by undermining governments, like that of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, that actually want to see peace come between our peoples, before radical Islam rings down a curtain on all of us.

If the Israeli and Jewish fossil right are to be believed, all this talk about peace is self-destructive. All that matters is to hang onto all the land we have, and blast away at everything that moves across the border. To Finish the Job.

If the right are to be believed, all the Arabs want to see Israel dead, and despotic Islamic regimes reign supreme. If the fossil right is to be believed, then, there's no hope for any of us. If what we are facing 200 million terrorists, as the fossil right would have us believe, there's no hope for the right, either.

There is another possibility, of course. That is, that something about terrorists changes over time when they actually are faced with the real challenges of governance. When they are faced with actual constituents, with diverse needs and diverse belief systems, and little real taste for the iron fist and the religion of rifles and explosives.

It is too convenient for many of us, rightists here and abroad, to dismiss the Arabs as terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.

It is too convenient for many of us to decide that nothing changes, that they will all hate us until we are dead and/or gone.

The challenge now is to find the strength to believe that we, in fact, have a future with the people who live across the line.

The challenge we face is to respect our enemies enough to know how to hang onto what is ours. To be strong enough to fight them when they come to kill us. But to be strong enough, as well, to remain open to those who want to find a way to live and let us live as well.

In the end, the Lebanese people no more want a Hezbollah state than we want a Kahane state. The Lebanese people are not terrorists.

The label terrorist is much too simple. We love to use it, but it can blind us to the complexities of reality, and the fact that things, and even those we label terrorists, can change over time.

Think, for one brief moment, about Menachem Begin.

http://www.dedefensa.org/choix.php?comm=1&link_id=6744 -

Comments on this article would be most welcome.Big smile

Only isreal and most of the A-Team (anglophone countries) recognise it as such, with britain only its military wing.

Did their veiws help hezbollah in the war, or impeded isreal's ability to wage war as this article suggests?




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Replies:
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 12:11
I wrote a long answer to this, but it got zapped :(

Short version: Yes, it was time for conservatives to shed their good-guys vs. bad-guys mentality and look at the problems of the Middle East with:

a) An understanding that things are complexed
b) Respect towards the issues that create the support for terrorist groups in the first place
c) A disposition to negotiate solutions with other people




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Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 16:46
HEZBOLLAH are terrorists. blow em up

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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 16:57
I think you are watching too much O'Reilly's show. 

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http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com


Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:34
No, bg turk, he is actually practicing his comedy routine. He is pulling a Colbert: being a caricature of a right-wing talk show host.



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Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:45
you still remember that? I havent even been thinking about that for a while. in all seriousness, the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands, they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror." They are terrorists thru and thru and they are not only a threat to Israel, but a continuing road block for middle east peace

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Posted By: bleda
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:49
 i agree with ponce

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Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:01
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands,

Do they kidnap civilians or soldiers??

they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror."

Same applies for USA and Israel. Difference is, the latter do it in a much greater scale and nobody dares do anything against them.


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Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:11
I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah. But I agree with both Hugoestr and Neoptolemos. Terrorists to some may be freedom fighters to others. The distinction between good guys and bad guys is actually never that clear as Ponce and some others would like to believe. Both the United States and Israel kidnap people and kill innocent civilians, the two "criteria" that Ponce sees for one to be called terrorists. So why are they not terrorists in Ponce's eyes? I know I know, there is always a "yes but" explanation. But that "yes but" should apply to everyone, shouldn't it? So why do only Israel and the United States have the privilege of the "yes but" defence and not the Hezbollah?

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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 20:22

I cannot blame americans, i blame their media. Watch FOX and you always here

Hezbollah kidnaps, whereas Israel arrests
Hezbollah attacks, whereas Israel retaliates
Hezbollah kills, whereas Israel liquidates operatives
 
Words are chosen in such a was as to project Israel in a positive light as the good state, whereas Hezbollah is portrayed as an evil terror group.
 
But it is important to remember that Hezbollah has killed far less civilians than Israel has, and that Hezbollah kidnapped only few soldiers as opposed to hundreds of Palestinian civilians in Israeli prisons.
 
It is also important to remember that Israel is the only nucler power in the Middle East.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf39qkvwOhU - http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yf39qkvwOhU


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http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com


Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 00:26
Originally posted by flyingzone

I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah. But I agree with both Hugoestr and Neoptolemos. Terrorists to some may be freedom fighters to others. The distinction between good guys and bad guys is actually never that clear as Ponce and some others would like to believe. Both the United States and Israel kidnap people and kill innocent civilians, the two "criteria" that Ponce sees for one to be called terrorists. So why are they not terrorists in Ponce's eyes? I know I know, there is always a "yes but" explanation. But that "yes but" should apply to everyone, shouldn't it? So why do only Israel and the United States have the privilege of the "yes but" defence and not the Hezbollah?


What i am hearing right now, is you saying that hezbollah is innocent and that they are pure and innocent and that Israel is the one doing all the wrong. You say that Israel and the US may have killed innocent civilians but only because it was a mistake. Hezbollah on the other hand have killed innocents on purpose. You also have to admit that each time an innocent Lebanese dies a smile goes on a hezbo's face because that will make the israeli's look worse, but of course wen an israeli dies it doesnt get too much sympathy from the media.
    

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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 01:12
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

you still remember that? I havent even been thinking about that for a while. in all seriousness, the hezbo's really are terrorists because they kidnap people in order to meet their demands, they do kill innocent civilians in order to spread their message although the main function of that is "terror." They are terrorists thru and thru and they are not only a threat to Israel, but a continuing road block for middle east peace
 
Being a Robin Hood does not make you any less of an outlaw. A terrorist still remains a terorist, by definition. Hisbolla can't be compared with states like Israel & US. Their actions are a reaction to the terrorism of Hizbolla.
 
 


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 01:56
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

What i am hearing right now, is you saying that hezbollah is innocent and that they are pure and innocent and that Israel is the one doing all the wrong.
Flyingzone never said that hezbollah is pure and innocent. On the contrary he wrote: " I definitely do not condone the many tactics employed by the Hezbollah". Stop seeing the world as black and white; the logic "if you're not with us you are with them" is false!

You say that Israel and the US may have killed innocent civilians but only because it was a mistake. Hezbollah on the other hand have killed innocents on purpose.
Hezbollah kills innocents on purpose, while US&Israel does so by mistake... please! When you throw bombs left and right, in a city, innocent people will die, innocent people will get injured, innocent people will have their homes destroyed. Not by mistake, but by definition!

You also have to admit that each time an innocent Lebanese dies a smile goes on a hezbo's face because that will make the israeli's look worse,
One could argue the other way around; e.g. Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers or throws rockets -> Israel is happy because they have a justification to attack Lebanon.

but of course wen an israeli dies it doesnt get too much sympathy from the media.
I'm sure you don't mean the US media, where the opposite is true.


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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 05:52
Originally posted by Neoptolemos


Hezbollah kills innocents on purpose, while US&Israel does so by mistake... please! When you throw bombs left and right, in a city, innocent people will die, innocent people will get injured, innocent people will have their homes destroyed. Not by mistake, but by definition!
These civilians are Passive terrorists who are the real power of the Hizbolla. They finance, hide & form the Hizbolla. hizbolla is not a progfessional army. It is a group of "Civilians by day, terrorists by night " organisation.
 
One could argue the other way around; e.g. Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers or throws rockets -> Israel is happy because they have a justification to attack Lebanon.
Israel does not need kidnapping to expand it's support base, the Hizbolla like all terrorists everywhere else does. The more deaths, more peole get therio family members killed & join Hizbolla, it's the same old terrorist vicious cycle repeated. 
 

I'm sure you don't mean the US media, where the opposite is true.
 
No he is talking about the arab / muslim media, where their whole world was startled at the death of 500 or so pelestininans / lebanese.  How musch did they react to the deaths of the holocaust, or the twin tower bombings ?
 
During the same time a series of serial bomb explosions organised by muslim terrorists killed around a thousand Indians in Bombay. How many tears were shed by the muslim media for that. the no. of dead here was double the no. of pelestinians killed.

 

If you laugh when others die, the others would also do the same. The perpetrators of terrorism are surely going to get it back in some form or the other.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:40
Hezbollah is a paramilitary ,religious extremist organization from Lebanon.Although ,they fought against another terrorist,Israel,they are still terrorists.Just like the Red Army.Although they fought Hilter and Nazism,they were still a Communistic Army.

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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: QueenCleopatra
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:46
I know I am going to get eaten aliveDead for this but ( deep breathSmileLOL) like it or not Terrorisim is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Yes I think Hezbollah are terrorists but thats because of the way they're  portrayed in the Western world. To their own people they are probably great patriots or freedom fighters. It depends on who you ask I guess.


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Her Royal Highness , lady of the Two Lands, High Priestess of Thebes, Beloved of Isis , Cleopatra , Oueen of the Nile


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:00
These civilians are Passive terrorists who are the real power of the Hizbolla. They finance, hide & form the Hizbolla. hizbolla is not a progfessional army. It is a group of "Civilians by day, terrorists by night " organisation.
 
I am really curious how they decide, who is passive terrorist, who is not.
 
Also I am realy curious how  can a child less then one year  old becomes passive terrorist.
 
 


Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:03
Originally posted by QueenCleopatra

I know I am going to get eaten aliveDead for this but ( deep breathSmileLOL) like it or not Terrorisim is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Yes I think Hezbollah are terrorists but thats because of the way they're  portrayed in the Western world. To their own people they are probably great patriots or freedom fighters. It depends on who you ask I guess.
 
If launch missiles against civilians,then you are a terrorist,no matter what society you are in.


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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:03
You are right Queen, but then robin Hood was also a hero for his admirers, still remained an outlaw.
 
Osama is another great popular figure, also known as a Liberator, to his admirers,
 
 
The classification is not based on the popularity, it is in the tricks & tactics used, which makes Them terrorists. 
 
And it is the same majority of "their people" (the arab / Muslim world ) who shed tears for them but refuse to support them.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:06
Originally posted by Spartakus

If launch missiles against civilians,then you are a terrorist,no matter what society you are in.
 
If not launch misslie against civilians then against whom to launch ? When the launcher of the rocket appears from a bedroom & disappears into  a kitchen, where do you look for the enemy soldier ?


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:21
Liked the original article, many a true word spoken. To recognise your enemy for what he really is, always helps to defeat him.
In the end, it doesn't really matter if the Hezbollah are terrorists or not. There are far worse things than terrorists.
Religious fundamentalist groups, for example, that attempt to force their specific branch of medieval and intolerant belief on to their own population, trying to eliminate all opposition, trying to export their religious extremism onto their neighbouring countries, express hate for all that don't share the faith.
Doesn't matter if they're Christian, Islamic, Hindu etc.
It's up to you to decide if Hezbollah fits the desription.


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:23
Vivek, lets not confuse hezbollah with other organistions.

 The launching of rockets was retalition for the bombings, they offered to stop if isreal stopped. Isreal decided that it wanted to fight it out, we need to understand that it should be treated as it treats others. The allies seeked out similar retailion agaist the german/japanese cities of WW2, so i cant understand how this gets the 'terrorist' label while others dont. this is completelty subjective

Even though we can moralise about the civilian deaths, all hezbollah did is act as equals, even if its equals in terror. For hezbollah to accept those terrible bombings and take the moral high ground and not retailiate would mean that they also have to act as the weaker of the two. It didnt and i think they answered the isreali well.

Why shouldnt isreal just talk to them and give back the 2,000 or so hostages it kidnaped?




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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:34
It would be ready f they gave up the terrorist ways. everything was going well with the PLO, but Hizbolla wanted to be the true leader.

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 07:52
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Hezbollah on the other hand have killed innocents on purpose
if hezbollah wanted to kill lots of isrealis, a few well placed human/car bombs would of killed allot more people than those pissy rockets. It also would of been cheaper and is well within their capability. The use of those rockets was more of 'we can' and 'we will' when the fight was on, pyschological more than deadly.

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

  You say that Israel and the US may have killed innocent civilians but only because it was a mistake.
When you target an area/building (with questionable intellignece) that is populated with civilians you make the choice to kill them. No one makes Isreal do this, they choose to wage war and pull the trigger. There are choices in how they can handle this and they chose that path by; not talking, not returning lebanese hostages and simply treating lebanon/lebanese with disdain. 

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

You also have to admit that each time an innocent Lebanese dies a smile goes on a hezbo's face because that will make the israeli's look worse, but of course wen an israeli dies it doesnt get too much sympathy from the media.
you have admit you have demonised them in your mind beyond anything close reality. No one cheers for their own dead. these guys are lebanese

Edit:
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

It would be ready f they gave up the terrorist ways. everything was going well with the PLO, but Hizbolla wanted to be the true leader.
what is their terrorist ways?

how are they connected to the PLO?

isreal is negotioting the release of the lebanese hostages, do you know why? becasue it easier  and well, more civilised to talk rather than to fight. dont you agree?


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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 12:21
To whom?To Israeli Army ,of course.
 
Let me clear out for you,
 
war:army vs army
terrorism:army vs unarmed civilians
 
And that's it.The rest are simply details.


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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 13:25
Please read again the opening article.

What the conservative author is saying is that the West makes a mistake by using good vs. evil labels like terrorism.

By calling Hezbollah a terrorist organization, we in the West fail to understand them. And by failing to understand them, the West will either fail in war against them or fail to reach any agreements.

It is very easy to call Hezbollah a terrorist organization that should be bombed. Well, Israel did just that, and failed at destroying it.

Hezbollah's role, if the description of the author is to be believed, is so complex that we don't even have a word to describe such organizations in English. It is a political party, a militia, a charity, and a terrorist organization, at the very least.


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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 15:37
Israeli pollicies are terrorist,no doubt about that.
 
Hezbollah did or did not launched missiles in civilian targets?It did.Therefore,it's actions are purely terroristic.
 
I am so bored to hear that the West fails to understand this and fails to understand that .Just because they are muslims,this does not mean that they came from planet Mars for God's Shake!They are humans in flesh,just everybody in the entire planet.What,the pain of a Muslim mother loosing it's child from Israeli bullet is different from the pain of an Isreali mother that loses her child from a Hezbollah missile or from the pain of a  Vietnamese mother that lost her child from American bombs, or from the pain of a Russian mother that lost her child in the war against the Nazis back in WWII or from the pain of an American mother that lost her child in Iraq or Afganistan from kamikaze attacks?Don't bloody think so.
 
Your conservative author needs to get on the frontlines ,get shot from a bullet and then right about terrorism or not.


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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 16:58
like many of you say, it is all in the eye of the beholder of who is a terrorist and who is not. I for one do not see Israeli policies as acts of terrorism. I see them as acts of self-defense

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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 17:07

BS.Terrorist is the one who attacks or terrorizes unarmed and without any power populations.Goverments,Companies,Organizations,Armies,common people can become terrorists.



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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 17:56
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

like many of you say, it is all in the eye of the beholder of who is a terrorist and who is not. I for one do not see Israeli policies as acts of terrorism. I see them as acts of self-defense
 
Ponce - its not all black and white. Try to see beyond the Bush doctrine "We are the good guys - we go and get them bad guys". Look for reasons.
 
Israel is the agressor in the Middel East and their behavior is the reason and excuse for all modern terrorism, with the first act of terror at the 1972 Olympics in Munich by Palestinian terrorists - just 5 years after Israel occupied Palestine.
They are still occupying Palestine, making the life for the citizens as bad as possible.

They do it for religious reasons, and they CAN do it because the radical Christians and Jews in Washington is lobbying (pays) the politicians to condone it. Do you think this is right?
 
They also slaughtered lots of civilians in Beiruth in Lebanon and they continue to do so.
How can you think these people wont fight back any way they can - just like the Danish freedomfighters who killed occupying German troops during WWII. Were they terrorists too?
 
What we call terrorism is just THE way they CAN fight back - that isnt so hard to understand.
Hezbolla fight as soldiers, not as terrorists.
 
We should never condone terrorism - but neither should we ever condone the acts of Israel.
 


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Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 17:57
Originally posted by Spartakus

Israeli pollicies are terrorist,no doubt about that.


Hezbollah did or did not launched missiles in civilian targets?It did.Therefore,it's actions are purely terroristic.


I am so bored to hear that the West fails to understand this and fails to understand that .Just because they are muslims,this does not mean that they came from planet Mars for God's Shake!They are humans in flesh,just everybody in the entire planet.What,the pain of a Muslim mother loosing it's child from Israeli bullet is different from the pain of an Isreali mother that loses her child from a Hezbollah missile or from the pain of a Vietnamese mother that lost her child from American bombs, or from the pain of a Russian mother that lost her child in the war against the Nazis back in WWII or from the pain of an American mother that lost her child in Iraq or Afganistan from kamikaze attacks?Don't bloody think so.


Your conservative author needs to get on the frontlines ,get shot from a bullet and then right about terrorism or not.


I agree with your statement. But the interesting thing about the conservative author is that he is willing to admit that Hezbollah is more complex than just being "the bad guys."

One cannot negotiate with the "bad guys." One can negotiate with a political party or with an NGO.


I am hopeful that more people will follow his lead, and grant the proper respect to these groups, the Middle East, and Islam, and listen to what they say, and attempt to meet their needs wherever it is possible.



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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 18:08
In a conflict both parties that are involved, have "bad guys".

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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 05:38
fck i just got zapped, there goes a long post.

Ive had difficulty accepting that label in general or more accuartly how it gets thorwon around without much thought, and in particular pidgeon holing hezbollah with that word.

It doesnt do them justice and i dont think those rockets qualify unless you apply that label to every nation in ww2. yet when such labels get used to describe those actions i keep hearing, its not the same because 'thats war' or 'we had to'

So, can terrorist action/s be the definitive measure of this organiation? When isreal or any other country use excess force in war do they simply become a terrorist state, or a state that conducted a terrorist act?






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Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 13:04
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

like many of you say, it is all in the eye of the beholder of who is a terrorist and who is not. I for one do not see Israeli policies as acts of terrorism. I see them as acts of self-defense
 
Read Hasbara


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Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 17:30
Originally posted by Spartakus

In a conflict both parties that are involved, have "bad guys".

    

Well, of course You can't bring yourself to kill people who have children just like yourself. Without dehumanizing the enemy, very few people would be able to commit violence against them.

The hard part is to get out of this vision of conflict and attempt to solve problems in a manner that gives respect to your enemy.

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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 03:09
Originally posted by Spartakus

To whom?To Israeli Army ,of course.
 
Let me clear out for you,
 
war:army vs army
terrorism:army vs unarmed civilians
 
And that's it.The rest are simply details.
 
And what about :
 
Armed civilians hiding behind unarmed civilians vs the army.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 03:35
 
 
One of the main reasons behind hizbolla being labelled as terrorists is that they are muslims. I will share how the images of the two factions reversed in India over a small time period.
 
 
Hizbolla & PLO were very popular in India till a few years ago. Infact I was myself a great fan of both especially Yaseer Arafat & counted myself extremely fortunate in having met him personally, as a part of the Platoon, which gave him one of the standard Military Guard of Honour & later interacted with him, the image of an old charismatic man with a pistol tucked to his side, but still looking very affectionate was very emotional. In those days almost all Indians were dead against Israel.
 
What turned the tide here was the rise of Islamic militancy in India. Whenever a few pelestinians were killed or some Lebanese muslims killed, the Indian muslims would be out on the streets, protesting against the US & Israel, burining their effigies etc.., but when hundreds of hindus would be killed by islamic terrorists in single events, there would be no protest from them, in fact these events would be celebrated & the perpretrators termed by them as Heros of Jihad. 
 
In the last battle between Hizbolla & Israel, about 500 hizbolla people died. The whole of the muslim world, including the indian muslims were up & out on the streets protesting this as ghastardly Act. But at the same time serial bomb explosions in local trains in Bombay & other terror attacks by the islamic terrorists killed around a thousand hindus in India. No voices of protest by indian muslims were heard on the streets against the killing of more than a 1000 hindus, living amongst them, while they were too keen on protesting against the killing of 500 muslims by israel in a land far away. Not to be left at this, the killing of 1000 hindus was secretly celebtrated by them as an act of islamic Jihad. 
 
It was due to continually recurring instances & tendencies like this that the Image of the israelis turned from oppressors to the opressed & Hizbolla came to be increasingly identified as islamic terrorists.


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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 04:25
Armed civilians hiding behind unarmed civilians vs the army

= Propaganda.
Usually you don't try to isolate your support base. If this happened, Hezbullah wouldn't have half the support it does.


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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 06:05
No, this is how the terrorists develop support. Any incident like above will lead to reprisals, which will inadvertantly affect some civilians also. These affected will become the new supporters. Their sufferings would be projected out to enlist more support on the premise of brotherhood. That is how it operates. 

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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 07:02
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Armed civilians hiding behind unarmed civilians vs the army.
how about hezbi fighters using bunkers and tunnels and isreal bombing blind. Read about the war before you make commentary.

hezbi fighters fought like soldiers.


Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

One of the main reasons behind hizbolla being labelled as terrorists is that they are muslims.
OMG your rightClap
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Hizbolla & PLO were very popular in India till a few years ago.
these are unrelated organisations with different support bases, different politics and different tactics. But they are both arab. stop conecteing hezbollah with other organistions unless you can prove a link. Otherwise you show complete ignorance about hezbollah.

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

In the last battle between Hizbolla & Israel, about 500 hizbolla people died. The whole of the muslim world, including the indian muslims were up & out on the streets protesting this as ghastardly Act.
everyone was protesting about the civilian deaths, no one can confirm or quantify the hezbi deaths to this day. But you regard those civilians as 'passive' terrorists and fair game, and dont recognise the injustice those bombings caused. So ovoiusly those protests were pro-hezbollahDead
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

It was due to continually recurring instances & tendencies like this that the Image of the israelis turned from oppressors to the opressed & Hizbolla came to be increasingly identified as islamic terrorists.
If your right then thats because they make the same mistake as you.  hope your wrong here to

BTW this thread  is not about india


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Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 13:53
he knows this is not about India he is just basing his argument on a comparison

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Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 15:37
 
SubjectTopic: Is Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
 
Hezbollah was created as a resistance movement against an illegal and still ongoing occupation, but has since become involved in terrorist acts (like targeting civilians), although not to the extent of the beheaders of Iraq and the suicide bombers of Gaza-WB.
 


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 22:14
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

he knows this is not about India he is just basing his argument on a comparison
well he actually mentioned terrorist attacks in india for that comparison, which is unfair. What pakistani based groups do in india, is not the same as hezbollah in lebanon.

some people rely on other unrelated groups actions to help their arguments.


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