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IrishNation1
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Topic: Armoured Cars. Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:08 |
This is a simple Question really. But I would like to know if anyone knows around what Time Armoured cars started to be used by Couutrys and If possible what Country was the First to use them. I have traced them back to the 1920s But I cant get an exact Date. Than you
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Early this morning I signed my death warrant.
Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921
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Gundamor
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Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:22 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Armoured_Car
This was one of the earlier large production/known amoured cars.To find the so called "first" would be very open to debate I imagine.
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"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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IrishNation1
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Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:24 |
Very Nice. Thank you
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Early this morning I signed my death warrant.
Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921
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jacobtowne
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Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 09:17 |
The earliest AFVs (armored fighting vehicles) in WWI were simply
touring cars fitted with armor and a machine gun. Prior to the Rolls
Royce mentioned above, the Belgians developed the Minerva at the outset
of the war, although the later Rolls was much more sophisticated,
incorporating a naval-designed rotating turret gun. This foreshadowed the
shape of the majority of AFVs to come.
There were armored vehicles long before this, but most were wooden. The
Boers in South Africa used a wagon laager much like the one developed
by John Zizka in the 15th Century, although I assume the original
question concerned metal armor (?).
JT
Edited by jacobtowne - 31-Oct-2006 at 09:18
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IrishNation1
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Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 14:22 |
Not really. All that Information has been Very Helpfull. I meant I nGeneral so no not Just Metal. Thank you a lot
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Early this morning I signed my death warrant.
Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921
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Paul
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Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 17:05 |
Armoured steam powered tractors were used in the Crimean war I believe.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 07:48 |
I also think that in the later stages of the hundred years war, the men of ghent used armoured wagons with firelock hand cannons to protect their land against the forces of the duke of flanders and the flemmings.
...Not sure if that counts though!
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Nick1986
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Posted: 29-Jun-2011 at 16:49 |
Armored cars were first used by the Royal Navy to retrieve downed pilots. These were based on civilian cars like the Lanchester or Austin. In Palestine the British used purpose-built Rolls-Royces fitted with machine gun turrets. Some were fitted with new tyres and extra guns and used by the Indian army in WW2
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 30-Jun-2011 at 10:21 |
Loved Armor cars Nick...especially the military variants and even though the purist would argue that... in effect....that is all the modern Stryker is...a better version.
My favorites just to look at was the legendary M3-M8's.
Personally prefer wheel base to track as the mobilty was just as good and a hell of a lot easy to maintain. Initally they were light in underarmor which can be hell when dealing with mines.....
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Jun-2011 at 10:23
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Nick1986
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Posted: 01-Jul-2011 at 08:26 |
Armored cars proved their worth in the desert. Lawrence of Arabia had nine of them during the Arab uprising
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cavalry4ever
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Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 15:02 |
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis
Loved Armor cars Nick...especially the military variants and even though the purist would argue that... in effect....that is all the modern Stryker is...a better version.
My favorites just to look at was the legendary M3-M8's.
Personally prefer wheel base to track as the mobilty was just as good and a hell of a lot easy to maintain. Initally they were light in underarmor which can be hell when dealing with mines.....
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Modern wheel based cars have better mobility and better mileage as there is less friction than in the tracked vehicles. There is interesting variant of armored vehicles. The first modern mine resisting vehicles (MRAP) were built by South Africa in 1979/80 and was called Casspir. Interesting note about incompetence - US generals were totally unaware of their existence. They reinvented the wheel in 2004, after it became obvious that Humvees were ill adapted to the US Army needs. As Clemenceau said: War is too important to be left to the generals
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 16:09 |
All quite true not to mention the ability to move them via air assets in zone... concerned with load and weight restictions.
I am a connoisseur and user of both......but my druthers remains wheeled....for a lot of reasons. And yes...most of us Armor types followed the developement wordwide with a keen interest. I also knew of the Casspir and yet we ntl carried on with HTLD testing that resulted in a number of platforms none satisfactory, for generic use, until Humvees.
And that with the caveat that it was never intended to be a combat vehicle in the first place but a general transport vehicle in lieu of the old M151A1-3 for personnel and light cargo etc. Buford was.. but it was scrapped for numerous reasons and we ended up eventually with Stryker. As Bradley and the M3 Cav variant (CFV) had already answered the remedy for the M901 ITV within the heavy force (now if memory serves correct only remains as the M981FistV).
Iow. I suspect they (the generals knew all along) knew.
But given RDA caveats and bidding restrictions of the time.... tied with the politics and lobbyists and legal mandates requiring RDA to remain American initially in the process....well you remember the process.
Nothing new there C4E as you no doubt well know.
Always a pleasure to speak with a fellow trooper.
Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 02-Jul-2011 at 16:26
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Cryptic
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Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 20:24 |
Originally posted by IrishNation1
This is a simple Question really. But I would like to know if anyone knows around what Time Armoured cars started to be used by Couutrys and If possible what Country was the First to use them. I have traced them back to the 1920s But I cant get an exact Date. Than you |
The British used improvised armoured cars in August, 1914. The early days of WWI were the last "gentleman's war". More than a few British upper class officers showed up in France with their personal servants and a few also brought their private cars. The cars, a big novelty item to most in 1914, were driven by chauffer / mechanics that were also servants of the owner.
Somebody then realized that machine guns, especially the heavy ones from the sudanese campaign, could be mounted on cars and then quickly driven to trouble spots. Since the war in the Autumn of 1914 was mobile, the improvised armoured cars were very effective.
As a side note, some of the British officers also orgainized private messes as well. Their chefs would buy the best produce and meat that the French country side had to offer. I bet they ate very well . In fairness, to the well fed and well served officers, the fatality rate of great war infantry officers was generally noticably higher than that for ordinary riflemen.
Edited by Cryptic - 02-Jul-2011 at 20:41
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cavalry4ever
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Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 10:33 |
This is interesting picture showing great CASPIR engineering. All parts, except hull are designed to easily blow off and can be as easily replaced.
Great link showing it running over mine:
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"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
Mark Twain
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 10:54 |
And equally imortant in this particular case note the height of the carriage from the ground and width of axel base......if ya worrry about mines this is how ya essentially begin your thinking process and deterrence counters.
I learned that a long ago sitting around listening to the Armor Engineer board guys who were a hell of a lot brighter then me.
I just planned and led and it wasnt until that was done a few times that I remembered the imortance of the RDA guys.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Nick1986
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Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 20:38 |
Some of the Nazis' armored cars look surprisingly modern. The SdKfz 234 had a tank turret, 20mm aircraft cannon, and a hull that wouldn't look out of place on the 21st century battlefield. All four of its front wheels could be steered and its sloped armor was 15mm thick
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opuslola
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Posted: 13-Jul-2011 at 18:20 |
Perhaps this little video will expose you to another candidate?
Edited by cavalry4ever - 27-Jul-2011 at 11:39
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Nick1986
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Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 12:21 |
On the other hand Russia's armored cars looked primitive but were well-protected. The BA-27 and its later derivatives were still in use in 1943. These could be converted into halftracks and captured examples were highly prized by the Nazis and Finns
Edited by Nick1986 - 23-Jul-2011 at 12:21
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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opuslola
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Posted: 25-Jul-2011 at 17:46 |
Nick, did you even watch my video? I thought it was spot on!
Are you able to make it easier for fellow readers to see? I seem to lack the necessary ability to do so?
PS, I surely like your photo above, and agree with your comments!
Regards,
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Nick1986
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Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 11:14 |
Ron, what were the extra wheels for? They look a bit like the wheels of a tank
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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