Armoured Cars.
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Modern History
Forum Discription: World History from 1918 to the 21st century.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15868
Printed Date: 12-May-2024 at 22:00
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Armoured Cars.
Posted By: IrishNation1
Subject: Armoured Cars.
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:08
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This is a simple Question really. But I would like to know if anyone knows around what Time Armoured cars started to be used by Couutrys and If possible what Country was the First to use them. I have traced them back to the 1920s But I cant get an exact Date. Than you ------------- Early this morning I signed my death warrant. Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 |
Replies:
Posted By: Gundamor
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:22
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Armoured_Car - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Armoured_Car
This was one of the earlier large production/known amoured cars.To find the so called "first" would be very open to debate I imagine. ------------- "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" |
Posted By: IrishNation1
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 17:24
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Very Nice. Thank you ------------- Early this morning I signed my death warrant. Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 |
Posted By: jacobtowne
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 09:17
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The earliest AFVs (armored fighting vehicles) in WWI were simply
touring cars fitted with armor and a machine gun. Prior to the Rolls
Royce mentioned above, the Belgians developed the Minerva at the outset
of the war, although the later Rolls was much more sophisticated,
incorporating a naval-designed rotating turret gun. This foreshadowed the
shape of the majority of AFVs to come. There were armored vehicles long before this, but most were wooden. The Boers in South Africa used a wagon laager much like the one developed by John Zizka in the 15th Century, although I assume the original question concerned metal armor (?). JT |
Posted By: IrishNation1
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 14:22
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Not really. All that Information has been Very Helpfull. I meant I nGeneral so no not Just Metal. Thank you a lot ------------- Early this morning I signed my death warrant. Michael Collins, to friend John O'Kane after signing Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921 |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 17:05
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Armoured steam powered tractors were used in the Crimean war I believe. ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 07:48
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I also think that in the later stages of the hundred years war, the men of ghent used armoured wagons with firelock hand cannons to protect their land against the forces of the duke of flanders and the flemmings.
...Not sure if that counts though! ------------- |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2011 at 16:49
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Armored cars were first used by the Royal Navy to retrieve downed pilots. These were based on civilian cars like the Lanchester or Austin. In Palestine the British used purpose-built Rolls-Royces fitted with machine gun turrets. Some were fitted with new tyres and extra guns and used by the Indian army in WW2 ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2011 at 10:21
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Loved Armor cars Nick...especially the military variants and even though the purist would argue that... in effect....that is all the modern Stryker is...a better version.
My favorites just to look at was the legendary M3-M8's.
Personally prefer wheel base to track as the mobilty was just as good and a hell of a lot easy to maintain. Initally they were light in underarmor which can be hell when dealing with mines.....
  ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2011 at 08:26
Armored cars proved their worth in the desert. Lawrence of Arabia had nine of them during the Arab uprising ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: cavalry4ever
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 15:02
Modern wheel based cars have better mobility and better mileage as there is less friction than in the tracked vehicles. There is interesting variant of armored vehicles. The first modern mine resisting vehicles (MRAP) were built by South Africa in 1979/80 and was called Casspir. Interesting note about incompetence - US generals were totally unaware of their existence. They reinvented the wheel in 2004, after it became obvious that Humvees were ill adapted to the US Army needs. As Clemenceau said: War is too important to be left to the generals ------------- "Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." Mark Twain |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 16:09
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All quite true not to mention the ability to move them via air assets in zone... concerned with load and weight restictions.
I am a connoisseur and user of both......but my druthers remains wheeled....for a lot of reasons. And yes...most of us Armor types followed the developement wordwide with a keen interest. I also knew of the Casspir and yet we ntl carried on with HTLD testing that resulted in a number of platforms none satisfactory, for generic use, until Humvees.
And that with the caveat that it was never intended to be a combat vehicle in the first place but a general transport vehicle in lieu of the old M151A1-3 for personnel and light cargo etc. Buford was.. but it was scrapped for numerous reasons and we ended up eventually with Stryker. As Bradley and the M3 Cav variant (CFV) had already answered the remedy for the M901 ITV within the heavy force (now if memory serves correct only remains as the M981FistV).
Iow. I suspect they (the generals knew all along) knew.
But given RDA caveats and bidding restrictions of the time.... tied with the politics and lobbyists and legal mandates requiring RDA to remain American initially in the process....well you remember the process.
Nothing new there C4E as you no doubt well know.
Always a pleasure to speak with a fellow trooper. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2011 at 20:24
The British used improvised armoured cars in August, 1914. The early days of WWI were the last "gentleman's war". More than a few British upper class officers showed up in France with their personal servants and a few also brought their private cars. The cars, a big novelty item to most in 1914, were driven by chauffer / mechanics that were also servants of the owner.
Somebody then realized that machine guns, especially the heavy ones from the sudanese campaign, could be mounted on cars and then quickly driven to trouble spots. Since the war in the Autumn of 1914 was mobile, the improvised armoured cars were very effective.
As a side note, some of the British officers also orgainized private messes as well. Their chefs would buy the best produce and meat that the French country side had to offer. I bet they ate very well
 . In fairness, to the well fed and well served officers, the fatality rate of great war infantry officers was generally noticably higher than that for ordinary riflemen. |
Posted By: cavalry4ever
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 10:33
This is interesting picture showing great CASPIR engineering. All parts, except hull are designed to easily blow off and can be as easily replaced. Great link showing it running over mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ID2jIdoKOM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ID2jIdoKOM
------------- "Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." Mark Twain |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 10:54
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And equally imortant in this particular case note the height of the carriage from the ground and width of axel base......if ya worrry about mines this is how ya essentially begin your thinking process and deterrence counters.
I learned that a long ago sitting around listening to the Armor Engineer board guys who were a hell of a lot brighter then me.
 I just planned and led and it wasnt until that was done a few times that I remembered the imortance of the RDA guys. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 20:38
Some of the Nazis' armored cars look surprisingly modern. The SdKfz 234 had a tank turret, 20mm aircraft cannon, and a hull that wouldn't look out of place on the 21st century battlefield. All four of its front wheels could be steered and its sloped armor was 15mm thick ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2011 at 18:20
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Perhaps this little video will expose you to another candidate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4aXdDNLgUY&feature=related%20 - Panhard link
Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 12:21
On the other hand Russia's armored cars looked primitive but were well-protected. The BA-27 and its later derivatives were still in use in 1943. These could be converted into halftracks and captured examples were highly prized by the Nazis and Finns ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 25-Jul-2011 at 17:46
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Nick, did you even watch my video? I thought it was spot on!
Are you able to make it easier for fellow readers to see? I seem to lack the necessary ability to do so? PS, I surely like your photo above, and agree with your comments! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 11:14
Ron, what were the extra wheels for? They look a bit like the wheels of a tank ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 26-Jul-2011 at 15:56
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The metal wheels in the centre of the Panhard, were elevated, when speed and conditions for speed were needed or available, and lowered if ground contitions warrented, such as mud, etc.!
While not mentioned, I would suggest that those four metal wheels, would also be of some aid when crossing embankments or walls, etc., as well as providing some movement even if the rubber tyres were mostly destroyed. A pretty nifty little critter! You might notice that there does not even seem to be a front or rear! In fact, it looks so good, I wonder why someone does not manufacture an improved version today? It has a low profile, and looks like it might well have good speed. Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: cavalry4ever
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 11:42
I edited your post. When you want to make a link, enter text of your choice and then highlight it. Chose hyperlink from menu bar (globe with chain) and cut and paste appropriate part of URL in the popup window.
------------- "Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." Mark Twain |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2011 at 19:18
Lanchester armored car from 1914 ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2011 at 19:25
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Nah, nah, nah, Nick! Your armoured car is not as cool as mine!
But it is indeed a good representation! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2011 at 19:26
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Speaking of armoured cars, just why has no one shown the Presidential cars, or the "Pope-mobile?" chuckle!
Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2011 at 09:00
I see your Panhard and raise you an M3  ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2011 at 14:38
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It would easily be a "sitting duck" for the Pahhard! It is too tall, too square, and too ugly to be left running! smile!
Plus it has that great target painted upon the doors and the engine cowling! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2011 at 19:01
Russia's armored cars are fully amphibious, well armed and have a specially-designed "frying-pan" turret giving them the lowest possible profile ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2011 at 19:29
This improvised armored car was built by the French resistance in 1944 and used during the siege of La Rochelle. Similar vehicles, utilising the chassis of trucks, were used during the Norwegian and Polish uprisings ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2011 at 08:44
In 1920 during war against Soviet Union Poland desperatelly needed tanks and armoured cars. One of the first were popular Ford T cars which were improvised armoured cars. Here is a movie showing such Ford T, which in Poland as armoured car was named Ford F-TB.
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And here is article about those armoured cars.
http://derela.republika.pl/ftb.htm - http://derela.republika.pl/ftb.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FT-B - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FT-B
------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2011 at 17:29
Here is the main Russian armored car of the Polish-Soviet War. The Austin-Putilov was originally supplied to the Tsarist army but many ended up in Communist hands. The roller on the front enabled it to cross trenches and the caterpillar tracks prevented it sinking into the melting snow ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 20:24
Many French P107 artillery tractors fell into Nazi hands following the fall of France. The wooden body was replaced with armor plate and the halftrack was adapted for new roles: some were converted into APCs and armed with machine guns and others were fitted with anti aircraft guns ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2011 at 21:29
------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2011 at 19:11
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If you look at the front of the car, it has the same roller as the Russian Austin. The halftrack would be driven into the ditch and the roller enabled it to climb out the other side ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 19:53
This appears to be the missing link between armored cars and tanks. It's a 1927 Vickers-Wolseley which could run on either tracks or wheels ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 20:37
The Russians have their own version of the VW hippie van: the UAZ 452. In addition to looking cool it has 4X4 capability, although (unlike the Kombi) its engine is at the front, freeing up a lot of storage space. These are still in production today and, like all Russian trucks, are sought after for their simplicity and reliability ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2011 at 20:04
The Grizzly is an experimental armored car designed to withstand roadside bombs. Unfortunately the US army insists on using the Hummer in Iraq, preferring to gamble with mens lives rather than invest in a replacement ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 19:38
British Vickers Crossley armored cars were used by the Japanese navy. Their domed turrets were designed to deflect bullets and had a fireproof asbestos lining. Other countries that used them included Canada, India and South Africa ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 19:06
Eve of Destruction, the last gun truck of the Vietnam War. Long before the "hillbilly armor" of the Iraq War US troops had to improvise an escort for their supply convoys in jungle crawling with Vietcong. Eve's weapons included six .50 cal machine guns and a grenade launcher: a big improvement over the lightly armed Jeeps previously used ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: hotels-in-hue
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 23:01
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I'm also interested in the issue, thank you all topic were asked: D
------------- |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2011 at 01:12
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What ya interested in is in stealing free ad space ya spammer pos..........begone.
bawahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ya been banned and post deleted....try again asshole.
I'll be here. bawahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 08:42
Here's the Daimler scout car my grandad drove during the war. He was in Palestine and North Africa before D-Day ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 09:33
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A modified version of that would be useful on the southern US frontier for drug interdiction use.
Then again the Lynx Mk1 would probably do as well. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 09:40
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Which armored cars was your cavalry unit equipped with Centrix? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 18:28
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They were not.. until the arrival of the Stryker much later. I served in both heavy and light Cav and the TOE's varyed (depending on the unit structure.. regimental versus divisional) from being equipped with M113/114 APC's and M60A1-3/M1-A1 Tanks or M551 Sheridans to M901 ITV/113's and eventually variants with HMMWV's with 50cals and Mk40 grenade launcers etc and TOW's.
During the latter stages of the HTLD (1983-89) test period; a number of systems were examined to include the on shelf use of modified 'dune buggy' type platforms with the reintroduction of motorcycles in the troop.
Later still, I was a T/E unit consultant for the M8 Buford. But it lost it's funding. And Stryker replaced it. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 08:53
One of the first armored cars used by the Belgians in WW1. These were usually officers' private vehicles fitted with armor plate. They were used to pursue German uhlans in the same way Edwardian aristocrats hunted tigers in India ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 21:10
A 1914 newspaper clipping depicting Belgian officers hunting German cavalry for sport from the safety of their armored car ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |