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Azerbaijan Turkish Language

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Alborz View Drop Down
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  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Azerbaijan Turkish Language
    Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 23:02
okay kids, its not called "Azari turkish", but it is called Turkish. the Dialect in r. azerbaijan is closer to anatolian because soviet union tried to de-iranianize it, but turkish spoken by Azarbaijanis (and many other iranians) in Iran is more persianized and a different dialect of anatolian. however it is the same language in my opinion= Turkish.
 
anyway, alot of people in Iran know Turkish. either learned it in school or since they were kids from their parents.
 
Originally posted by Tangriberdi

Denying the very Turkishness of Azerbaijani Turks , you Pan Iranist will never avoid to distort the facts. I belive this.
 
 
 
"Tangriberdi", the discussion is about LANGUAGE not ehtnictiy or nationality. Denying the Iranianness of Azarbayejanis (and perhaps Arranis) is a concrete fact that you hold racialist and hostile attitudes.
 
I believe you are in the wrong discussion, check the forum again you degenerate, its called "Linguistics". if you cant read it, perhaps you need to study more on linguistics before you end up here LOL.
 
p.s. Just one more thing, Mohammad Hossein Shahriar, the great poet of Tabriz, who wrote beautifully in both Turkish and Persian proudly calls all Azarbaijanis "Aryans".
 
Tangriberdi, and please get a life.
 
 
oh and please dont give us more of your 'words' that persian "lacks". when you dont know anything, please keep your mouth shut. I cant tell that our Iranian friends here are laughing their stomach out.


Edited by Alborz - 22-Oct-2006 at 01:26
"Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 05:55

Alborz, I hope you can change your way of discussion. This thread has been discussed in a very good manner and a very constructive way until you posted your first post with obvious provocation:

Originally posted by Alborz

anyway, the language is not Azari, azari was regional dialect of persian/pahlavi. Azari and Arrani languages were just dialects of pahlavi, and today the languages in both regions that are prominent are Turkish.



and personal attack, rather than discussing the topic:

Originally posted by Alborz


anyway, I believe this "Bulldog" is politically or something motivated, I have read many of his posts. they smell fishy.



Now, you are insulting all the participants of the discussion using terms like "Kids".

Therefore, You have received official warning.

Now we can come back to the topic:

Tenriberdi gave a very good reason for the pronoun of "Man" to be Turkic. Qazaq "Men", Qirghiz "Men", Uyghur "Man" are used. Most importanly, Turkic grammatical structure follows subject and verb harmony.


Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 12:26
The most of the languges in the world have been distributed by the process of assimilation,for example Turkish in Anatolia, Persian in west and South Iran.
we call Anatolian as Turks and South Iranian as persians because process has been completed.
The process of spreading Turkish in anatolia and azerbaijan should have started at the same time but in Azerbayjan has not completed, because Azeries need to speak Persian to find a job, this is a natural proccess of assimilation.It is a sad strory a culture is dying but it is a fact.
Nobody can blame Persians for this, because Azeries should calim their culture and they do not. Normal people do not care about the race and languge they need jobs, houses and health care , now Iranian government is a provider for azeries so they are assimilationg to Persian.
If they were living under ottoman empire they would be Turkish now, and many pan Iranist would consider them as turks.
I am an Iranian Azeri, a guy  in the middle of assimilation proccess I do not say I enjoy speaking Persian, because I think Turkish is more beautiful, but I have to become a persian, to have a better life in Iran. This is even happened to the Persian themselves
 
 
 
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 12:40
shinai cant you be just Iranian azari? YOu dont need to get Persian if you want a job or something, just knowing persian is enough if im correct so you can behold youre azari identity also, cant you?
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 13:16
Day I,what happens is that, We need to leave Azerbaijan to find a good job, Mostly Tehran is the Taraget. Our Kids speaks both Persian and Turki language at the same time, to look more Tehrani, they act more Tehrani, they speak Turki only wit their parents and grand parents. They do this to look more local.
Parents try to Speak Persian more with kids to help them speak without accent, Those kids grow up in best case they get married with another azeri immigrant, thier kids will be fully persian these kids may only have only a Turkic name.
If it was not because of Turkish TVs I had forgotten Azeri (immagine my grand parents did not speak Persian at all, even one of them were able to read Shanameh very well), even now I speak more close to Turkish than Turki(Azeri). The death of a culture is very fast , it only takes 1 or two generations. I gusse it is a historical proccess, 100 years later the population of Azeri would decline to a small minority in Iran. The population already declined from 30 m to 20 m only in last 10 years, because 10 m azeris suddenly stopped calling themselves Turk.
It is also supported by the other countries, Turkey likes a stable Iran as her neighbor, so  ignor the facts, Arabs think all Iranian are still zorasterians, and Westerner evene do not know what is the differences between Persians and Arabs. for a westerner a Turk is the citizen a of Turkey and a citizen of iran should be Persian, anyhow I donot blame anybody, assimilation is a historical fact happened almost everywhere
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  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 14:58
barbar, you dont even know me, so please dont judge me:
 
. Nationalism, derogatory remarks to national or ethnic groups, jingoism, bigotry, racism, political propaganda. (see appendix below
 
I would laugh at this accusation, but I'm just too shocked about it.
 
when did I express nationalism (and when tangi never did?), when did I made derogatory remarsk to any other national or ethnic groups? when was I racist? what makes you think i am doing political propaganda? is it because I revealed those with political propagdana? I would love to appeal you warning, but I think I remember why I left this forum in the first place.
 
 
good day, and have a nice life.


Edited by Alborz - 22-Oct-2006 at 15:05
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  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 15:04
shinai, there is no such thing as ethnicty as "azeri". its just a nickname to those who come from azarbaijan province: including its kurdish, armenian, and georgian speaking population. The term ethnicity doesnt or shouldnt apply to people of Iran (and people of mid-east in general). ethnicity is only relavent to isolated areas such as kurds, and tribes such as Bakhtiaris. sometimes iranians try to differentiate themselves from arabs racially and even culturally. although they have some good points, but in reality iranians, arabs, and turks are of the same kind. Iranian and Turkish culture is almost identical, because they both are of Islamic civilization, havent you noticed that our music sounds alike, expect the language?
 
its a fact however, that turkish is a declining language in Iran, taken over by English. times change, persian used to be spoken all the way in India, but its taken over by english. its how the world changes. however, turkish wont disappear forever in Iran, because it is Not banned. not even hebrew is banned in Iran.
 
Azarbaijanis are no the integerated ones in Iran, shinai, they are the ones who integrated all of Iranians to this nation. remmeber it was Shah Ismail who re-established Iran as a nation. so when you say "azeri culture is dying", is wrong. infact, azarbaijan is the culture of whole of iran. other iranians have been assimliated to this culture for more than 500 years.
 
just a little history.
 
 
p.s. DayI, nice to see you here again. anyway, later and if I dont respond, is because im never comingn to this messed up forum ever again.


Edited by Alborz - 22-Oct-2006 at 15:23
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 16:42
Shinai the process of globalisation is making the world an ever smaller place, Tork in Iran know their not the only Turks and know that speaking Turki can be a benefit as speaking Persian can. The thing is the process you describe naturally can create tension, a sense of threat and negative ctions which can spark movements. This is what the U.S especially is trying to support. They want Azeri in Iran to feel oppressed causing Iran to percieve them as a threat and repress any freedom of their identity.
 
 
This has happened countless times in many areas, centrallised states respond quite harshly to what they percieve as threats to the unitary identity.
 
However, this only deepens the problem and makes it worse, giving those who actually want to create a problem more and more ammunition to do so.
 
However, if the percieved oppressed groups rights are given the problem can be averted from the start. Without anything to play on, those who want to use the situation to create chaos cannot as they have nothing to use.
 
This scenario has been played in Turkey for years.
 
Now unfortunately ists moving to Iran.
 
The mass protests in Iranian Azerbaycan earlier this year are an example of this and shouldn't be taken lightly.
 
Hopefully Iran will not fall into this trap, currently most Turks in Iran I know and most material shows that they do feel a part of Iran and don't want to seperate all they want is more rights like teaching language, more freedom in exxpressing identity and so on. These don't seeem big issues but they can become huge problems if not addressed. If Iran granted some of these demands it could avert a serious head-ache in the future, keep its unity and not let outside influences create division which they will try so very hard to do.
 
They are going to attempt anything to divide Iran and use anyone they can to further this, this is a critical time, hoipefully Iran will deal with it cleverly. 
 
 


Edited by Bulldog - 22-Oct-2006 at 21:07
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 20:52
Azeri Turkish and Turkish are very similar,and are virtually the same languages.

During communims the Soviets sent to Bulgaria Azeri Turks to indoctrainte us, Bulgarian Turks into communism, they did this obviously because the languages are very similar.

My cousins in Sweden (a mixture of Macedonian, Kosovar and Bulgarian Turks) regularly tune into Azeri TV and watch it, obviously because they can understand it. Turkish is a very diverse language, it is spoken very differently in the Balkans than it is in the Anatolia, and the regional variations of the Turkish dialect are great. Azeri Turkish is no more different than Anatolian Turkish, than Rumelian Turkish is. They are all in the same Turkish group.

As for Azeri Turks in Iran, I have not met many so I cannot comment. THe only Azeri Turk I met was quite shy about speaking in Turkish, did not get a chance to speak to him much. I got the impression he did not understand much though.


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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:03
For a comparsion between Bulgarian Turkish and Azeri Turkish you may have a look at the following clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2elC16faSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC9ddGGXiWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gOWtascJE

I feel like Bulgarian Turkish is closer to Azeri Turkish, than to Istanbulite Turkish - it is harsher and rougher, whereas Istanbul Turkish is too soft. Does anybody else get this feeling?


Edited by bg_turk - 22-Oct-2006 at 21:07
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:07
Originally posted by bg_turk

For a comparsion between Bulgarian Turkish and Azeri Turkish you may have a look at the following clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2elC16faSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC9ddGGXiWM

I feel like Bulgarian Turkish is closer to Azeri Turkish, than to Istanbulite Turkish - it is harsher and rougher, where Istanbul Turkish is too soft. Does anybody else get this feeling?
yea i got that impression also, i am a somebody who's parents are from a Turkish village every year if i go to their village people speak harsh and way different then the "normal" Turkish that we speak here at home :) Istanbul Turkish is too soft for us :D

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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:10
Ok here is another one by Reyhan, half in Turkish, half in Bulgarian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVGayCfHH1w



Edited by bg_turk - 22-Oct-2006 at 21:10
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2006 at 09:02
Ooooh OYNA OYNA Tongue
 
This is the famous Rumelli Hawa?
 
Bg_Turk do you have any "Bulgarian Turku", what are the famous one's?
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:37
I do not think Roumelian Turkish which always follows the offcial Turkish linguistşic pattern in Turkey  can be compared to Azerbaijani Turkish which is divided into two political dialectal areas, South one of which has always been in effort to keep in touch with Anatolian Turkish and the other(North) followed a rather and relatively independent period of process due to Russian modelled linguistic policies. In this context we have to accept that South Azerbaijani intelligentsia is prone to use Anatolian-made words for the recent concepts. For example Guney for South Quzey for North. Both are not Azerbaijani native words but borrowed from Anatolian by Southern Azerbaijani.
All in all what I mean is that we should compare Anatolian Turkish and Azerbaijani Turkish in order to prove our claims. Because Balkan Turkish is nothing but a dialect continuum of Anatolian Turkish which is a dialect continuum of Common Turkish, ie Turkic languages group.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 17:02
Tangriberdi, can you watch Azerbaycan Tv and do you understand? if you do then it cannot be called a dialect as without studying Azeri Turkish one can understand them and Azeri Turki speakers can understand Anatolian Turkish, the difference is accent with regional words and some lexical differences.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:51
This a good site about Azeri language afshar accent there are mp3 samples
 
I was wondering how you guys would understand this one, please let me know.
 
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:54
Also if you look at the pictures these people look like Persians and Afghans, These people are nomads they are not supposed to be mixed with others too much. All oghuz nomads I know Shamlus, bayenders, Khelaj , are same, like Iraians
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  Quote bleda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 19:10
i understand very easy azeri languagaes.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 20:12
Persians don't all look the same, there are blonde haired Persians, Black Persians, Turkic looking Persians, Afgans arn't all the same there are dark, light, White looking, Asiatic looking Afgans. Turks don't all look the same......
 
Basing assumptions on people's look and subjective views about how certain people look has no place or credibility in determining people.
 
Language is a far more important factor, the language is mutually intellegeble.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 21:12
Bulldog, how much you could understand from sample of Afshar Turkic accent?
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