Azerbaijan Turkish Language
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Linguistics
Forum Discription: Discuss linguistics: the study of languages
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15246
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 05:29
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Azerbaijan Turkish Language
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Subject: Azerbaijan Turkish Language
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 06:48
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The language that we talk here, in Azerbaijan is called Azerbaijani, Azeri or Azerbaijan Turkish language. It is one of the arms of Oguz turkish tribe that after 13th was changed to Ottoman, Turkman, Turkmen, Kerkuk, Azerbaiycan and etc. We have also many native Caucasia-Albanian words in our lecsicon and alo many Arabian words becouse of the influance of Islam. There is Some from Persia and some from Rus-Europe. It sopunds just like Turey Turkish. There is aliitle bit of difference but it feels especially with Istanbul turkish. There is also many turkish-Azerbaijani words in modern Armenian and it is of course becouse of the reason that we are naighboors. The same with Georgians. I want to remind that there are more that 25 million Azerbaijani turks living in Iran, and theyir dialects are more close to farsi, like the stress and pronanciation of words or sentences. But in fact they talk more fluently turkish which is close to Ottoman times language that Turkey or Azerbaijan nations.
So if u have any questions, or if u perhaps want to discuss anything about my language, or the language that i talk i am ready for it.
Best regards to u ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Replies:
Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 07:11
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Welcome to the forum, Azeri brother. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 07:18
Thank u Barbar ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Endorphin
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 16:54
| Salamlar gagashlar - ne var, ne yox? |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 09:46
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bele da, sagol
thanks, not too bad ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 18:54
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Selam KerimOglu , could you tell me What are the albian origine words in azeri, because 80% of azeri sounds like persian to me. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 06:57
Well then Persian sounds like Turkish 
Do you speak Turki? ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 17:40
Evet kardesim, bende Turkce biliyorum, amma turkce yazmak bene bir az zor dir , daha calismaliyam .
Azerice ve farsca ni da cocik olan zaman orgenmisem.
actually i love Turkish language, I found it more beatiful than persian,I like Turkish music too.
Beacuse of the fact i speak turkish, Persian, and azeri i say that Azeri is collection of persian words ending by a Tukic verb.
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:33
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Maybe you mean Iranian Azari as opposed to Soviet Azari? My Azari friend from Tabriz said he can't understand Turkish at all except for some words here and there. Similarly, the Kurdish guys from Diyarbakir at the local Kebab place said they cannot understand Azari at all. I thought they would because they speak with an eastern Accent and it sounded closer to Azari.
Some Turkish people here previously led me to believe it was only a difference in accent, but it seems like a little more. ------------- |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 20:37
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Zagros Salam. The diffrence is more than an accent. The Turkish grammer is diffrent from Azeri.for example in Turkish they add a "mi" to the end of the their sentences to ask a question but in azeri at least in Iran it is not common.
at least 80 persnet of azeri is Persian or old Pahlavi origin words.
I live in canada and my best budy is a zaza from Turkey, I always chat with him in Turkish he was so surprised because he was told in Turkey that azeri is very similar to turkish but he found it very different.
I am sure if somebody works in Azeri academically he would find strong I.E. root. I found many words common between azeri and Zaza languge.
unfortunately the culture in Caucase is introduced to the world as Azeri culture, but their culture is closer to Turkish than to azeries.
Example :
Azeri:
bugun nahar ra jujeh kabab var,
Persian
emruz nahar jujeh kabab darim.
all the sentences are like this, even the saying are exact translation from Persian.
if you remebr i gave a link to paper showing that azeris in Iran have large percentage of R1a1(17%) which is way more than caucase(5%).
Azeries culture is very similar to persian in Tehran, and Isfehan
I gusse it was the Partian part of Iran.
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Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 03:34
It is clear why Kurds canot uynderstand Azeri. Turkic language spoken in Anatolia is not their mother tongue. But We Anatolian Turks can easily understand someone from North Azerbaijan.
It is a pure Turkish language.
Once I met someone from Southern Azerbaijan. He spoke Azeri with heavyPersian loanwords. It was not intelligible.
Iranian azerbaijanis forget their own Turkic words and use lots of Persian words. They become assimilated gradually. That is why they think Turkish is not so close to Azerbaijani Turkish and Persian culture is closer to them.
That is it.
A result of yearslong Iranian policies on Azerbaijani Turks.
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 05:11
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Shinai, That is very interesting because Zaza themselves are descended from Parthians, whose language was dominant in Azarbaijan prior to its Turkicisation. I also read somewhere a study by a Professor Yarshater of Tabriz university who had done a study on Azari etymology, he concluded that many words, rather than being Persian were in fact Parthian Pahlavi in origin.
Tengri:
The guys from Diyarbakir spoke Turkish with each other and their accent sounded a little like Azari, Istanbul accent sounds nothing like Azari. I only asked if they were Kurdish when they said they were from Diyarbakir.
And it has nothong to do with Governemnt policies on Azaries. If you would like to look back at history, all Turkic origin dynasties in the region, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, have adopted Persian as their language. Do you think that maybe, that this fact has had something to do with it? JUST MAYBE?
Give me one example of Iranian polciies on Azaries that may have had such an effect. As far as I know, their language or practises have never been banned, which is more than can be said about some of Iran's neighbours with relation to minorities. So please enlighten me. ------------- |
Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 06:20
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Also, in Iranian Azerbaijan, everybody's speaking Azeri, even in the offices and hospitals. In fact, there are lots of Azeris who cant' speak Farsi at all. What's the assimilation you're talking about? Azeris has got lots of Persian loanwords, simply because Azeris are originally from old Irannic population that once lived there. ------------- Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 07:55
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The assimilation is when they go to non-Azari areas, but that is natural, because they have to learn the local dialect/language if they wish to be a part of the existing commerce, education etc of the area and usually by the second generation they lose their Azari tongue and this is just me speculating on this so called assimilation, because every Azari I know can speak Azari whether Tehrani or Tabrizi.
It is the same with many Kurds in West Azarbaijan, they also speak Azari because it is the predominant urban language there. ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 11:28
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Common lets stop decieving ourselves,
Azeri from Iran can undertand Azeri of Northern Azerbaycan and Turkey. People in Azeri regions of Iran watch Turkiye Turkey Tv, do you think theyre stupid watching something they don't understand 
Its not even a difference in accent. Turks in Eastern Turkey have the same accent as Azeri Turks. A Turk from Kars, Erzerum, Elazig, Igdir has the same accent as an Azeri Turk. Well Turkish is a major language in Iran spoken in Iran it should recieve official status and be taught now. If it was it would take away any power those who want to divide Iran have si its win-win for Iran. Zagros there is no need to get defensive, its not your fault that Iran had such policies its not the average Turks fault for some policies of Turkey, there is no need to defend policies which are wrong.. The Shah Pahlavi's were incredibly racist towards Turks and did try hard to assimilate them which like all forced assimilation is bound to fail. Azeri in Iran complain that their language isn't allowed to be taught, various prejeduce and restrictions against them, that their language should be accepted and embraced as a major language. They have a point, a large proportion of Iran speaks the language. Plus it will open more door's for Iran, they can build closer ties with Turkic countries easier, if we put romantiscm aside it would be quite a good move. Azari is not a language, nobody says I speak Azerbaycani, they say "Turki" as is the common nmae in Iran. Infact only Azeri from Republic of Azerbaycan I've heard to have said, "I speak Azeri or Azeri Turkish". Iranian Azeri say they speak "Turki". I remember in Uni, I was talking to some guy in Turkish then this other person asked a question in Turkish, we got talking then asked where he's from and he said Iran. Ignorantly I said, oh you speak good Turkish how did you learn isn't your language Frasi. Then I got a LECTURE about how he speaks Turki and that its a major language in Iran. Then I said "so your a TUrk in Iran", after I got another lecture. About Turks not only being in Turkey and that he's Iranian but a Turk. Anyway he introduced us to his firends all from Iran, they spoke real good Turkish, I had no trouble communicating. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 12:55
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Wake up... Iran is not a Persian country, the only thing Persian about this regime is the language it speaks. Azaries are in the highest offices of power in Iran, if they felt so persecuted, I am sure one of the first things they would have done was to push for a change in the official language like you effectively propose. Turkic rulers in the past also used Persian, Persian is the language of Iran, always has been, no need for any other "official" languages. If people feel the need they can perpetuate their own language without it being official, Kurds are the best example of this.
And yes, the Shah was incredibly racist against Turks. So give me one instance please where he was racist? One instance of oppression of Azaries? He was so racist against Azaries that he even married one... yea makes a lot of sense, very racist. Half his cabinet consisted of Azaries, if he was racist like Saddam (sunni Arab), they would all have been Persian. Also racist against Turks is the fact that he made a military alliance with Turkey. hmm.
After the revolution there was a two year full blown civil war in rural Kurdestan, for Azaries, all that the new government had to do was send a couple of bus fulls of RG to Tabriz and all was quiet, they proabbaly asked them nicely in Torki to behave themselves.
Actually Azari is an officially recognised language, if ther was no difference with Turkish why would it be called Azari? In Iran Azari and Tork are used interchangably. Turkish Turks are called Tork e Torkiye.
I believed what I heard from people on this forum about the Turkish languages once, not again. I will trust real people with no political agenda. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 13:45
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I have asked another one of my friends by e-mail, he speaks Tuirkish, Torki, and Persian. They obviously stem from the same root but what I dispute is their mutal intelligability, I will advise what he says here. ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 13:53
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If Iran isn't a Persian country why does it bother you? the Turkic speakers are also a part of Iran.
Wake up man, Were not living in the "past", were not living hundreds of years ago, were living today. In the past, monarchs of Europe used "Latin" "French" etc do they carry on this monarchist system today, ofcourse not.
Today alot of Azeri want their language recognised, accepted and taught, its no good saying oh some Turkic leaders in the past used Persian as a language of governance. That was then, this is now, thing's change.
Oh common, the Shah created his downfall, "Tork-e-khar", Azeri's being stupid Persians who spoke the language is an example of his rhetoric. The Islamic revolution was so sucessfull thanks to the support of the Azeri Turks againts the old regime. Ayatollah Shahmadarati was key in this.
In those times anything remotely "Turkic" was outlawed. Nowadays things are getting better, there is more freedom for them to express their identity and culture.
In time there language will be accepted, its in Iran's interest, , Iran is currently under attack they will use anything to divide Iran, playing upon percieved ethnic grievences is the best way to go about this. If Turki is accepted, taught and used in regional areas as the second language, what can the "imperialists" play around with? they'll have no upper hand.
Look at how they created the situation earlier this year which sparked huge protests by Azeri Turks in Iran. They're just trying to build up a sense of isolation, neglect and oppression to play around with, they don't care about Kurds or Azeri they just want to divide Iran in anyway they can.
About language, there is no need to decieve yourself.
If you have a Turk friend from Turkey also invite a Torke from Iran and tell them to speak in Turkish if you don't want to believe it. Why do Torke in Iran watch Tv from Turkey if they can't understand, why when Azeri talk on Turkey Tv there is no subtitles when Turkey Turk speaks on Azeri Tv there is no subtitles.
It is not called "Azari" who says this except Westerners, its locally known as "Turki" which you should know.
Is she not speaking Turkish I wonder, Turkey Turk members here can you understand her?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ds5Zrtges&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ds5Zrtges&mode=related&search =
Azeri Poet and Araz Elses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTna1GtEODI&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTna1GtEODI&mode=related&search =
Protest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH4xg9txCKo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH4xg9txCKo ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 14:11
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You know what I find strange? I have never heard of these grievances from Azaries in person, only through the internet from either Turkish people or Soviet Azaries. Like I said, every Azari I know and have known can speak Azari, from one of my dad's best friends to the new friends I have made, students fresh from Iran. Tork e Khar was not brought in at the time of the Pahlavis. The two explanations I have heard both predate them, one is Imperial Russian subversion to take Turkic part of Iran, so add tot what they got int he treaty of Golestan; the other, it being directed at the Qajars because of how the latter Qjar monarchs used and abused Iran and got robbed blind by the British in the process. ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 14:33
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Well then you shouldn't have trouble realising that Iran Torke Turki is mutually intellegeble to Turkey Turki.
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 14:43
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Well, I will let you know what my Tabrizi friend says when I hear from him. Another point: If Pahlavi banned Azari and the rest of it, howcome Koorosh Yaghmaee and Googoosh both sang Azari songs in the 70s?
Reyhan (Koorosh) and Ayerligh (Googoosh). ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 16:20
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More examples of Iran-Torke Turki
Sami Yusuf - Anam (Mother)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Bdw1fM3DA&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Bdw1fM3DA&mode=related&search =
Elses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVmXc8Co7A - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVmXc8Co7A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hHc_ik3x6s -
Azeri-Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faKLdyFIY6Q - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faKLdyFIY6Q
http://www.azerin.az/az/?D=a110055b5f207ff23fa300be45070170&PHPSESSID=b191 77ef4add8d1d76ee1c0c3b860500 - http://www.azerin.az/az/?D=a110055b5f207ff23fa300be45070170&PHPSESSID=b191 77ef4add8d1d76ee1c0c3b860500
Oh and let's use sources to back up wild claims, we can all say anything we like, oh Persian is 80% Arabic root I could say it but a Persian speaker would know I was talking nonsense so let's be a little more sensible before making unverifiable ridiculous claims. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 05:21
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My Question:
"Ali jan, man ye soali daram: Farghe Torki e Torkiye ba Torki e Azarbaijan e Iran kame ya ziad? Masalan: Ye Azarie mamooli be rahati Torki e Torkiye halish mishe ya na?"
"I have a question: what is the difference between Turkish Turkish and Iranian Azari Turkish, is it a lot or a little? Eg: Can an ordinary Azari easily comprehend Turkish Turkish or not?"
This is what my friend had to say:
"rastesh shoresh jan kelamat moshtarak hastesh vali noe talafoz fargh mikone baraye hamin ham agar ham man begam on nafahme!albate man turkiye onaro baladam chon onja zendegi kardam ... vali kolan baraye ye azari sakht nistesh ke turkiye onjaro yad begire.... "
"Really, there are a lot of words in common but the way of pronunciation of those words is quite different, for this reason there is not mutual intelligibility. I however, have lived in Turkey and I understand their Turkish... Overall it's not at all hard for an Azari to learn their Turkish."
Which is almost concurrent with what I have been told by my other Azari friends, and was what I was saying all along, that they are not intelligible because they are essentially different dialects and actually require a bit of study. I alluded to the common root before.
It is misleading to say that there is no difference. ------------- |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 06:02
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Ok, Zagros, u touched to very beautiful point. Let me explain. Azeri Turks living in Iran have been living there since Turks came to Middle east. In Fact they were more close to Persian atnicity than other Turks did. And living directly under Iran authority, from 1817, Turks living in Iran had many parts changed. They adopted a lots of words as well as accent. That is the reason, that i see, is why u uys understand each other not bad. Now i am writing all the words that I know down, which I can understand from your sentence: Jan-Life, Body
Man-BEn????
Farghe-Ferq-Fark-Arabian word that means difference
Rahat-comfortable
kelemat-kelem-kelme-word???
Moshterak-Musterek-togeter, collaborated??
Albate, we say Elbette, surely!
yad-forign?? It must be word of foreign language, u know.
Anyway, i claim that, those are the only words that i could understand, except the names, of course.
U know, Albanian words in our language, well, there ism, but it will take a big time for me to find those words and compare if we do have it in other turkish languages, or not. if we dont, then surely they must be native caucasian only if they are not persian or arabian origin.
By the way, another example, UZUNDIRAZ means very tall man in Azeri turkish. Uzun means tall in turkish and Diraz means tall in Persian, so Tall-Tall man.
We have a great influance in Azerbaijan language from Arabians that other turks did, and we have it even much more than persian. But I simply cannot deni the influance of Persian language to mione. There is a big one, which I am not saying the words in a negative way or oppinion. I do not have any negative thoughts about Perisans either.
Turkey turks and Azeri turks (both living in Iran and Norther Azerbaijan) speak the same. Even there is no any big dialects. But Iran turks are more close to Persia both in language and culture. ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 06:10
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Man, in 70's Iran was one of the greates places in the world. Gogoosh and others were the best singers. There were all the signs of modernization, only in army in 70's there were more than 400 F 14's and 100 F 16's when Turkey had only Sabres yet.
Now Iran, oh man, I wanna cry  , in the hands opf couple mullahs doing nonsense there, why Iran should need a nuclear power and all of those ??? Anyway, I am sorry for going off topic. Those were my personal oppinions and they're not directed to any members of this forum. Please do not take those as a threat, but there is no need for comparison Iran in 70's and iran now. It is surely going backwords. And I am sorry for that. I believe that, people in authority in Iran now just do not want to lose their positions and that is the reason why it is almost a totalitarian regime there.------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: bleda
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 06:30
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100 f16 400 f14 are you sure???? ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 08:40
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Kerim jan - Thanks for your input and I agree with it.
Now for the words you mentioned:
Jan-Life, Body - correct, but in the context we used it it means "dear". Iranic word.
Man-BEn???? - means I (I have a question). Iranic root.
Farghe-Ferq-Fark-Arabian word that means difference - Yes, Arabic.
Rahat-comfortable - or easy - Iranic
kelemat-kelem-kelme-word??? words - Arabic.
Moshterak-Musterek-togeter, collaborated?? "The same" Arabic.
Albate, we say Elbette, surely! - Albate can be used like "however" or "but".
yad-forign?? It must be word of foreign language, u know. - No yad is used like "yad begiram" -to learn, it also refers to memory, "yad et miad?" "Do you remember?"
-- No F16s but F4 Phantoms, F5s and F14 (about 100, not 400). ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 11:34
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Zagros the Turki of Iran/Azerbaycan(North) and Turki of Turkey is not a different dialect, it is same dialect and mutually intellegeble.
I posted some clips, someone speaking Turkey Turkish without speaking to an Iran Turk in his life will easily be able to understand it.
A few different words and a few pronounciation differences does not make a dialect.
Is Manchester, Liverpudlian or Geordie(Newcastle) English therfore not English? well anybody stating such a claim is being absurd.
Eastern Turkey and Azerbaycan Turki is infact closer than London Enligsh is to Newcastle accent English.
BAKHTIYAR VAHABZADE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjEmDuZU9Vs&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjEmDuZU9Vs&mode=related&search =
Yasha Yasha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyyh4f-Osdc&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyyh4f-Osdc&mode=related&search =
Alihan Samedon Sibel-Can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LylKTq0gC0Q&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LylKTq0gC0Q&mode=related&search =
Yar bashina don senin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGe_LCahoMo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGe_LCahoMo
Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSYmJfiwU8I&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSYmJfiwU8I&mode=related&search =
And Icherem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkwBUEfrZxk&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkwBUEfrZxk&mode=related&search =
P.s "Rahat" is Arabic
Men/Ben I don't think its "Iranic"
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 12:21
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Man, means I - same in German and in all other IE languages in one form or another. I dont think there are any borrowed pronouns, in any language.
I don't understand Turki, in any dialect/accent/language so those meant nothing to me. I will trust the word of my friends and personal contacts if that's OK. I don't have any agenda in wanting to know; it has always been personal interest, but pan nationalists always said there was no difference here, and I believed them, rather naively. Sorry but my friends have no political affiliations, and I treat them as neutral. ------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 12:48
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Everybody has pollitical affliations and bias' of some sorts especially when it concerns themselves.
Turki in Iran and Turki in Turkey are not different dialects, they are the same language with some regional variations and in the case of Eastern Turkey there isn't a large accent difference either.
Well other Turkiye Turks here can comment and tell us if they can understand the language in those clips or if its a different language and mutually un-intellegeble.
p.s The Bahtiyar interview, is by "Banu Avar" who is a journalist from Turkiye, she is interviewing the famous Azeri poet, does it look like she is struggling there is no subtitles either.
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 17:42
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Bulldog, I agree with you that almost all words you are using in Turkish could be used in azeri but the problem is that the language is close to die in Iran. The process of the Turkification has been stopped after Pahlavi era and it started to move revers afer Islamic Republic comes around.
I agree that the Turkish TVs are more popular than Iranian TV in Iranian azerbaijan, I saw it myself, people can understand it because they watch it regularly, I remeber a joke about a begger in Tebrzi telling that
"Yardim edin, lutfen" instead of telling "bagisliyin"
I am not happy of what going to the language that my grandparents used to speak, because when I watch the Turkish Tvs I remember my grand mother, she was a Bayat but my dad can not sepak like her.
my mother side are from kardag, which I donot know where is that , but she also does not know how to say "Yugurt",even she does not say"Gatuk", she says "Mast". Theere was Mountain close to us used to be Gaflanti, now it is ghaflan kuh. Azeries could be same as Turkish in 16th cetury but now it is like persian.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 18:08
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Pahlavi era wasn't Turkifying anyone Shinai, the Azeri Turkish awakening is quite recent going back only a few decades especially after the establishment of the Republic of Azerbaycan in the North, the Karabagh war, the collapse of the soviet Union and removal of Iron curtain.
You hardly ever used to see Tork of Iran speaking Turki or talking about wanting to be educated in Turki etc, now there are many and the number keeps growing, Torke are now more active their exposed to alot more Turkish influence due to media, certain groups, globolisation which is bringing the world closer and understanding of different areas are becomming much easier and open.
Its up to the Tork of Iran to not let their language "die", Turkish is an important language which is growing in influence and speakers, I think knowing more than one language is great, if you know Turki, Farsi also Arabic or Kurdi than all the better, languages open up doors its a great benefit. From what I see alot of Tork of Iran carry on speaking Turki and now value it alot more, its a great benefit, you guys can go to Republic of Azerbaycan, Turkey, Turkish Cyprus, areas of the Caucaus, Turkic areas in the Balkans and Turkmenistan and communicate without problems, be accepted as a fellow brother and easily fit in. You can also go to Afganistan and Tajikistan and speak with Persian-Dari speakers there, I think Farsi is close to these languages.
What an advantage! ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2006 at 23:31
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Nice discussion here around. About the term Torke-Khar i agree with Zagros, i have seen persian sources which are dated many years befor Pahlavis either. Btw, Azeri people use this term theirselves!! The most jocks about Azeris are made by them. I remember as i was a child and my family was to visit my grandmother, any time we asked grandma "what's up?" she used to answer "eshaklar doghob, famil chokhalib"  |
Posted By: Alborz
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 02:49
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Zagros, im not quite exactly sure, but I think "Azari" is pretty much Turkish, but richer in terms of vocabulary and even grammar than the turkish spoken in Turkey, since that has been degraded by unculturalism that engulfed the anatolians in early 20th century. anyway, the language is not Azari, azari was regional dialect of persian/pahlavi. Azari and Arrani languages were just dialects of pahlavi, and today the languages in both regions that are prominent are Turkish. anyway, I believe this "Bulldog" is politically or something motivated, I have read many of his posts. they smell fishy.
ZAGROS, regarding iran isnt a persian country. that statement doesnt make any sense since persian=iranian. Iran is a persian-speaking nation no question about that. Every body in Iran speaks persian. however, many iranians are bilingual like peoples of other nations. this was also the case back when Aran and shervan (now frm r. azerbaijan) were part of this nation.
just read what our lovely patriotic poet Mohammad Hossein Shahriar beautiful wrote:
 remember Zagros jaan, reading poetry by these men makes you understand a bit more ------------- "Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great 
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 09:37
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Alborz your correct about "Azari" being a different language.
The Turki of Azeri in Iran/Azerbaycan is very rich and they have many poets and literary figures to represent this.
Alborz
ZAGROS, regarding iran isnt a persian country. that statement doesnt make any sense since persian=iranian. Iran is a persian-speaking nation no question about that. Every body in Iran speaks persian. however, many iranians are bilingual like peoples of other nations.
Can't all the groups be Iranian like Persians aswell. Being bi-lingual is a great advantage.
Shahriyar is a great poet I agree,
"Heydar Baba, Salam" proved that he could write Azeri with equal elegance and power.
The poem became so popular and so many Azerbaijanis identiÞed so closely with it that many songs were written and many stanzas have been incorporated into proverbial expressions in everyday Azeri speech. "Heydar Baba" broke the cultural isolation and silence of Southern Azerbaijan. It can be said that it was responsible for reviving literary Azeri language in Iran. It quickly became known not only in Southern Azerbaijan but throughout the rest of the Turkic world and signaled a new chapter in the literary history in Southern Azerbaijan as the Azeri language at that time was not ofÞcially recognized nor publication ofÞcially allowed in Iran. http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/13_folder/13_articles/13_shahriyar.html - http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/13_folder/13_articles/13_shahriyar.html
Greetings, Haydar Baba Heydar Baba, when pheasants take flight, When the March wind strikes down the bowers, Heydar Baba, let your back bear the mark of the sun. Haydar Baba, may your brows be bright. Heydar Baba, my steps never crossed your pass. Haydar-Baba, when geese fly over at night, Kor-oghli's eyes recognize dark shadow, Mounts on his horse, Girat, and gallops away, Here I can not achieve my purpose so quickly! I can not sleep unless Eyvaz returns safely! 75- Haydar-Baba, give birth to brave sons, Break the necks of the wicked, Trap the wolves at the high way, Let the herd freely graze in the open, The sheep become fat! 76- Haydar-Baba, may you always be cheerful! Your mouth enjoy good fare! Your table be open to both friends and strangers, Tell the world that my poet son Shahryar! Has sorrow piled upon sorrow in all his days! Ey Iran Qesrini eliyle tiken,
Iran'dan hamise belalar çeken, Bulaq gözlerini dumanlar çöken, Perisan memleket, dertli memleket. Üstüne atesler yagan topragim, Muhabbet ocagim, ülfet ocagim, Ay menim hamiya bar verin bagim, Ah çekme, bulutlar yanar ahindan. Tarix az görmeyib qudurqanlari, Qanlini qan tutar, qandir onlari, Ey menim xalqimin qartal vuqari, Enme, öz zirvenin ucaligindan. Ne qadar ki yasar cahanda günes, Ne qadar ki sudan çekinir ates, Sarq adli üzüyün gövher qasi tek, Parlasin, Parlasin qoy, AZERBAYCAN. Read much more here
http://shehriyat-turkce.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_shehriyat-turkce_archive.html - http://shehriyat-turkce.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_shehriyat-turkce_archive.html
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 12:09
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I think it's better we clarify the difference of a language and a dialect. There are seven major dialects in Chinese, they are not mutually understandable at all, but still they are considered to be dialects rather than different languages. While Turkic languages are quite mutuably understandable , they are considered to be different languages. What is dialect then? If the two languages are mutually understandable, have similar grammatical structure, shouldn't they be considered as the same language with dialectal difference? No one can claim that Turkey Turkish and Azari Turkish have no difference, we know even Anatolian Turkish has many dialectical differences within itself. The same goes to any language due to the regional difference. Azari Turkish belongs to the Oghuz branch of Turkish languages together with Turkey Turkish. That means they are even in the same dialect, just with the regional difference. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 13:21
I can't agree with this, the differences between the two are very great. While Azeri people have a Pahlavi accent (this is very obvious how they speack persian or turkish, wich is very different to anatolian ) and they use old pahlavi words. I agree with you that azeri turkish is a turkish dialect, but i don't agree this dialect is similiar like the anatolian. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 15:33
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Maziar do you speak "Turki"? well then how can you disagree with people who do speak it and therefore are in a better position to make such judgements.
There isn't a dialect, its an accent, if you knew Turkish you would realise that you can turn on Azerbaycan Tv, go watch an Azerbaycan film, go talk with Azeri Turk with no trouble.
The Azeri accent is no different to Erzerum, Igdir, Kars, Elazig accent of Anatolia.
The "Oghuz" Turkish is a branch, Azerbaycan and Turkey Turkish is a part of this.
The differences are this.
Accent
Regional words, certain lexical differences
As I said, these two forms of Turki are closer than a London Cockney and a Newcastle Geordie accent, London Cockney is not a dialect of English, its a regional accent with certain colloquial differences. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 17:45
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Yes i speak Turki, but for sure not as good as you. My father is a Kurd and my mother an Azeri, i speak the both kurdish and Azeri Turki , but not very well becouse at home we only speak Persian. "The differences are this. Accent
Regional words, certain lexical differences"
yes, thats what i said too. |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 21:17
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Azærbaycanin Turki dilindæ danishabilmiram, ama hæmæ sözlærini fæhmæyliræm(anliram). Onlarin bir coxu hæm mænin Turki dilimi fæhmæylilæ(anliler). Azerbaycanin Turki dilinde konushamiyorum, ama bütün sözlerini anliyorum (fehmediyorum). Onların çoğu da benim Turki dilimi anliyorlar(fehmediyorlar) .
I cannot speak Azerbaijani Turkish. but I understand all. They also understand my Turkish language.
One thing:
If I don't have the knowlege of Turkish language in a superior level it is possible that I cannot understand some words in Azerbaijani Turkish as they cannot understand Anatolian Turkish if they replace Yoghurd /Qatiq with Persian Maast. That is the process. That is the reason why they cannot understand us. They forget their great-grandmothers' word and take Persian ones.
Azerbaijani Turkish singular pronoun mæn is not a loan word from Persian.
It is a direct descendent of old Turkic Bæn. It is a widespread change that B turns into M in Turkic languages.. Eg: Buz>Muz, Ice, Bin>Min Thousand
Infact Persian Mæn may be a result of Turkic influence on Persian.
So, Many Iranologists know well that the word referring to the First Singular Pronoun in old Iranic Languages is Azya or Aiziya as inherited by Kurdish as Ez which is also seen some other Iranic languages except Persian and closely related ones. Ez also a cognate to Latin Ego Germanic Ek Slavic Az etc...
It is more probable that Persian Mæn is a borrowing from Turkmen or Azeri Turkish or a form of IE me* which replaced Azya or Aiziya>Ez.
And That Azerbaijani Turkish have some Pahlavi words does not mean that Azerbaijani Turkish derived from Pahlavi. Today Persian lacks Âbdast, Tâba, Vayug which are washing for prayer, Pan, and Bride respectively. But they exist in modern Anatolian Turkish. That does not mean Turkish derived from Persian.
Azerbaijani Turks borrowed these words from Pahlavi before it disappeared in the region that is it.
Denying the very Turkishness of Azerbaijani Turks , you Pan Iranist will never avoid to distort the facts. I belive this.
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Posted By: Alborz
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2006 at 23:02
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okay kids, its not called "Azari turkish", but it is called Turkish. the Dialect in r. azerbaijan is closer to anatolian because soviet union tried to de-iranianize it, but turkish spoken by Azarbaijanis (and many other iranians) in Iran is more persianized and a different dialect of anatolian. however it is the same language in my opinion= Turkish.
anyway, alot of people in Iran know Turkish. either learned it in school or since they were kids from their parents.
"Tangriberdi", the discussion is about LANGUAGE not ehtnictiy or nationality. Denying the Iranianness of Azarbayejanis (and perhaps Arranis) is a concrete fact that you hold racialist and hostile attitudes.
I believe you are in the wrong discussion, check the forum again you degenerate, its called "Linguistics". if you cant read it, perhaps you need to study more on linguistics before you end up here
 .p.s. Just one more thing, Mohammad Hossein Shahriar, the great poet of Tabriz, who wrote beautifully in both Turkish and Persian proudly calls all Azarbaijanis "Aryans".
Tangriberdi, and please get a life.
oh and please dont give us more of your 'words' that persian "lacks". when you dont know anything, please keep your mouth shut. I cant tell that our Iranian friends here are laughing their stomach out. ------------- "Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 05:55
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Alborz, I hope you can change your way of discussion. This thread has been discussed in a very good manner and a very constructive way until you posted your first post with obvious provocation:
and personal attack, rather than discussing the topic:
Now, you are insulting all the participants of the discussion using terms like "Kids". Therefore, You have received official warning. Now we can come back to the topic: Tenriberdi gave a very good reason for the pronoun of "Man" to be Turkic. Qazaq "Men", Qirghiz "Men", Uyghur "Man" are used. Most importanly, Turkic grammatical structure follows subject and verb harmony. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 12:26
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The most of the languges in the world have been distributed by the process of assimilation,for example Turkish in Anatolia, Persian in west and South Iran.
we call Anatolian as Turks and South Iranian as persians because process has been completed.
The process of spreading Turkish in anatolia and azerbaijan should have started at the same time but in Azerbayjan has not completed, because Azeries need to speak Persian to find a job, this is a natural proccess of assimilation.It is a sad strory a culture is dying but it is a fact.
Nobody can blame Persians for this, because Azeries should calim their culture and they do not. Normal people do not care about the race and languge they need jobs, houses and health care , now Iranian government is a provider for azeries so they are assimilationg to Persian.
If they were living under ottoman empire they would be Turkish now, and many pan Iranist would consider them as turks.
I am an Iranian Azeri, a guy in the middle of assimilation proccess I do not say I enjoy speaking Persian, because I think Turkish is more beautiful, but I have to become a persian, to have a better life in Iran. This is even happened to the Persian themselves
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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 12:40
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shinai cant you be just Iranian azari? YOu dont need to get Persian if you want a job or something, just knowing persian is enough if im correct so you can behold youre azari identity also, cant you?
------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 13:16
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Day I,what happens is that, We need to leave Azerbaijan to find a good job, Mostly Tehran is the Taraget. Our Kids speaks both Persian and Turki language at the same time, to look more Tehrani, they act more Tehrani, they speak Turki only wit their parents and grand parents. They do this to look more local.
Parents try to Speak Persian more with kids to help them speak without accent, Those kids grow up in best case they get married with another azeri immigrant, thier kids will be fully persian these kids may only have only a Turkic name.
If it was not because of Turkish TVs I had forgotten Azeri (immagine my grand parents did not speak Persian at all, even one of them were able to read Shanameh very well), even now I speak more close to Turkish than Turki(Azeri). The death of a culture is very fast , it only takes 1 or two generations. I gusse it is a historical proccess, 100 years later the population of Azeri would decline to a small minority in Iran. The population already declined from 30 m to 20 m only in last 10 years, because 10 m azeris suddenly stopped calling themselves Turk.
It is also supported by the other countries, Turkey likes a stable Iran as her neighbor, so ignor the facts, Arabs think all Iranian are still zorasterians, and Westerner evene do not know what is the differences between Persians and Arabs. for a westerner a Turk is the citizen a of Turkey and a citizen of iran should be Persian, anyhow I donot blame anybody, assimilation is a historical fact happened almost everywhere
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Posted By: Alborz
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 14:58
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barbar, you dont even know me, so please dont judge me:
. Nationalism, derogatory remarks to national or ethnic groups, jingoism, bigotry, racism, political propaganda. (see appendix below
I would laugh at this accusation, but I'm just too shocked about it.
when did I express nationalism (and when tangi never did?), when did I made derogatory remarsk to any other national or ethnic groups? when was I racist? what makes you think i am doing political propaganda? is it because I revealed those with political propagdana? I would love to appeal you warning, but I think I remember why I left this forum in the first place.
good day, and have a nice life. ------------- "Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Posted By: Alborz
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 15:04
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shinai, there is no such thing as ethnicty as "azeri". its just a nickname to those who come from azarbaijan province: including its kurdish, armenian, and georgian speaking population. The term ethnicity doesnt or shouldnt apply to people of Iran (and people of mid-east in general). ethnicity is only relavent to isolated areas such as kurds, and tribes such as Bakhtiaris. sometimes iranians try to differentiate themselves from arabs racially and even culturally. although they have some good points, but in reality iranians, arabs, and turks are of the same kind. Iranian and Turkish culture is almost identical, because they both are of Islamic civilization, havent you noticed that our music sounds alike, expect the language?
its a fact however, that turkish is a declining language in Iran, taken over by English. times change, persian used to be spoken all the way in India, but its taken over by english. its how the world changes. however, turkish wont disappear forever in Iran, because it is Not banned. not even hebrew is banned in Iran.
Azarbaijanis are no the integerated ones in Iran, shinai, they are the ones who integrated all of Iranians to this nation. remmeber it was Shah Ismail who re-established Iran as a nation. so when you say "azeri culture is dying", is wrong. infact, azarbaijan is the culture of whole of iran. other iranians have been assimliated to this culture for more than 500 years.
just a little history.
p.s. DayI, nice to see you here again. anyway, later and if I dont respond, is because im never comingn to this messed up forum ever again. ------------- "Who so shall worship Ahura Mazda, divine blessing will be upon him, both while living and when dead" Darius The Great
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 16:42
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Shinai the process of globalisation is making the world an ever smaller place, Tork in Iran know their not the only Turks and know that speaking Turki can be a benefit as speaking Persian can. The thing is the process you describe naturally can create tension, a sense of threat and negative ctions which can spark movements. This is what the U.S especially is trying to support. They want Azeri in Iran to feel oppressed causing Iran to percieve them as a threat and repress any freedom of their identity.
This has happened countless times in many areas, centrallised states respond quite harshly to what they percieve as threats to the unitary identity.
However, this only deepens the problem and makes it worse, giving those who actually want to create a problem more and more ammunition to do so.
However, if the percieved oppressed groups rights are given the problem can be averted from the start. Without anything to play on, those who want to use the situation to create chaos cannot as they have nothing to use.
This scenario has been played in Turkey for years.
Now unfortunately ists moving to Iran.
The mass protests in Iranian Azerbaycan earlier this year are an example of this and shouldn't be taken lightly.
Hopefully Iran will not fall into this trap, currently most Turks in Iran I know and most material shows that they do feel a part of Iran and don't want to seperate all they want is more rights like teaching language, more freedom in exxpressing identity and so on. These don't seeem big issues but they can become huge problems if not addressed. If Iran granted some of these demands it could avert a serious head-ache in the future, keep its unity and not let outside influences create division which they will try so very hard to do.
They are going to attempt anything to divide Iran and use anyone they can to further this, this is a critical time, hoipefully Iran will deal with it cleverly.
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 20:52
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Azeri Turkish and Turkish are very similar,and are virtually the same languages. During communims the Soviets sent to Bulgaria Azeri Turks to indoctrainte us, Bulgarian Turks into communism, they did this obviously because the languages are very similar. My cousins in Sweden (a mixture of Macedonian, Kosovar and Bulgarian Turks) regularly tune into Azeri TV and watch it, obviously because they can understand it. Turkish is a very diverse language, it is spoken very differently in the Balkans than it is in the Anatolia, and the regional variations of the Turkish dialect are great. Azeri Turkish is no more different than Anatolian Turkish, than Rumelian Turkish is. They are all in the same Turkish group. As for Azeri Turks in Iran, I have not met many so I cannot comment. THe only Azeri Turk I met was quite shy about speaking in Turkish, did not get a chance to speak to him much. I got the impression he did not understand much though. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:03
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For a comparsion between Bulgarian Turkish and Azeri Turkish you may have a look at the following clips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2elC16faSo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2elC16faSo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC9ddGGXiWM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC9ddGGXiWM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7gOWtascJE I feel like Bulgarian Turkish is closer to Azeri Turkish, than to Istanbulite Turkish - it is harsher and rougher, whereas Istanbul Turkish is too soft. Does anybody else get this feeling? ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:07
------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2006 at 21:10
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Ok here is another one by Reyhan, half in Turkish, half in Bulgarian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVGayCfHH1w - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVGayCfHH1w ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 23-Oct-2006 at 09:02
Ooooh OYNA OYNA 
This is the famous Rumelli Hawa?
Bg_Turk do you have any "Bulgarian Turku", what are the famous one's? ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:37
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I do not think Roumelian Turkish which always follows the offcial Turkish linguistşic pattern in Turkey can be compared to Azerbaijani Turkish which is divided into two political dialectal areas, South one of which has always been in effort to keep in touch with Anatolian Turkish and the other(North) followed a rather and relatively independent period of process due to Russian modelled linguistic policies. In this context we have to accept that South Azerbaijani intelligentsia is prone to use Anatolian-made words for the recent concepts. For example Guney for South Quzey for North. Both are not Azerbaijani native words but borrowed from Anatolian by Southern Azerbaijani.
All in all what I mean is that we should compare Anatolian Turkish and Azerbaijani Turkish in order to prove our claims. Because Balkan Turkish is nothing but a dialect continuum of Anatolian Turkish which is a dialect continuum of Common Turkish, ie Turkic languages group.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 17:02
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Tangriberdi, can you watch Azerbaycan Tv and do you understand? if you do then it cannot be called a dialect as without studying Azeri Turkish one can understand them and Azeri Turki speakers can understand Anatolian Turkish, the difference is accent with regional words and some lexical differences. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:51
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This a good site about Azeri language afshar accent there are mp3 samples
http://nomadplace.com/afshar/ - http://nomadplace.com/afshar/
I was wondering how you guys would understand this one, please let me know.
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Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:54
| Also if you look at the pictures these people look like Persians and Afghans, These people are nomads they are not supposed to be mixed with others too much. All oghuz nomads I know Shamlus, bayenders, Khelaj , are same, like Iraians |
Posted By: bleda
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 19:10
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i understand very easy azeri languagaes.
------------- |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 20:12
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Persians don't all look the same, there are blonde haired Persians, Black Persians, Turkic looking Persians, Afgans arn't all the same there are dark, light, White looking, Asiatic looking Afgans. Turks don't all look the same......
Basing assumptions on people's look and subjective views about how certain people look has no place or credibility in determining people.
Language is a far more important factor, the language is mutually intellegeble. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 21:12
| Bulldog, how much you could understand from sample of Afshar Turkic accent? |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 21:20
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I listened to the mp3 files, and it sounds totally understandable, although quite funny http://www.gospelrecordings.com/catalog/audio/C08140A.mp3 - http://www.gospelrecordings.com/catalog/audio/C08140A.mp3 The guy sounds like one of the old guys in my village who only has one tooth in his mouth :lol: I noticed from the audio file the following variations: EN TR BG-TR AF-TR he wants istiyor isti istyiri told dedi di dedi came geldi gyadi geldi compulsion mecburiyet mecburiyet mecburluk mine benim byam menim hope that helps. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 21:23
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Guys could you tell what are these meaning:
Gamish,(bull)
Fereh,(chiken)
bece,(chiken)
juje,(Chiken)
qirqi (Sahin)
uqab,(eagle)
pispisa(rotch)
pisik.(Cat)
yuz.(chita)
Peleng.(leopard)
bebir.(Tiger)
tazi,(Dog)
all are animal names , do you see anything common with your languge? I guess these words are basic words. Shouldn't be same in closely related languages?
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Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 09:56
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Guys, I have opened this topic to discuss the relationships between close languages and the grammar and the phoinetics and the lecsicon of Azerbaijan Turkish language. Yes, Azerbaijan Turkish, I am not going to call it Turkish only, even if it is very similar to Turkey Turkish. Becouse, before everything, I live, I have lived and I will continue living in this country and this is my 1st motherland, and and it stands before Turkey, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan or Uyghurustan for me. I am going to fight and die first of all for Azerbaijan, and then for the rest of Turkish countries. So why I should not mention its name in its language???
Guys, of course, the language of a nation is directly connected to its nationality. But I ve opened the topic not to bring again the Persian-Turkish stuff up, I ve openeded it to have a real discussion. What I believe is, once more, Iran Turks do speak Turkish, Azerbaijan Turks do speak Turkish and Turkey Turks speak Turkish. So we all have been living with Persians, Georgians, Armenians, Arabians, Russians darn it, with many others, and we are all sharing a huge part of our cultures and it is our destiny to live together and to be good to each other, so what are those dirty thoughts about? Why we need it? Lets at least in one topic think and write beautiful thinks, at least write guys, even u hate.
But u know what, even if i do not like others, even if i do not like persians, then in any case, against another enemy, i will be ready any time to rise for challange and fight with persians shoulder to shoulder. Not becouse we are rivals to each other, or have been throughout the history, not becouse we both are muslims, but becouse for at least 1000 years we have been living together, borrowing words, cultures, salt and bred from each other every darn day.
I have seen those discussions for months and years, lets continue like gentlemen.
Thank u.
Respectfully Kerimoglu. ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 12:34
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Shinai are you Qasqai or Afshar? from the Fars province?
The "mp3" is of Qasqai/Afshar Turks in the Fars province which is one of the most southern geographical regions in which a historic Turkic community inhabit.
I've never got to hear their accent before, wow its got a very high mutual intellegebility, I though due to its location it would have been the most different. Thanks for the post.
Kerimoglu once again great post,  I totally agree------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 13:45
Dear Shinai, you are mistaken if you think the names of the animals are the basic words. In Uyghur language we use persian "Gosh" for meat instead of "et". Don't you think meat should be more basic than any animal names for a Turkic people? I'm giving this example just to show that even very basic nouns can be loaned from other language. Basic words in a language is the basic verbs, basic numbers, basic pronouns. Now please list the above words in that Turkic dialect, and I'll tell you the respective Uyghur Turkish ones, and you will the difference or similarity. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 18:07
Gamish, found in local Anatolian dialects as Gamish Jamish, Gavmish Jamiz etc...
Juje, found in Standard language as Civciv(read as Jiv jiv) and juvje or juvjev in local forms
Pisik, pisi, pishik pishe are all Anatolian forms. Standard language uses Kedi.
Tazi is a standard word for hound, the dog taken to hunt animals.
The rest should be of Iranic words.
I master Azerbaijani language broadcast on Azerbaijani TVs in such a big percentage of 70-80% of the whole conversations. I miss some thematic words and terminological phrases,mostly of Russian or Persian or Arabic origin. The main structure of Azerbaijani Turkish is just the same as Anatolian dialects and reflects anatolian dialectal words. In Azerbaijani Turkish the verbs like söykenmek erinmek tapmak, yumak aparmak and words like it, pisik bildir, bala, ushag kobud are in use and all thse words pure Anatolian words found in local dialects , Unfgortunately Standard Istanbulite Turkish exclude these neautiful words and many and many that ties us Turks together.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 18:32
Tangriberdi, is that why in Turkey people when calling cat's say, Gel Pisi Pisi?  and when they call they rub their thumb and finger saying Pisi Pisi Pisi, how interesting.------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 13:16
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Yes exactly, pisi just means cat
Gel pisi pisi means come here cat cat( duplication of the noun makes the noun having a diminutive meaning.
So cat cat means kitty.
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Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 16:06
| Bulldog, my Dad side are Afshar Turkmen form west Iranian Azerbiajan, city of Urmiah, and my mother side are from somewhere called Karadag, which I donot have any idea where is that. the Afshars in Azerbaijan talk simillar to the other Azeries. |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 19:29
| Shinai, are you of Turkish origin? That is good. it is appreciable that you can say without any consideration that you are an Iranian Turk , being proud. Many of Iranian Turks seem to be shy to say that They are Turks proudly and frankly, due to Iranian governments' assimilation intending policies. Congratulations. I congratulate you for that you have the very awareness of Turkishness along with loyal citizenship of Iran. |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 06:20
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Ok, besides Eagle word, I understand and we use normally all of them in Azerbaijan. Examples:
Pisik ala boyundu, isi yaman oyundu, el-uzunu yuyandi....
The Cat has white neck, he is playing all the time, he is washing his hands and face... ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 28-Oct-2006 at 08:34
In Anatolian Turkish the sentence comes to be:
Pisi ala boyundu, ishi yaman oyundu, el-yüzünü yundu.
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Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 11:59
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Dear Tangriberdi( Taryverdi in Turki), why should I be ashamed of being from a turkic speaking family, in Iran people respect Azeries, I tried it myself in my last trip to Iran, I only spoke Turki( Azeri) with everybody, in Tehran people were very polite to me. and almost everybody were from an Azeri origin.
assimilasion of Turks in Iran is not because of a policy it is because of a historic process happens in any country to make a nation, It happens in turkey between Turkish Kurds, now most of them preffer to speak Turkish instead of Kurdish, I think nobody force them. This is the case in Iran. This is sad but it is happening. The process so far absorbed almost half of the Turkic speaking Iranian, the Population Of turks has changed form 50 percent to 20%.100 years ago Iran defenitely was a Turkic country , now it is Persian, 300 years later it could be Turkic again who knows?
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 12:07
In Uyghur it goes like this: Mushuk aq boyundur, ishi haman oyundur, qol-yuzuni yuyardur. ------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 14:15
It is intersting , because the same word game/saying ( but I do not know its real meaning) has two forms
1: Pisi ala boyundu, ishi yaman oyundu, el-yuzunu yundu
This form goes paralel with azerbaijani.
2: Pisi ak boyundur, işi yaman oyundur , elini yüzünü yuvandır.
This form goes with Uyguhur Turkish.
After a short search in my sources I came to conclusion that the fist that is paralell with Azerbaijani is used in Kars Ardahan Igdır Van Erzurum, Erzincan Elazıg Urfa etc... That is Eastern Turkey which is partially Azerbaijani linguistic area. So it drops the last -r in -dir, is But as an affect of Anatolian Turkish it used this form of -dir mixed up with past suffix -di.
The Second one is found around Aegean region and Mediterranean region of Turkey. And seems to reflect the correct form of the saying or whatever it is. I do not know what it is exactly.
Because I am in Istanbul, marmara region.
As I said before, Anatolian Turkish dialects vary much and some of their phrases and sayings are unintelligible for us.
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Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 07:42
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I totally agree with Tanriverdi ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |