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Pope's gaffe?
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JanusRook View Drop Down
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pope's gaffe?
    Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 17:30
Mosquito, as one of the more religious people here I have to still say love that joke. LOLThumbs Up
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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 17:32
Originally posted by Mosquito

Islam in the past was a great religion but nowadays, lets face it, it is religion that has degenerated into madness.
 
In times of crusades Muslims were way more enlighted than Christians but today....  so many of them are pervert maniacs...
 
 
 
Relax man...Relax...
 
A group of angry faces you saw on Polsat Channel can not account for the many of 1 billion people.
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 17:41
Originally posted by Mortaza

I guess this is because we don't give a damn about what the leaders of our religion say.
 
why do you think,we give a damn to what bin laden do or say?(Plus bin laden dont represent islam, but pope absolutely do represent christianity)
 
 
 
 
Mortaza,
 
1-Benedict XVI does not represent the Christianity in ''whole''. He is the head of the Vatican. That is to say, the Catholic world
 
2-Christians in Europe does not care about him. I have met hundred of European Christians,yet not met one single religious one so far.
 
Do you know the condom crises between the EU and Vatican? Please make a search on Google.
 
As I said before we put a higher value on Benedict XVI than the western EuropeansConfused.  So his remarks has frustrated Muslims.This is what angry Muslim fellowers fail on
 
3-Your point about Bin Laden is true. Same for others whom Christians consider as representing Islam. And this is the point where believers of  Christianity   fail to recognize.It is  the fact that there is no clergy class in Islam..So what one imam says does not bind whole community.


Edited by TheDiplomat - 17-Sep-2006 at 17:43
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malizai_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 19:48
OMG the generalizations are beyond belief.
 
Just a couple of truths:
 
  • A lot of Christians ARE also vocal about wrongs werther committed in their name or not.
  • The extremists who go around burning churches or kill Christians because of their deep rooted bigotry are the lowest forms of creatures, who are opportunist awaiting an excuse. They do not form a percentage, but are a pain in the a***.
  • The pope still thinks that Muslims are of low IQ, that is y he has apologized for the offense his comments have caused but not for the comments themselves. Borderline dishonesty.
  • There are clerics who know nothing about Christians yet are keener than most to inform others about them, and popes who pretend to know or even worse not know anything about Islam.
  • Those who don't care what their leaders say are not followers of those leaders but hundred of million others are.
  • Many prophets led armies.

Justinian

"Just a question; didn't mohammed (sp?) lead military campaigns and at one point execute 700 Jews?  I bought a translated copy of the Quran but have yet to read it.  My view is that Islam has as its prophet a military and spiritual leader which is completely different from christianity.  I think this is a contributing factor to the conflicts between the two religions.  I am a lutheran (christian) and hold christ (christianity) higher than mohammed (Islam) because christ didn't lead military campaigns. "
 
Well, Justinian u have managed to say what u want without causing strife, unlike the pope.
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Posts: 1207 		  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 20:34
The Pope should have known better. He should known by now that Islam is a very fragile religion and that something as small as a comment can turn an ant hill into a mountain.
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 21:07
Originally posted by malizai_

OMG the generalizations are beyond belief.
  • The pope still thinks that Muslims are of low IQ, that is y he has apologized for the offense his comments have caused but not for the comments themselves. Borderline dishonesty.
Well, to stay religious one can't exceed a certain maximum limit of IQ, so he is right in a way, though this strikes back at him too of course.


Edited by Reginmund - 17-Sep-2006 at 21:08
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 21:14
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by malizai_

OMG the generalizations are beyond belief.
  • The pope still thinks that Muslims are of low IQ, that is y he has apologized for the offense his comments have caused but not for the comments themselves. Borderline dishonesty.
Well, to stay religious one can't exceed a certain maximum limit of IQ, so he is right in a way, though this strikes back at him too of course.


Where did you get that conclusion from?
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 21:57
Good question, I sometimes amaze even myself.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 07:26
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by malizai_

OMG the generalizations are beyond belief.
  • The pope still thinks that Muslims are of low IQ, that is y he has apologized for the offense his comments have caused but not for the comments themselves. Borderline dishonesty.
Well, to stay religious one can't exceed a certain maximum limit of IQ, so he is right in a way, though this strikes back at him too of course.
 
Is this y 65% of al-qaeda are university graduates? According to an asia times report i think.
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 07:48
Originally posted by Jay.

The Pope should have known better. He should known by now that Islam is a very fragile religion and that something as small as a comment can turn an ant hill into a mountain.


But how does a person make a guess to their fragility. It seems to be getting more & more without following any laws.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 09:20
The religion of Islam is not fragile. Those who tend to talk about the negative aspects of some of its followers may be though. It's a religion with followers of many shapes, sizes and mentalities.

People amazingly could make a guess and accusation on anything. Even call a billion people fragile.

Back to the main topic. If the pope wanted to have genuine dialogue then he could have said so without taking a nasty shot at another religion. Is he an expert on Islam?

About the historical fate of the 700 Jews, its been discussed before and if you read the various threads in the past you would have known that Muhammed left the fate of them to the decision of one of their own.

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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 09:33
The religion of Islam is not fragile. Those who tend to talk about the negative aspects of some of its followers may be though.
When they say fragile, I believe they mean that the followers tend to get offensive over things Westerners find very minuscule. Though I'd find those who act in violence more fragile then those who protest in a more  peaceful way as they don't show signs of it getting the better of them and shows more strength and unity.
Back to the main topic. If the pope wanted to have genuine dialogue then he could have said so without taking a nasty shot at another religion. Is he an expert on Islam?
I'm going to say I agree with you hear, which I do. But I see that some people on here think a point I was trying to make was one to defend another side, which it wasn't.
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 09:38
but was he really  taking a shot seko? i just cant see anything more than a clumsily used (not so sensative quote) and a few very sensative protesers who most propably havent read the whole speech and just heard parts of the quote.

Add in a some ironic violence,  populist demand for an apolgy...wait another apology um.....not enough we want more than that apology, mix it in with the western media giving the protesters more airplay then they should, add some flour and i can bake you an issue.Smile




Edited by Leonidas - 18-Sep-2006 at 09:39
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 11:17
Well, many differencens between Christians and Muslims are obvious.
 
When you say joke about christians, pope, Jesus (whatever) most of catholics (or christians) laugh (if joke is good).
 
When you say joke about Islam many muslims want to cut your head off, kill your familly, burn your house, crash your car and rape your cat...
 
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Posts: 666 		  Quote Loknar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 12:10

I would say there is a huge problem in the Muslim world with that train of thought. And I wont subscribe to 'it's only a few muslims who do it'. It is true that most muslims arent terrorists but for most Muslims in the middle east, they would riot in the streets over things they shuoldnt. Remember the danish cartoons? That epsiode really shook me. I, from then on, abandoned the thought process that 'its not all muslims'.

 
I firmly believe that the vast majority of muslims would deny me my freedom of speech and expression to burn the koran and draw offensive pictures of mohmmed.
 
I would never do those things, in fact i deplore it. But if somebody were to portray Jesus as a terrorist, while i would hate it, I would still relent and say it's their right to do it.
 
No most muslims arent terrorists, but most would deny the common westerner their freedom of speech. Which is why the 2 worlds arent compadable.


Edited by Loknar - 18-Sep-2006 at 12:11
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Posts: 215 		  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 13:17
About Pope's comment and freedom of speech.
 
Freedom of thought and religion:
 
"There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."
[2:256]
 
Freedom of opinion:
"Proclaim: "This is the truth from your Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve...."
[18:29]
 
About those who uses Islam for their ill actions:
 
"He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed."
[3:7]
 
"Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains."
[2:79]
 
And as for me, I value the comments of some of the AE users (such as Northman, Seko, Omar al Hashim, etc.. ) much more than the comments of some Pope Big smile
 
 
 
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Posts: 237 		  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 14:07
Originally posted by Mosquito

Pope didnt offend anyone. Like everyone else he can use freedom of speech. If you remember not long time ago we were discussing about denish cartoons and eralier about the death of Theo van Gogh.
 
Just look at those creazy muslims, their angry faces, fanatic sight, bloodhungry hands. They are ready to kill any of us together with our famillies and home pets just in case if one of us has verbally offend them.
Islam in the past was a great religion but nowadays, lets face it, it is religion that has degenerated into madness.
 
In times of crusades Muslims were way more enlighted than Christians but today....  so many of them are pervert maniacs...
 
Remember muslim reaction when Al Kaida  destroyed WTC? It was euphoria... people were on the street looking as happy as if they got World Cup in soccer.
 
You know that is very clever and un-prejudiced to generalise muslims that way..keep up the good work
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 14:10

edit: accidently hit the post button too soon. Embarrassed



Edited by JanusRook - 18-Sep-2006 at 14:21
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Reginmund View Drop Down
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 14:11
Originally posted by malizai_

Is this y 65% of al-qaeda are university graduates? According to an asia times report i think.


So you're saying Al-Qaeda members are representative for Muslims?
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Posts: 237 		  Quote The Guardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 14:13
Originally posted by Loknar

I firmly believe that the vast majority of muslims would deny me my freedom of speech and expression to burn the koran and draw offensive pictures of mohmmed.
 
I would never do those things, in fact i deplore it. But if somebody were to portray Jesus as a terrorist, while i would hate it, I would still relent and say it's their right to do it.
 
 
 
Yes-a vast majority of muslims-christians, and jews-even hindus would deny you of that sort of freedom of speech, so you shouldn't focus on only one sect, that would be making an unbelivably large mistake
 
 
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