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Pope's gaffe? |
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Justinian 
Chieftain 
King of Númenor Joined: 11-Nov-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1399 |
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 Topic: Pope's gaffe?Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 01:11 |
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Just a question; didn't mohammed (sp?) lead military campaigns and at one point execute 700 Jews? I bought a translated copy of the Quran but have yet to read it. My view is that Islam has as its prophet a military and spiritual leader which is completely different from christianity. I think this is a contributing factor to the conflicts between the two religions. I am a lutheran (christian) and hold christ (christianity) higher than mohammed (Islam) because christ didn't lead military campaigns. But of course that is my opinion and I don't get upset when people disagree with me on that. I think it comes down to other people believing in something just as much as you do only what they believe is different. Peace on this earth will never exist until there is only one religion left or no religions at all. Sad but true.
On a side note I wouldn't underestimate the fact that the muslim world is infinitely poorer and therefore less educated than the christian world. Generally speaking it is the ignorant who are the religious zealots. An example is that the muslims I have met on this forum have acted in as civilized a manner as the christians (depending on the christian sometimes more civilized). If only we could control our emotions.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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Omar al Hashim
King 
Suspended Joined: 05-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5697 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 03:09 |
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Thank you Reginmund. You said every thing I wished to say. The context of those verses is clear, don't fight unless your forced to, but if you are fight properly.
Because the media doesn't report and you don't listen. Not because it doesn't happen. They just aren't interested in saying anything good about Islam |
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph 
Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2728 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 10:25 |
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If there is any huge mass protests, whether peaceful or violent that can compare to the ones we see all the time, then show me. I honestly haven't heard of any huge protests calling for the resignation of a top Cleric, all I ever see are their followers that seem to number in the hundreds who are chanting for him.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Guests
Guest 
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 11:18 |
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Cleric in Islam are not appointed to a mosque as such. They are added as necessary. So if you build a local mosque typically they hire local people to lead the prayers/ They may get a stipend but usually they are not professional clerics as such.
As for the others, they are not clerics but theologians. Who work for their organizations. So to ask for their resignations would be fruitless.
First know, then critisize.
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2728 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:21 |
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And yet Muslims were calling for countries to apologize on the behalf of newspapers. By law the news papers were allowed freedom of speech. Their freedom allowed them to portray Muslims as bloodthirsty terrorist, then you have these guys, "Clerics", who are very popular that just give off that image of aggression and not peace. Thats my point, get up in arms about those who claim to be a Muslim and who are viewed for the world to see as one! Because if you want to end the stereotype, then you have to stop the reasons for it.
I'm not saying to stop the radical Islamic terrorists like Al Qaeda, but to protest those who are allowed to walk in public and give lectures on how violence is the answer towards others using Islam as a guise. Start at the roots, then branch out is all I'm saying.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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The Guardian
Shogun 
Joined: 12-Jul-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:45 |
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Muhammed was declared war upon as soon as he came out in the ope-he had to wage war
Crusades? The library in Egypt that was burned down? Spanish inquistion? Ring any bells?
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It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
&nb |
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The Guardian
Shogun
Joined: 12-Jul-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 12:47 |
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Muslims all around the world are doing a good job on showing tht pope he was wrong...a curch was bombed down I think lately....."Take that Benedict!! Who's violent now?!?!"
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It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
&nb |
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Seko
Emperor 
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 14:31 |
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Good point Guardian. Just as some of us don''t approve of the Pope's misguided intentions we certainly do not approve of the bombing of churches in return. By defending a belief many others show how disfunctional they can be. I definitley object to violent reactions by moslems. |
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Mortaza
Tsar 
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 14:58 |
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Every once in awhile we will hear from a Muslim who comes on tv from the community in the US saying this isn't what their beliefs are about, which I believe. But I never see mass protesting anywhere on a large scale that you see with cartoons and the Pope's words.
We dont see any mass christian mass protesting about pope too. It is interesting all muslims should mass protest because of some maniacs, but christians should not protest, If leader of their religion attack other religions.
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Yiannis
Sultan 
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2329 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:08 |
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I guess this is because we don't give a damn about what the leaders of our religion say.
Neither do we protest if someone attacks our religion. If some allegation is untrue, it cannot hurt you and you can always debate it instead of becoming berserk.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:17 |
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I guess this is because we don't give a damn about what the leaders of our religion say.
why do you think,we give a damn to what bin laden do or say?(Plus bin laden dont represent islam, but pope absolutely do represent christianity)
Neither do we protest if someone attacks our religion. If some allegation is untrue, it cannot hurt you and you can always debate it instead of becoming berserk.
Yeah, instead of going to berserk, you just attack other countries, and kill some innocent women and children.(Should we continue to generalize each other?)
Edited by Mortaza - 17-Sep-2006 at 15:19 |
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2728 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:26 |
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My point flew right over your head. If they are going to protest about people saying bad things about them, then why not protest those who call for violence and claim to be Muslim? It's these kind of people that create the stereotypes that seem to make the Muslim regions inflame into a inferno.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:34 |
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That was not a religious matter and didn't happen over cartoons or someone throwing words around.
Realy? tell this to bush.
Christians also don't protest, get violent over cartoons, start burning things, and making demands. The Muslims seem to.
True christians generally talk at stormfront.
My point flew right over your head. If they are going to protest about people saying bad things about them, then why not protest those who call for violence and claim to be Muslim? It's these kind of people that create the stereotypes that seem to make the Muslim regions inflame into a inferno.
Not excatly true, If pope dont create any stereotype about christianity, I am sure these people wont create any strerotype too.
So If a steretype was created, It is not because of muslims but It is because of minds which accepted these stereotypes.
Plus none of these people represent islam(Muslims dont accept bin laden as their leader remember?) as whole, but pope do.
is this realy so much difficult to understand? |
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:37 |
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LOL sorry, I just read a newspaper. And It says.
Kardinal Julian Herranz said, Pope talk in the name of God. So pope dont just present christiand but also jesus, god and holy spirit?
It looks like even your gods attacked muslims.
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Mosquito
Caliph
Suspended Joined: 05-Aug-2004 Location: Sarmatia Online Status: Offline Posts: 2537 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:43 |
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Pope didnt offend anyone. Like everyone else he can use freedom of speech. If you remember not long time ago we were discussing about denish cartoons and eralier about the death of Theo van Gogh.
Just look at those creazy muslims, their angry faces, fanatic sight, bloodhungry hands. They are ready to kill any of us together with our famillies and home pets just in case if one of us has verbally offend them.
Islam in the past was a great religion but nowadays, lets face it, it is religion that has degenerated into madness.
In times of crusades Muslims were way more enlighted than Christians but today.... so many of them are pervert maniacs...
Remember muslim reaction when Al Kaida destroyed WTC? It was euphoria... people were on the street looking as happy as if they got World Cup in soccer. Edited by Mosquito - 17-Sep-2006 at 15:49 |
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2728 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:47 |
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I honestly hope your joking that Religion is the motivation behind it all.
[/quote]
is this realy so much difficult to understand? [/quote] I'm finding it is for you.
Now I personally know they don't represent Islam, I said that many times already, but people who don't know anything about Islam which can be said to be the majority of the west will believe stereotypes because of these people. These people only feed those who draw offensive cartoons.
Then again it's a never ending cycle since the protests usually seem to become violent which just make the stereotypes seem true for people... |
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Mortaza
Tsar
Joined: 21-Jul-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 3711 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 15:58 |
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So your saying it wasn't planes that crashed into our buildings that caused the war?
I honestly hope your joking that Religion is the motivation behind it all.
So you are telling me Allah ordered bin laden to crash your buildings, and He attacked your building only because of religious reason. Not any relation with israel? It is interesting you are talking about bin laden religion, but not bush religion.
True Christians? What defines a true Christian? Then again you might have to discuss this with a Christian as I'm not one.
I mean. You are right. Christians dont go berserk. They talk and talk at stormfront.
Read what I said about Clerics. There are popular clerics past and present who call for violence.
Well, I dont remember any famous men(I respected)that called for killing christians.
and Islam has no cleric. Our imams are not more special than next muslim. Imam is someone who lead praying, nothing more.
Then again it's a never ending cycle since the protests usually seem to become violent which just make the stereotypes seem true for people... True, but pope is not someone who have no idea about what is islam.
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Mosquito
Caliph
Suspended Joined: 05-Aug-2004 Location: Sarmatia Online Status: Offline Posts: 2537 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 16:00 |
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There was a joke about it:
Pope died and went to heaven. At the gates of Heaven ST. Peter welcomes him and askes:
- WHO ARE YOU?
-Im Pope
- WHO?
- Pope, bishop of Rome
- Iv never heard about it,
-im a governor of God on earth, im his voice and I represent him on earth - said Pope
St. Peter told him to wait at the gates and went to God and told him about the Pope.
"I dont know about any such guy but ask Jesus, maybe he knows who is that Pope." said God and St. Peter came to Jesus and told him the story.
Jesus said that both God and St. Peter should wait and he will go to talk with the pope.
After 30 minutes Jesus comes back to God and St. Peter. He cannot stop laughing, falls on the ground and laughs. After some time he finally was able to speak and says to God and St. Peter who are watching him with curiosity:
-" Guys, do you remember that fishing club i started 2000 years ago"
-yes - answered God and St. Peter
- so - Jesus said- they still exists and even got billion members
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Ponce de Leon
Caliph
Lonce De Peon Joined: 11-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2967 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 16:39 |
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2728 |
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Posted: 17-Sep-2006 at 17:18 |
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What I've been saying is why don't Muslims protest against those who are able to walk freely in their countries, such as one Cleric in Egypt, and use Islam as a political tool for violence.
Maybe it happens, I don't know, I never see any protest. But I find it funny that cartoons and words that portray a Muslim as violent causes enough stir to make violence, yet a Religious man in the Muslim community calls for it publicly and nothing is done, atleast as far as I know.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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