Muslims and the Caste System

All these castes existed in the whole of India, including the so called old pakistan also.  Omar you are right, this is because of the hindu influence.

Outsiders point to the caste differences & claim fidderentiation, Doesn,t this exist in every society in the world.

In my home town the fighting between the sunnis & shias is so intense that Hindus have to be called to guard the tazias as unbiased outsiders.

The other communities claim superiority on different lines colour (black vs white), turk, arab, mughal etc.. vs the locals, invaders vs the natives etc.. one tribe vs the other.

In india we don't have that haphazard system, Indians organised that in a formal manner & legitimised it.

And all the Indians who were converted to other religions, muslims & christians followed that system & continue to do so.

It may be very surprising but even Indian Jews have become a part of this caste hierarchy.

If anybody claims that his community doesn't differentiate on the basis of birth, he would be plainly lying.

The poor & low caste, untouchable muslims in India are fighting for the  legal recognition of this caste system in India but sadly, are not able to do so due to the opposition & continued oppression form the Muslim uppercastes.

I don't believe in  the caste system, and caste atrocities are truely disgusting but TeldeInduz to say that the caste does not exist in Pakistan, and exists amongst muslims only in India is simply not true. You need to read current affairs more. There was a recent case in September of Gazala Shaheen, a graduate from near Multan who was raped because "her Uncle was seen with someone of a higher caste." The police said there are hundreds of cases like this in Southern punjab.

Edited by Vedam - 12-Oct-2006 at 08:40

Originally posted by TeldeInduz Originally posted by Vivek Sharma All these castes existed in the whole of India, including the so called old pakistan also.  Omar you are right, this is because of the hindu influence.   Caste does not exist in Pakistan and if you look at history it never once did exist in Pakistan because it is an invention of the East and central Indians. Caste does exist in Pakistan, It always existed, it was an invention of the Pakistanis.   Outsiders point to the caste differences & claim fidderentiation, Doesn,t this exist in every society in the world.   Name the other societies in the world that have a caste system and why they are caste systems. Differentiation exists in every society in the world & is maximum in the still feudal pakistan. In my home town the fighting between the sunnis & shias is so intense that Hindus have to be called to guard the tazias as unbiased outsiders.   This is sectarian violence, not castism. Sunnis and Shias can have the same jobs, the same social status. Sectarian is alos a form of differentiation, More blood has been shed by the shias & sunnis fighting each other than any other sect. The other communities claim superiority on different lines colour (black vs white), turk, arab, mughal etc.. vs the locals, invaders vs the natives etc.. one tribe vs the other.   EVERY community claims superiority, that's the difference. A Pathan considers himself superior to the others, a Balochi then considers himself superior to a Pathan, this is the difference between the Shudras who have been brought up to believe they are impure, and the other castes in India that all consider them to be inferior and impure. You can hopefully see what I'm pointing towards here. You are right telde friend, Yes I can see the difference, the Shias are brought up in beliving that the sunnies are unholy & the Sunnis are brought up believeing that everybody else in unholy.   In india we don't have that haphazard system, Indians organised that in a formal manner & legitimised it. And all the Indians who were converted to other religions, muslims & christians followed that system & continue to do so.   It may be very surprising but even Indian Jews have become a part of this caste hierarchy.   To an extent this is true of some Muslim Indians - but they are surrounded by castism so it is not surprising they follow it to some degree. You are right again telde friend, this is true of the historical Indian Muslims, which includes the so claled Pakistani muslims If anybody claims that his community doesn't differentiate on the basis of birth, he would be plainly lying.   In Pakistan you can grow up in a poor family, and become the richest man there. You can change your social status in other words. It's the same here, in fact better, for we don't have the feudal system in place here as in pakistan.   The poor & low caste, untouchable muslims in India are fighting for the  legal recognition of this caste system in India but sadly, are not able to do so due to the opposition & continued oppression form the Muslim uppercastes.   LOL!! The poor Muslims want to be discriminated against is what you say LOL LOL. The lower caste, untouchable muslims who face severe discrimination form the hands of their upper caste muslims desperetly want them to accept the fact that they are being discriminated, for it would lead to them getting equal rights, but the hypocritical uppercaste muslims who dominate all their media, social hierarchy etc.. simply refuse to grant them what they so rightfully want.

And I openly challenge you to tell me why are the muslims fighting for being included as BC & OBC if Islam doesn't have a caste system.

And also challenge you to tell me why Shias & sunnis are not allowed in each others mosques so often.


Got more challenges to give, But friend, first you need to answer my question as to how you claim to know more about the original tipu then the original tipu himself.

i accept the challenge pal,yes you ar right muslims are fighting to get reservation in obc and bc and thats stands for other backward class and back ward class. it is to do with class and not with caste.today i am may be poor but tomorrow i am become rich.class is mobile but caste is rigid and immobile.

now shias and sunnis is not caste system it is like the catholics and protestants.

amd i know more about tipu than  you because he is a muslim and even i am a muslim.he was against caste sustem even i am against caste system.
he supported the untouchables even i support the untouchables.i dont see why they must not get reservation of 33% in medical colleges and IIM's.
down with brahminism.long live india and indians

No, A moth will never become a butterfly.

Originally posted by Telde Class differences do exist in Pak. Also it is not feudal anymore. The last feudal place that was being supported from the outside has now gone with the elimination of the sardars.

Not quite true. Feudalism is alive and strong in the non-tribal regions of Pakistan. It is less strong, but still there in India.

Zamidars probably would maintain a fair few guards, but probably unlikely anything that could be considered an army. When I was living in Karachi a house up the street from us had 16 guards, 8 day 8 night, all armed with automatic shotguns and rifles.

I was thinking more on the lines of a rich zamidar owning land with peasants working on it. It used to be the case that the zamidar would hold all the peasants ID cards, although this may (or may not) have changed when Musharaf re-issued all the cards.

Id Mubarak to all Muslim brothers.
AP Singh

 Pakistani Muslims claiming to be Rajput, Brahmin, Khatri and Jatt seriously impede their "We're not like Indian Hindus" campaign. 

Again the ignorant, knowledge challenged, rabble rousing due to the inferiority complex.

Do some homework & find out what caste is. At least you will not look like a intellect-challenged person in an intellectual topic.