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Leonidas
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Topic: Racism towards Gypsies Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 05:02 |
here here Constantine
I have to admit the one group that gets the criminal tag are the gypsies. Just like Achilles, i use to hear stories of how they always use to got moved along by the police and that they are theives. Maybe if they were allowed to settle and be accepted that they would have a chance to do better, was my retort to such stories when i grew up and new better.
This is a social issue that (from what i hear is getting slowly addressed in greece) in general (the whole balkans) is one of neglect and bigotry. They get treated like black sh*t in the czeck republic, yet can earn good dollar in many parts of former yugoslavia, (i hear this from a bosnian) as entertainers/musicians.
There is a very tenacoius cycle of dicrimination here, that just having the opportunty to get educated isnt going to break, it takes a more than that.
shouldnt this move into intellectual discussion?
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Socrates
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 12:19 |
Originally posted by Giannis
Here in Greece people dislikes gipsies and for another reason, child abuse, every morning that i go to work i see barefooted children begging for some euro, while a grownup can be seen in a nearby car drinking his coffee and ''supervising'' his or hers employes.
I can't say that all gipsies are ''child abusers'', but 9 to 10 child beggars are gipsies.
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it's very similar in serbia...They won't allow their children to go to schools, because they can make more money as baggers.There's also somesort of ''despisal''(sp?) of gypsies towars education-I saw this educated gypsy on Tv-he said that gypsies consider him as a ''non-gypsy'' because he's highly educated...
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"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock
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Menumorut
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 16:44 |
I think the Roma people (they dont called themselves Gypsy or tzigani) suffers because they dont have a homeland and this constitute a psychological motif to have not much enthuziasm for work, study etc.
Also they feel very frustrated and this gives them a feeling of hatred for the peoples in the contries they live. And this hatred makes them wishing to always cheat and look down upon other people and that makes them unlikable.
By other hand, they feel that their lives have not great achievements and for that they turn to make many children, trying to convince themselves that they realised something in their lifes. And that is exasperating the Romanians. Some Roma women reach 10-18 children.
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bg_turk
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Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 18:40 |
Originally posted by Paul
BBC News story on Gypsies in Europe
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Up to half-a-million were killed by the Nazis - but their plight is often forgotten and they remain "demonised". |
Amazing! Half a million gypsies have been killed by the Nazis, and hardly anyone knows about it. This simply reinforces my conviction that the recognition of a crime as a Genocide is all about how powerful the group advocating such a recognition is.
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 02:26 |
Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves?
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Leonidas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 06:17 |
Thats such a ignorant comment Gargoyle poverty breeds poverty
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:12 |
Originally posted by Gargoyle
Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves?
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Exactly.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:22 |
Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves?
wrong, there are some rome who changed his life totally, educated well, have fine job ext. But They dont call themself as Gypsy anymore.(just guess why). And of course, other people dont see them as Gypsie too. So your generalization was wrong.
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:33 |
As i dont know any Gypsies what do they look like, Im thinking dark skinned, dark hair an dark eyes??????
Or do they look like Euros???
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:37 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
wrong, there are some rome who changed his life totally, educated
well, have fine job ext. But They dont call themself as Gypsy
anymore.(just guess why). And of course, other people dont see them as
Gypsie too. So your generalization was wrong. |
That is a good question. Is there a difference between someone who is of
Roma ethnicity and someone who is a gypsy? Could it be that "gypsy"
refers to an itinerant lifestyle, while many Roma have since left
behind such a lifestyle?
If gypsies then are taken as representing all Roma, then no matter how
many Roma settle down and take up jobs they can still be labelled and
criticised for their ancesters' lifestyle, which clearly isn't fair.
Edited by Constantine XI - 06-Jun-2006 at 07:54
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Leonidas
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:40 |
They look darker, but only generally speaking and im guessing this also varies in what part of europe one is talking about.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:51 |
That is a good question. Is there a different between someone who is of Roma ethnicity and someone who is a gypsy? Could it be that "gypsy" refers to an itinerant lifestyle, while many Roma have since left behind such a lifestyle?
If gypsies then are taken as representing all Roma, then no matter how many Roma settle down and take up jobs they can still be labelled and criticised for their ancesters' lifestyle, which clearly isn't fair.
Infact main problem was this. Criminal were always accepted as gypsies.
If I dont remember wrong, at ottomans time, there were a famous gypsy community at balkan mentioned beatifulness of their homes.
Also Mehmet 2 used some gypsy stone masonaries at dardenellas.(even now sometimes, They call themself as son of Fatih.) Still that city have a large gypsy population, but I dont remember any criminal problem(larger than other cities) at that city.
I also remember an other gypsy community exiled from istanbul(by ottomans), because of prostitutes.
Now I am sure most of people, only will remember gypsies as prositutes, not with stone massonaries, or some people who have realy beatiful homes.
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 08:19 |
Originally posted by bg_turk
Up to half-a-million were killed by the Nazis - but their plight is often forgotten and they remain "demonised". | Amazing!
Half a million gypsies have been killed by the Nazis, and hardly anyone
knows about it. This simply reinforces my conviction that the
recognition of a crime as a Genocide is all about how powerful the
group advocating such a recognition is. |
Oblivion is the final step of genocide. Only when we forget a genocide happened, it has fully succeeded.
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Komnenos
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 08:31 |
Originally posted by Gargoyle
Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves?
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We have just established that 500.000 ( or there abouts) Gypsies got murdered by Nazi-Germany, nevermind all the others that were killed in less organised genocides over the ages, and you come out with pathetic comments like that ,supported by your equally enlightened friend "machine".
Is it only obvious to me, that without the existence of mindless prejuduces like that, genocides like that on the Gypsies ( or the Jewish people, or any other......) would not be possible?
I don't know what makes people step over from verbal racial hatred to a violent one, but a bet it's only a small step.
As we say in Germany: "Wehret den Anfngen!
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 09:52 |
Komnenos,
I agree with you, what the Nazis did to the 6 million jews, and 5 hundred thousand gypsies is terrible. Also, don't forget the 6 million polish and the 25 million soviets and the other millions of people who died in WWII. It's amazing how the German people actually voted Hitler and the Nazis into power.
Whether you belive my post is a pathetic comment or not is your problem. I personally have no problem with any race in this world. That's what is so great about living in Australia, you meet and make freinds with people from nearly all Nationalities. What I do have a problem with, is Criminals, Anti Social Behaviour, and People who think that the World owes them a Living. Anyone in this world, if they are prepared to work hard and make an effort, can become succesful and live a happy life. It is only a question of how badly they want it. Poverty is no excuse.
I have never met a person from Eastern Europe who likes gypsies. But I am quite sure that if there was a change in behaviour, on the part of the gypsies themselves, then peoples attitudes would change. I agree with previous posts, there are gypsies out there that do have their act together and are decent people,(I have even met some) but unfortunately they are a minority. This is not a Race issue, it is a Behaviour issue.
Edited by Gargoyle - 06-Jun-2006 at 09:58
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:06 |
What I do have a problem with, is Criminals, Anti Social Behaviour, and People who think that the World owes them a Living
@Gargoyle. Mmmmm that almost sounds like Australia in a nutshell. You could have said one word to describe the above DEROS.
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:10 |
It's amazing how the German people actually voted Hitler and the Nazis into power.
@ Gargoyle. Whats amazing about it???? You, me and everyone else would have, if we were in Germany during that time.
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:31 |
One of my best friends in my chilhood was gypsie. There was a TV series "Brett and Dany" with a white man and a black one, I was the white he was the black.
For Gargoyle
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Menumorut
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 14:39 |
I think a good Roma guy doesnt hide his nationality . I've meet such guys.
The ones who try to hide their origin are bad guys.
In Romania I think that there are ~4 milions Roma and Romanian-Roma metises. They are spread in all cities and most of the villages but the biggest concetration is in Bucarest and Southern Romania.
Is sad that there are very few Romanian new borns in Bucarest, most babies of Bucarest are from Roma and metis families.
Roma people usualy dont like to be of this ethnicity. They want to hide their origin, to have a light colored skin and that, together with the metising process, make that most of the gipsies in Romania to not have a dark coloured skin.
In fact most of Romanians consider as Romanian people who actualy are Roma. This was also my case, after years I heard that some of my
acquaintances or public personalities that they are half Roma.
But also there are pure Roma people, with dark skin and Indian morphology of the face and body.
Edited by Menumorut - 06-Jun-2006 at 14:43
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Giannis
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Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 17:32 |
Are Roma people and gypsies the same race?
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