Racism towards Gypsies
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Printed Date: 09-Jun-2024 at 14:09
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Topic: Racism towards Gypsies
Posted By: Decebal
Subject: Racism towards Gypsies
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 19:44
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This topic is inspired by the recent conversations in the Balkan Beauties thread, where some Bulgarians were completely outraged at Gypsies being considered representative for Bulgaria. I have a personal viewpoint on this, because I grew up in Romania, the country with the largest gypsy population in the world, and I have to say that along with the vast majority of my fellow Romanians, as a child I was very racist towards gypsies. I used to hate them, and I would get very mad if foreigners would call them Romanians. A long while ago, I emigrated to Canada and since then I became a lot more tolerant towards every culture and tried to eliminate racism from my life and my outlook. Which sooner or later had to include acceptance of the gypsies. Which to my shame, has been slow in coming, even though I no longer feel that I am racist towards anyone else, such as Africans, Asians or the people closest to gypsies, Indians. For myself, they stand alone as a people apart, for some reason that I can't explain.
I just find it hard not to think, when people point out Romanian gypsies who emigrate abroad and take part in organized crime, that "they are not really Romanians, they're just gypsies... what do you expect?" And I've sen this kind of attitude countless times from fellow Romanians or Eastern Europeans in general. I suppose it's been ingrained in us.
I find that their situation in Europe is very similar to that of black people in the US: many of them are caught in a cycle where society marginalizes them, they are unable to get a good education and so turn towards a life of crime, which makes the rest of society marginalize them further. To make the comparison even more accurate, in Romania, many gypsies had the status of slaves until the 19th century.
Do you people think that it is possible for racism towards gypsies to stop and for them to ever be fully integrated in European societies? ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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Replies:
Posted By: Achilles
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 20:34
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Ithink in todays day and age, yes it is possible. people seem to be
more open-minded and compasionate then they were a few years back, but
that is just my view. ------------- Der Erste hat den Tod, Der Zweite hat die Not, Der Dritte erst hat Brot. Fur immer frei und ungeteilt -always free and undivided- |
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 20:45
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Hi,
Congratulation for your fight against the racist inside you! Maybe you'd be interested to hear the story of the integration of the gypsies (gitanos) into the Spanish society. During the 18th c. they were trully out-casted and very poor as well. The enlighted elite felt only disdain for that backwardish population. Only at one point Napoleon's France invaded the territory, thus what ever was French was poorly regarded by the patriotic Spaniards, including the French dress code they used for decades. The only clothes that weren't French at all was the gypsises' costume. In less then two years the fashion was overwelmingly worn by every body (see the Goya's paintings). As so, the gypsies found their position within the Spanish society; they are still highly particular but they perfectly fit in the general landscape. Maybe this will occur in Romania and Eastern Europe. M. ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 20:46
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I saw/heard that first time when there whas a murder accured because of MP3-player in belgium, the murder whas a polish but the polish media and people called him as "not real pole" but a gypsie. Then last week there whas a "gypsie" debat in my city Gent at vreemdelingencentrum (baargiekaai), i thought it will be interesting because also myself got the feeling from the polish media that gypsies where somewhat the "unwanted people" or "niggers" of europe, yeah so i thought they are somewhat what the "black" people where in USA in the 50's. So all in all i've been there, they debated about problematics of gypsies in Europe, how they systematically genocided and discriminated by some governments self. I couldnt listen further when a slovak gypsie showed his ID-cart where whas a remark wich meand he whas a gypsie also showed some documents that "skinhead" organisations where covered/protected by the media and the governments self todo freely what they wanted against those "gypsies" without being punished. But also i want to hear the other part of it, so may i ask Decebal what caused you to hate gypsies? What whas the real reason behind of it? To answer your question, I think the racism in eastern and western europe will be ended when they learn to accept "other" people as a human being too, they must get over their "inferior complexes" and a good education. ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 23:31
Funny this should come up, yesterday I walked down to the local supermarket, located on an estate of warehouse shops and sure enough in the car park was a load of caravans, junk all over the place, an oil barrel with a fire in it and half a dozen wild kids running riot. Immediately I thought, ohno gypsies, and diverted around the camp.
 here's a few interesting links,
BBC News story on Gypsies in Europe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4486245.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4486245.stm
BBC comprehensive history of gypsies site [seriously recommend checking out the photo gallery]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/romany_roots/history/index.shtml - http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/romany_roots/history/index.shtml
A site tracking the modern day persecution of gypsies in the UK
http://www.travellersupport.org.uk/evictions.htm - http://www.travellersupport.org.uk/evictions.htm
Britain's most famous gypsy
 ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Dawn
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 01:24
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I too never really understood the european hatred of gypsies. Hope someone can help inlighten me. The last discussion I had about them was with the Polish fellow I worked for at the time. It didn't make much sense. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 03:31
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Well its pretty obvious decebel why the Gypsies stand out, you grew up around them.
As for your last statement Decebal Black people in the USA can get an education if they want one. Its the exact same as in Australia, the Aboriginals are paid to go to school yet they dont because they dont want an education, most would rather bludge off the goverment.
Probably the same with Canadas natives.
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Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 04:31
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I think its a vicious circle. Gipsies follow a different way of life.This would be normal centuries ago,but it condemns them to poverty. Poverty gives birth to illeteracy , crime and deception. Illeteracy,crime and deception give birth to prejudice,discrimination and racism. Racism assures maintenance of poverty and lack of education for these people. And the circle goes on... well,i am not sure for the solution. Is it possible these people to be fully respected,educated and not isolated by society but in the same time to preserve their unique culture? ------------- |
Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 06:42
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Gypsies way of life is a nomadic way of life. How is possible to send your children to school when you are travelling every now and then?
Here in Greece people dislikes gipsies and for another reason, child abuse, every morning that i go to work i see barefooted children begging for some euro, while a grownup can be seen in a nearby car drinking his coffee and ''supervising'' his or hers employes.
I can't say that all gipsies are ''child abusers'', but 9 to 10 child beggars are gipsies.
And this is not a phenomenon of poverty, they are propably the only people that exchanges gold for goods.
-------------  Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 08:02
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There are a numer of parallels between the persecution of the Gypsies in Europe and that of the Jewish people.
Both have been throughout centuries the most identifiable ethnic minority living in Central Europe, and as such been subjected to periods of persecution in periods of social crisis, be it economical, in times of war, or in times of natural disasters, like the plague etc. And then as now, the incapability to explain or to deal with such crisis leads to blaming the most vulnerable parts of society. Both Gypsies and Jewish served as as the target of periodical mass hysteria turned into violence, or later in organised genocides as in Nazi-Germany when up to 800.000 Gypsies were murdered.
But the similarities go further, both people's evident incapability to integrate into existing societies has been a mixture of firstly to attempt to preserve their ethnic and cultural identity, and secondly the refusal of the "host" society to let them integrate.
The often mentioned fact that Jewish people were over represented in the financial sector is of course the result of the a medieval restriction that would not allow Jewish people to take up any other occupation than that of money-lenders or changers. The same with the Gypsies, society only allowed them to do jobs that no one else would do, and that suited their itinerant life-style.
About both people there has been a multitude of rumours, prejudices and out right lies, that have been constantly perpetuated and still are proving to be impossible to eradicate.
As with Jewish people or Homosexuals, a society's or an individual's capacity to show tolerance against an ethnic minorities as the Gypsies is an indicator how far progressed and enlightened they are.
Tito's Yugoslavia's attempt to give its Gypsy population full equal rights amongst the other ethnic groups of the country, and actively supporting and promoting their cultural activities (Newspapers, Radio stations, schools, etc) was certainly a proof that it can and should be done.
That the newly "democratic" countries in SE Europe have taken the relationships between Gypsies and the majority population back to the Middle Ages, is somewhat indicative for the upsurge in nationalism and xenophobia on which their identities are partly built on.
------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 08:11
first they tought he was north-african ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 08:13
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"That the newly "democratic" countries in SE Europe have taken the
relationships between Gypsies and the majority population back to the
Middle Ages, is somewhat indicative for the upsurge in nationalism and
xenophobia on which their identities are partly built on." you talk about "newly "democratic" countries in SE Europe" just like we talk about gypsies. very sad, sorry ------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 09:13
Growing up over there, I was always told that I should beware of gypsies, that they steal and don't work. I've had some bad experiences with them myself. Many of the bullies in my neighborhood were gypsies, and I have gotten beaten up a couple of times by them, for no better reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or for not having maoney on me when they tried to mug me. I know several people who have gotten pickpocketed by gypsies. Most of the beggars are also gypsies.
Overall, there is this perception, perhaps warranted, that most of the crime in that part of the world is perpetrated by gypsies. They have a serious image problem, and the children of the people from Eastern European countries are taught to mistrust them from early on. ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
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Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 09:17
Many gypsies in Eastern Europe can get an education too, if they want it. But statements such as "if they want one" miss the point. If the black or gypsy children grow up in abject poverty and if they have to work to support their family from early on, it makes it much harder to stay in school. If when they get out of school, they cannot get a good job because they are discriminated against, then can you really blame them for not thinking that school is worthwile? ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 09:43
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The stereotypes against gypsies being lazy, dirty and that they steal are very common, but let me give you the other side of the coin. I know a few gypsies that are not leading a nomaidc lifestyl but are settled farmers, many of them are kind, educated and respectful, but they are still discriminated because of their skin color. Here is an instance of discrimination against a gypsy woman. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4372689.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4372689.stm
------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 10:20
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And about discrimination: "he European Court of Justice has criticised Germany for failing to transpose the EU’s Employment Framework Directive (2000/78/EC) on time. In a recent judgment, the Court found that Germany had failed to create the proper legal framework for equal treatment on the basis of religion, disability and sexual orientation. The EU legislation – dating from 2000 – should have been introduced into national law in all EU Member States by December 2003. Germany must now take the necessary steps to comply with the Directive" http://ec.europa.eu/comm/employment_social/fundamental_rights/news/news_en.htm - http://ec.europa.eu/comm/employment_social/fundamental_rights/news/news_en.htm discrimination is everywhere and germany is not better than romania http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=8&ObjectID=10126345 - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=8&ObjectID=10126345 ------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Achilles
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 12:26
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when i was a child I was always told stories about how when the Gypsies
would come through the villages in the old country, they would
stealanything and everything that they could get there hands on, even
babies. I am not sure how true this actually is, but at the time i
whole heartedly believed it (becuse it was my greatgrandmother and
grandmother that told me the stories). I read somewhere that the gypsies of the past (maybe not the present) had the belief that they were god's chosen people and thus had the right to take anything that they wanted with no consequences. I'm not sutre how acurate this is either ------------- Der Erste hat den Tod, Der Zweite hat die Not, Der Dritte erst hat Brot. Fur immer frei und ungeteilt -always free and undivided- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 14:11
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I do not like people who have still closed societes. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 01:05
The Aboriginals dont work, its a rare site. If they dont think school is worth while i couldnt care less. The oppurtunity is there, they get government funding etc and if they dont take it its not my problem.
I also dont think that Aboriginals are as hated as much as Gypsies are, in comparison. I was never taught to hate Aboriginals, i dont hate them its just i dont care what they do, its not my problem if they dont succeed.
Decebal if you had not moved to Canada would you still hate Gypsies??? ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 01:31
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I think the situation between Australian aboriginals and European
gypsies is quite different and the two situations should not be treated
as being on the same level.
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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 05:02
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here here Constantine I have to admit the one group that gets the criminal tag are the gypsies. Just like Achilles, i use to hear stories of how they always use to got moved along by the police and that they are theives. Maybe if they were allowed to settle and be accepted that they would have a chance to do better, was my retort to such stories when i grew up and new better. This is a social issue that (from what i hear is getting slowly addressed in greece) in general (the whole balkans) is one of neglect and bigotry. They get treated like black sh*t in the czeck republic, yet can earn good dollar in many parts of former yugoslavia, (i hear this from a bosnian) as entertainers/musicians. There is a very tenacoius cycle of dicrimination here, that just having the opportunty to get educated isnt going to break, it takes a more than that. shouldnt this move into intellectual discussion? ------------- 
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Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 12:19
it's very similar in serbia...They won't allow their children to go to schools, because they can make more money as baggers.There's also somesort of ''despisal''(sp?) of gypsies towars education-I saw this educated gypsy on Tv-he said that gypsies consider him as a ''non-gypsy'' because he's highly educated... ------------- "It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week" Bob Rock |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 16:44
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I think the Roma people (they dont called themselves Gypsy or tzigani) suffers because they dont have a homeland and this constitute a psychological motif to have not much enthuziasm for work, study etc. Also they feel very frustrated and this gives them a feeling of hatred for the peoples in the contries they live. And this hatred makes them wishing to always cheat and look down upon other people and that makes them unlikable. By other hand, they feel that their lives have not great achievements and for that they turn to make many children, trying to convince themselves that they realised something in their lifes. And that is exasperating the Romanians. Some Roma women reach 10-18 children. -------------  |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 18:40
Amazing! Half a million gypsies have been killed by the Nazis, and hardly anyone knows about it. This simply reinforces my conviction that the recognition of a crime as a Genocide is all about how powerful the group advocating such a recognition is. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 02:26
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Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves? ------------- |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 06:17
Thats such a ignorant comment Gargoyle  poverty breeds poverty -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:12
Exactly. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:22
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Gypsies bring all this hatred upon themselves. Maybe if they got off their backsides and actually did something to the benefit of their community, to show people " hey look! we don't deserve this stereotype" then attitudes would change. How do you help a people that won't help themselves?
wrong, there are some rome who changed his life totally, educated well, have fine job ext. But They dont call themself as Gypsy anymore.(just guess why). And of course, other people dont see them as Gypsie too. So your generalization was wrong.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:33
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As i dont know any Gypsies what do they look like, Im thinking dark skinned, dark hair an dark eyes??????
Or do they look like Euros??? ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:37
That is a good question. Is there a difference between someone who is of Roma ethnicity and someone who is a gypsy? Could it be that "gypsy" refers to an itinerant lifestyle, while many Roma have since left behind such a lifestyle? If gypsies then are taken as representing all Roma, then no matter how many Roma settle down and take up jobs they can still be labelled and criticised for their ancesters' lifestyle, which clearly isn't fair. ------------- |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:40
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They look darker, but only generally speaking and im guessing this also varies in what part of europe one is talking about. -------------
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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 07:51
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That is a good question. Is there a different between someone who is of Roma ethnicity and someone who is a gypsy? Could it be that "gypsy" refers to an itinerant lifestyle, while many Roma have since left behind such a lifestyle? If gypsies then are taken as representing all Roma, then no matter how many Roma settle down and take up jobs they can still be labelled and criticised for their ancesters' lifestyle, which clearly isn't fair. Infact main problem was this. Criminal were always accepted as gypsies.
If I dont remember wrong, at ottomans time, there were a famous gypsy community at balkan mentioned beatifulness of their homes.
Also Mehmet 2 used some gypsy stone masonaries at dardenellas.(even now sometimes, They call themself as son of Fatih.) Still that city have a large gypsy population, but I dont remember any criminal problem(larger than other cities) at that city.
I also remember an other gypsy community exiled from istanbul(by ottomans), because of prostitutes.
Now I am sure most of people, only will remember gypsies as prositutes, not with stone massonaries, or some people who have realy beatiful homes.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 08:19
Oblivion is the final step of genocide. Only when we forget a genocide happened, it has fully succeeded. |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 08:31
We have just established that 500.000 ( or there abouts) Gypsies got murdered by Nazi-Germany, nevermind all the others that were killed in less organised genocides over the ages, and you come out with pathetic comments like that ,supported by your equally enlightened friend "machine".
Is it only obvious to me, that without the existence of mindless prejuduces like that, genocides like that on the Gypsies ( or the Jewish people, or any other......) would not be possible?
I don't know what makes people step over from verbal racial hatred to a violent one, but a bet it's only a small step.
As we say in Germany: "Wehret den Anfängen!” ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 09:52
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Komnenos, I agree with you, what the Nazis did to the 6 million jews, and 5 hundred thousand gypsies is terrible. Also, don't forget the 6 million polish and the 25 million soviets and the other millions of people who died in WWII. It's amazing how the German people actually voted Hitler and the Nazis into power. Whether you belive my post is a pathetic comment or not is your problem. I personally have no problem with any race in this world. That's what is so great about living in Australia, you meet and make freinds with people from nearly all Nationalities. What I do have a problem with, is Criminals, Anti Social Behaviour, and People who think that the World owes them a Living. Anyone in this world, if they are prepared to work hard and make an effort, can become succesful and live a happy life. It is only a question of how badly they want it. Poverty is no excuse. I have never met a person from Eastern Europe who likes gypsies. But I am quite sure that if there was a change in behaviour, on the part of the gypsies themselves, then peoples attitudes would change. I agree with previous posts, there are gypsies out there that do have their act together and are decent people,(I have even met some) but unfortunately they are a minority. This is not a Race issue, it is a Behaviour issue. 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:06
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What I do have a problem with, is Criminals, Anti Social Behaviour, and People who think that the World owes them a Living
@Gargoyle. Mmmmm that almost sounds like Australia in a nutshell. You could have said one word to describe the above DEROS.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:10
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It's amazing how the German people actually voted Hitler and the Nazis into power. @ Gargoyle. Whats amazing about it???? You, me and everyone else would have, if we were in Germany during that time. ------------- |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 12:31
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One of my best friends in my chilhood was gypsie. There was a TV series "Brett and Dany" with a white man and a black one, I was the white he was the black. For Gargoyle ------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 14:39
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I think a good Roma guy doesnt hide his nationality . I've meet such guys. The ones who try to hide their origin are bad guys. In Romania I think that there are ~4 milions Roma and Romanian-Roma metises. They are spread in all cities and most of the villages but the biggest concetration is in Bucarest and Southern Romania. Is sad that there are very few Romanian new borns in Bucarest, most babies of Bucarest are from Roma and metis families. Roma people usualy dont like to be of this ethnicity. They want to hide their origin, to have a light colored skin and that, together with the metising process, make that most of the gipsies in Romania to not have a dark coloured skin. In fact most of Romanians consider as Romanian people who actualy are Roma. This was also my case, after years I heard that some of my acquaintances or public personalities that they are half Roma. But also there are pure Roma people, with dark skin and Indian morphology of the face and body. ------------- |
Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 17:32
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Are Roma people and gypsies the same race?
------------- Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 17:59
Basically yes, although it seems a bit more complicated than that. The term "Roma" applied for all Gypsy people is not without controversy amongst the Gypsies themselves. I believe there are some tribal differences, however most of the Gypsy community in Central Europe call themselves "Roma" and the term is now in Germany, at least, used as the official designation of their community, as the word "Zigeuner (=Gypsy)" is understood as insulting. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 18:24
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With one exception.
Irish Gypsies are not Roma and only took to the road about two centuries ago. As far as I know they are only found in Britain and Ireland.
Generally speaking Irish gypsies have a worse reputation than Roma ones, see the movie Snatch.
Also there's a lot of prejudice towards them by Roma gypsies who are very snooty towards them and think of them as imitation gypsies. A couple of months ago in the uk there was a big confrontation when a groups of Roma and Irish gypsies moved into adjacent campsites, shooting broke out and someone was killed. ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 18:30
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I also heard that gypsies are of Egyptian origin (egyptian-gypsy), it makes some sense. ------------- Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.
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Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 18:32
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Irish gypsies make headlines most romas dont, also the demeanor of the former is one that radiates volatility and caution, a personal observation. Although i admit i haven't met any Roma. ------------- |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 18:46
The Roma, without any doubt, stem from the Indian sub-continent, and not from Egypt.
Europeans, not knowing where they came from, called them "gypsies" as that was probably the most exotic location they could imagine, in the same way the bird "turkey" got its name in the English language. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2006 at 19:18
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Gigi, one of my best friends said: "They're talking too much!!!". He's a G/rR or whatever but most of all he wants to be considered a human being. Just like we others do. He's bearing a darker skin than mine but he surely wears a pale complection when compared to my frien Badinga, from Congo.
Are they a bunch of outlaws? Some of them certainly are, bug that doesn't mean that we are saints?.
My opinion is that they are just misunderstood, and they are bearing this lot for some centuries. I guess it's time for us to share that lot too.
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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 07:57
| I started a thread on their origins http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12543&PID=228830#228830 - |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 08:12
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Gypsies are great, they live a non-materialistic life, love singing, dancing, the arts and are real contributers to culture. Their laid back, relaxed approach to life is the way it was meant to be. We just can't tolerate them because were trapped in the system, like controlled robots who believe that success = money and working 9-5 like programmed robots taught not to question and think about the system just accept it and condemn anybody who doesn't. Gypsies are free, we are trapped, that's the reality and all this racism and bigotry against them stems from not being able to accept differences. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 10:43
My niece wants a fairy tale story book. Where did you get that, I want to buy it for her.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 11:03
Common don't you agree with just a little of it?------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Achilles
Date Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 20:17
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That was probobly the funniest thing I have read in a long time.
------------- Der Erste hat den Tod, Der Zweite hat die Not, Der Dritte erst hat Brot. Fur immer frei und ungeteilt -always free and undivided- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 00:57
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So gypos are wandering nomads who steel and Roma Gypsies are the ones from India???? ------------- |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 01:41
They certainly are renowned for their metal working skills. Gypsies are a fascinating people. A migratory nomadic people who moved into an area and managed to co-exist with the original inhabitants. Thats pretty rare. Many roma words and language is understandable to Urdu speakers. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 08:34
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Yes but what i mean Omar is have they mixed in with the European population like the Jews. ------------- |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 14:40
I think is fascinating when somebody from far read about them but it's not very pleasantful to meet or live among them. I live in a neighborhood dominated (like most of Bucarest perhaps) by them and this is my opinion. Nobody says something else. They are no more migratory, lost their language. Some are rich, live in palaces (new built residences or old residences bought in the select areas of the cities) but the most are very poor and live very unigienical. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 14:57
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They certainly are renowned for their metal working skills.
That is true, there were weapon masters at ottomans and They were also stonemasters. Techonolgy destroyed most of their jobs.
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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 15:05
Yeah, they still visit my village to sell metal stoves like this one  ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: mico5bei
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 20:39
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Irish gypsis are trouble makers!
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Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 20:51
In greek there are two words. "Tsigani">atsigani>athigani>a(not)+thigano(touch) possibly the german "zigeuner" is connected to this. and (more insulting) "Gyfti">egyftii>egyptii (Egyptians) =gypsies probably by the color of their skin-also "gyfti" were called the swordsmiths.(cause of the dirt makes their skin darker) I wonder about the etymology of the name they use to describe themselves:Roma Does it mean anything in their indian/pakistani dialect, or it is connected with Rome again somehow: Romans=citizens of the city of Rome Romji=Greek orthodox / Romani'a=Byzantium Romanians=Wallachians,Moldavians,Transylvanians Sultanate of Rum=Seljuks of Asia minor Rum=name of greek cypriots and greek of Constantinople by the Turks Holy Roman Empire -----etc etc etc (well..a prestigious name!  )------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 07:12
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A sample of Gypsy music from Bulgaria. It is in the Gypsy language, which I do not understand (does anybody here understand it?). http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2516788779559649045 - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2516788779559649045 ps: which is the city in the background? |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 11:52
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The "Egyptian" nick was gived them because they pretended that are Egyptian Lords in 15th century when started to travell in Western Europe.
The ethnonime "Roma" have no connection with the city; in their language means man. The gipsies from Western Europe were also called vlachs or roumans because most of them spreaded from the teritory of the Wallachian (Romanian) principates (where they arrived in 14th century). ------------- |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 07:00
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What happened to them finally ?
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Timotheus
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 23:46
| Very interesting. There are often articles in Radio Prague about gypsies and I have found it interesting that racism is probably a bigger problem for some European countries than it is for the USA! |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 01:17
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Surely there is more of racism in europe than US. Intersting fact is that the original gypsies in india have intermingled with the loals so much that now they are undistinguishable.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Achilles
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 20:02
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True Vivek, as long as your parents or grandparents didnt come from Europe (mine did). Racism tends to be learned. When i was kid i was always told about the "evil" gypsies and how they would come into the villages and steal chickens, clothes, cattle, and babies. Not sure how true this is, but for awhile i must admit i was racist towards gypsies. not so much anymore, although i am alittle suspicious. Where i live there is a Gypsy trouppe that once every year comes to one of the richer parts and steals tons of stuff. One of them pretends to have a heart attack or other medical emergency, while the others go into the house and wipe them clean ------------- Der Erste hat den Tod, Der Zweite hat die Not, Der Dritte erst hat Brot. Fur immer frei und ungeteilt -always free and undivided- |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 19:24
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One, can read my story about the Gypsies at another thred on this site. ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Gerry57
Date Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 06:18
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If it wasn't such a serious subject I would laugh. The Gypsies would located in Russia where they traveled from town to town. They would dance, have little-rig games.Their most skilled trade was lying, stealing, and cheating No one was against the Gypsies.As with other groups of people.Their actions bring the Racism toward them.No country or regular Joe's/Jane's teach their children to hate them.They bring this type of actions on themselves!!! ------------- Gerry O'Brien |