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Topic: the term "istan", from who does it originate? Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 05:15 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).
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Now i know the word Istana or Astana we use in Malay is from Persian.. cool..
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Mortaza
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Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 06:33 |
hehe
That is excatly what I mean.Turks had already known greek langauge and city of istanbul(remember before conquest there was a mosque in istanbul), that is not a story like kangarou.
I think cyprus theory is more probable.
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Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 13:51 |
Originally posted by Infidel
The most common theory is that Istanbul developed from the greek eis ten poli (pron: is tin boli)meaning to or in the city. It's likely to have been so, at least linguistically speaking. Culturally, it also makes sense, since Constantinople was referred to simply as i Poli, the City, among greeks, even nowadays.
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I have a question here.. if i poli means the city.. so is it Tripoli of Libya also influenced from the greek? what it means by Tripoli anyway...???
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 15:21 |
ah, good point Cahaya, I never thought of the connection though it is obvious. Tripoli is greek of the "triple city". Arabatized and called by Libyans as "Tarablus".
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D.J. Kaufman
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ok ge
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Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 15:46 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
I don't know why people think that Turks were so ignorant, when Europeans were in the dark ages, Turks were ruling the most civilized part of the world, I think when the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security, Turks started singing this Greek Peom of Molana Rumi for teaching them the Greek literature! |
This has nothing to do with being civilized or not. Turks might knew greek but the name Istambul didn't exist on the eve of capturing the city.
"According to a popular story that has existed for many years, the Byzantines did not refer to the city by its actual name, but, because of it size, simply as 'Polis' (the City), and when they wanted to say 'to the City', they said 'eist enpolin' (is-tin-polin), which was the (possible) origin of the name 'Istanbul'. Recent research has shown that the name 'Istanbul' was used if not during the Byzantine period, at least during the 11th century and that the Turks knew the city by this name. Istanbul has had other names at various times but none of them was used widely or for any great length of time"
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html
I can see naming the city Asitana or Asatana by the Ottomans since they (as the Seljuk were) adopted Persian too for their administration (at least for a while a mix of it). However, I dont' see why would it be named in Persian "the city" before the Ottoman administration came, neither Asatana resembles a close deriviate of Istanbul more than the Greek story. Also, if it happened that Istanbul was derived from Asitana, it would have sufficed it and replaced it and we wont see the five names of the city: Islambol, Istanbul, Constantinople, Kostantiniya, and the Asitana.
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D.J. Kaufman
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Infidel
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Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 21:49 |
I think that the greek theory is the most logical one, both linguistically and culturally. One can easily imagine eis ten poli [is tin boli], meaning in or to the city, originating Istanbul in the turkish tongue. Furthermore, there's the cultural explanation that the greeks commonly called Constantinople simply as I Poli, the city. I think nowadays they call Istanbul as I Poli still.
As for Konstantiniye, I read in some books about Ottoman history that this was how the city was named in their official documents. Perhaps, only in the documents sent to european countries, I'm not sure.
The persian name, I never heard.
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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 13:05 |
Just a question "Which city is called the Eurasian Land Bridge (Istan Bul)?"
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ok ge
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 13:32 |
interesting question, however, I also wonder why Istanbul resembles a different case. Usually "stan" is a suffix with locations. Afgahnistan (Afghan land) , Pakistan (Paki (light) land) , and so it should be the Pulstan (land of bridges), and not land bridge. Anyone who can explain the linguistic ackwardness of (stan Pul)?
Edited by ok ge
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D.J. Kaufman
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Zagros
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 14:09 |
Pullistan would be bridgeland and isn't correct not does it make sense because it isnt a land of bride, it is a land bridge.
Ostan pol makes perfect sense. Bridge between regions/countries/continents. And as Cyrus says, the Turks were fully able to speak Persian and Greek and certainly wouldn't name a city "back into the city".
I think it is either Land Bridge or a variation of Constantinople. With the former being more likely as I do not see a need for the K sound to be dropped.
Edited by Zagros
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ok ge
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 14:42 |
Ok, then I guess the theory can be correct in this case. If it is, it will means a change is needed to many well-known internet encyclopedias.
"Etymology
The name Istanbul comes from the late Greek words stin Poli (στήν Πόλι, from Classical Greek eis tn Polin (εις τήν Πόλι(ν meaning "to/at the City" (the City/Polis being Constantinoupolis). The intermediate form Stamboul was commonly used by the Turks in the 19th century"
http://www.answers.com/topic/istanbul
Edited by ok ge
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D.J. Kaufman
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amir khan
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 17:44 |
Originally posted by ok ge
interesting question, however, I also wonder why Istanbul resembles a different case. Usually "stan" is a suffix with locations. Afgahnistan (Afghan land) , Pakistan (Paki (light) land) , and so it should be the Pulstan (land of bridges), and not land bridge. Anyone who can explain the linguistic ackwardness of (stan Pul)?
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Not to be pedantic, as its a small point, but because it is important to be factually correct in intellectual discussions, the word Pak means literally-PURE, and thus PAKI means PURITY.
PAKISTAN=Land of purity
I think persians should be able to verify this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 18:08 |
Yes Paaki would be purity. I always thought it was Paak-istan rather than Paaki-stan, though you may know better than me. Paak-istan would be pure land rather than land of purity.
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amir khan
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 18:25 |
Your completely right,zagros.
The best way to pronounce it is Paak-istan
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ok ge
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Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 22:49 |
Oh right, Paak= Pure. I got that wrong saying it is "light". Thank you for the correction.
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D.J. Kaufman
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Iranian41ife
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Posted: 28-Dec-2005 at 13:25 |
persian was the cultural and artistic language of turks (the ones on anotolia) up till ataturk changed the language. so it is very possible that it came from a persian term.
stan means tribe, that is what i read but i guess it could also mean country or place.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 13-Feb-2012 at 15:57 |
ISTaN=The First Her Presence,beauties Mother's!Mother Earth that we share together today so it is all around Istan!
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Nick1986
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Posted: 13-Feb-2012 at 19:19 |
Please explain Medenaywe. Are you saying "istan" is derived from an ancient onomatopeic word for motherland?
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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medenaywe
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Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 01:28 |
Nick just go to Origins of languages we started together!It is old Egyptian.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 19:29 |
Originally posted by medenaywe
Nick just go to Origins of languages we started together!It is old Egyptian.
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If that's true, why didn't the ancient Egyptians call their country "Khemedistan"?
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medenaywe
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Posted: 18-Feb-2012 at 11:53 |
Never call the Imam pezevengi,Nick!Just read the topic!
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