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the term "istan", from who does it originate?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6663
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Topic: the term "istan", from who does it originate?
Posted By: TheodoreFelix
Subject: the term "istan", from who does it originate?
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 20:05
I heard it was of Turkic origin but from what I hear, this also mostly denotes lands that are muslim in populous. It means "land of" I believe, right? So can someone tell me this words origin?



Replies:
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 20:25
To my understanding the suffix "-istan" or "stan", is Persian/Iranian in origin. Countries influenced by Iranian cultures (such as Armenia) use the suffix, but it is Iranian in the original form, from what i have read in Armenian history books.

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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2005 at 08:50
AFAIK, its used in Sanskrit too.

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Posted By: oslonor
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 03:46
It means Province in Persian. It also means city in Swedish. It is a geographical division. The word is "Stan"

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Posted By: Hamoudeh
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 02:26

If in regard to Istanbul, there are several theories but the one mostly maintained is that it's a Turkish contraction of the Greek "est an polis" (or similar) meaning "into the city" which is what the Byzantines were supposedly saying when the Ottomans were close to enter Constantinople.  

Ma`salam

 



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Posted By: Jhangora
Date Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 07:23

Originally posted by Cywr

AFAIK, its used in Sanskrit too.

Sanskrit 'Sthan'=Place.



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Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:42

Originally posted by Hamoudeh

there are several theories but the one mostly maintained is that it's a Turkish contraction of the Greek "est an polis" (or similar) meaning "into the city"

The most common theory is that Istanbul developed from the greek eis ten poli (pron: is tin boli)meaning to or in the city. It's likely to have been so, at least linguistically speaking. Culturally, it also makes sense, since Constantinople was referred to simply as i Poli, the City, among greeks, even nowadays. 

I read somewhere that a contraction of Konstantinopouli to Konstanpouli and then simply to Stanpouli (pro: stanbuli) could be also another reasonable explanation.



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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?


Posted By: Hamoudeh
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 21:02

"eis ten poli" is also what my Turkic linguistics professor told me, and he maintained it was the most common theory. I asked about the one you mention about Constantinople, he didn't find it probable; I've read it somewhere as well, sounded reasonable to me to.



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Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 22:18
Perhaps we'll never know. Anyway, eis ten poli is reasonable enough to be accepted, given the fact that Constantinople was commonly referred to i poli among the greeks. So the turks would hear stinboli all the time and simply call it istinbol and later istanbul to the city.

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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?


Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 22:19

On ottoman official documents, it remained Konstantiniye until the end of the Empire, though.

I think it officially changed to Istanbul during the Republic.

 



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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 05:16

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).

just read these ones: http://www.gzastorm.i12.com/islam/index.html - http://www.gzastorm.i12.com/islam/index.html

it was the nationalist policy of the unionists within the state that evoked the nationalist idea in the Ottoman elements. Hence, the Albanians in Astana founded their own Committee, soon to be followed by the Circassians and the Kurds.

The Arabs for their part established the Committee of "Arab-Ottoman Brotherhood" in Astana and they opened the Committees club under the same name.

It is in the interest of the Astana government to coerce the Syrians to leave their homelands. Arab lands, especially Iraq and Yemen, must be turned into Turkish colonies, in order to spread the Turkish language which must be the language of the Deen.

And you have to trust the fact that the Turkish Committee, which you have witnessed in Astana and in the other parts inhabited by Turkish elements, does not clash in any way with the Arab aspirations.

I have said it many times and I know you just love to play with words and ignore all Persian sources, anyway I say again that from early times Persians called "Constantinople" as "Istan Bul" which means "Land Bridge", as they said "AfghanIstan" (Land of Afghans) and "Kabul" (Mountain Bridge).



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Posted By: Alborz
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:15

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

ignore all Persian sources, anyway I say again that from early times Persians called "Constantinople" as "Istan Bul" which means "Land Bridge", as they said "AfghanIstan" (Land of Afghans) and "Kabul" (Mountain Bridge).

Actually it was "Istan Pul", and "KaPul".

istan bul and kabul are the arabized ones, because of lack of P in their language.



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Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:57

hmmm when did the Arabs arabized pul?

its the persian who lost their P .

anyway i think the Istana as Cyrus mentioned is the correct theory for Istanbul's name.

 



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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 10:58
Alborz is right, the original Persian words were Istanapul and Kuhpul.

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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 14:21
Originally posted by Infidel

On ottoman official documents, it remained Konstantiniye until the end of the Empire, though.

I think it officially changed to Istanbul during the Republic

I think the local people of Istanbul called it "konstantiniyye" another version of Constantinople.

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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 16:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).



Not that I want to say it's a false information but could you please post any document or photo saying Istana or Astana when mentioning Istanbul related to Ottoman?

You said almost all offical documents, I want only one cos it's the first time I heard these words.I'm just curious


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 16:38

Asitane, I heard istanbul was called as such but didnt know meaning of it.

Infact I dont know why Turks should call consantinapole as "into the city".

They were no alien to consantinapolis name or greek langauge.  I cant see any reason to call a known city as "into the city"

Bin adet baslm olan kitab kartrmaya koyuldum. koyuldum. lk sayfada kitabn adnn neden "Asitane" olduu aklanyordu. Eski bir asker olan yazarn geride brakt baz eyalarn zerinde "Ragp Efendi, Asitane yazlym. Asitane, Osmanl payitaht stanbul'un tarihteki adlarndan biri... Kitab kartrmaya devam ettim. En yenisi otuz, en eskisi elli yl nce yazlm yazlara ve onlarn tasniflerine baktm. Neler yoktu ki? stanbul'un semtleri, nakil vastalar, camiler, saraylar, emeler, kabristanlar...

http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/03/21/cp/yaz1034-20-104-20040321-102.html - http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/03/21/cp/yaz1034-20-104-2004032 1-102.html

It say Asitane was one name of Istanbul.



Posted By: Hamoudeh
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 22:08

The theory is that as they were ready to conquer it, the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security. Ottomans heard that, and named the city after what they heard. Eist an poli -> Istanbul.

 

 



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Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 03:33

After the Ottoman conquest, the name Constantinople was accompanied with "Konstantiniye". I also heard different names being used as 'Dersaadet" and "Deraliye''.

As Hamoudeh said, the Istanbul came from a greek sentance "to the city" said as eis ten polin in greek and not Eist an poli.



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Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 04:56

I don't know why people think that Turks were so ignorant, when Europeans were in the dark ages, Turks were ruling the most civilized part of the world, I think when the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security, Turks started singing this http://www.rumi.org.uk/greek/piimata.htm - Greek Peom of Molana Rumi for teaching them the Greek literature!



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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 05:15

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).

Now i know the word Istana or Astana we use in Malay is from Persian.. cool..



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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 06:33

hehe

That is excatly what I mean.Turks had already known greek langauge and city of istanbul(remember before conquest there was  a mosque in istanbul), that is  not a story like kangarou.

I  think  cyprus theory is  more probable.

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 13:51

Originally posted by Infidel


The most common theory is that Istanbul developed from the greek eis ten poli (pron: is tin boli)meaning to or in the city. It's likely to have been so, at least linguistically speaking. Culturally, it also makes sense, since Constantinople was referred to simply as i Poli, the City, among greeks, even nowadays.

I have a question here.. if i poli means the city.. so is it Tripoli of Libya also influenced from the greek? what it means by Tripoli anyway...???



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Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 15:21
ah, good point Cahaya, I never thought of the connection though it is obvious. Tripoli is greek of the "triple city". Arabatized and called by Libyans as "Tarablus".

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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 15:46

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I don't know why people think that Turks were so ignorant, when Europeans were in the dark ages, Turks were ruling the most civilized part of the world, I think when the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security, Turks started singing this http://www.rumi.org.uk/greek/piimata.htm - Greek Peom of Molana Rumi for teaching them the Greek literature!

This has nothing to do with being civilized or not.  Turks might knew greek but the name Istambul didn't exist on the eve of capturing the city.

"According to a popular story that has existed for many years, the Byzantines did not refer to the city by its actual name, but, because of it size, simply as 'Polis' (the City), and when they wanted to say 'to the City', they said 'eist enpolin' (is-tin-polin), which was the (possible) origin of the name 'Istanbul'Recent research has shown that the name 'Istanbul' was used if not during the Byzantine period, at least during the 11th century and that the Turks knew the city by this name. Istanbul has had other names at various times but none of them was used widely or for any great length of time"  

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html - http://www.sephardicstudies.org/istanbul.html

I can see naming the city Asitana or Asatana by the Ottomans since they (as the Seljuk were) adopted Persian too for their administration (at least for a while a mix of it). However, I dont' see why would it be named in Persian "the city" before the Ottoman administration came, neither Asatana resembles a close deriviate of Istanbul more than the Greek story. Also, if it happened that Istanbul was derived from Asitana, it would have sufficed it and replaced it and we wont see the five names of the city: Islambol, Istanbul, Constantinople, Kostantiniya, and the Asitana.



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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 21:49

I think that the greek theory is the most logical one, both linguistically and culturally. One can easily imagine eis ten poli [is tin boli], meaning in or to the city, originating Istanbul in the turkish tongue. Furthermore, there's the cultural explanation that the greeks commonly called Constantinople simply as I Poli, the city. I think nowadays they call Istanbul as I Poli still. 

As for Konstantiniye, I read in some books about Ottoman history that this was how the city was named in their official documents. Perhaps, only in the documents sent to european countries, I'm not sure.

The persian name, I never heard.



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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 13:05
Just a question "Which city is called the Eurasian Land Bridge (Istan Bul)?"

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Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 13:32

interesting question, however, I also wonder why Istanbul resembles a different case. Usually "stan" is a suffix with locations. Afgahnistan (Afghan land) , Pakistan (Paki (light) land) , and so it should be the Pulstan (land of bridges), and not land bridge. Anyone who can explain the linguistic ackwardness of (stan Pul)?



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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 14:09

Pullistan would be bridgeland and isn't correct not does it make sense because it isnt a land of bride, it is a land bridge.

Ostan pol makes perfect sense. Bridge between regions/countries/continents.  And as Cyrus says, the Turks were fully able to speak Persian and Greek and certainly wouldn't name a city "back into the city".

I think it is either Land Bridge or a variation of Constantinople.  With the former being more likely as I do not see a need for the K sound to be dropped.



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Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 14:42

Ok, then I guess the theory can be correct in this case. If it is, it will means a change is needed to many well-known internet encyclopedias.

"Etymology

The name Istanbul comes from the late Greek words stin Poli (στήν Πόλι, from Classical Greek eis tn Polin (εις τήν Πόλι(ν meaning "to/at the City" (the City/Polis being Constantinoupolis). The intermediate form Stamboul was commonly used by the Turks in the 19th century"

http://www.answers.com/topic/istanbul - http://www.answers.com/topic/istanbul

 



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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: amir khan
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 17:44
Originally posted by ok ge

interesting question, however, I also wonder why Istanbul resembles a different case. Usually "stan" is a suffix with locations. Afgahnistan (Afghan land) , Pakistan (Paki (light) land) , and so it should be the Pulstan (land of bridges), and not land bridge. Anyone who can explain the linguistic ackwardness of (stan Pul)?

 

Not to be pedantic, as its a small point, but because it is important to be factually correct in intellectual discussions, the word Pak means literally-PURE, and thus PAKI means PURITY.

PAKISTAN=Land of  purity

I think persians should be able to verify this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan

 



Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 18:08
Yes Paaki would be purity. I always thought it was Paak-istan rather than Paaki-stan, though you may know better than me. Paak-istan would be pure land rather than land of purity.

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Posted By: amir khan
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 18:25

 

Your completely right,zagros.

The best way to pronounce it is Paak-istan



Posted By: ok ge
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 22:49

Oh right, Paak= Pure. I got that wrong saying it is "light". Thank you for the correction.



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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.


Posted By: Iranian41ife
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2005 at 13:25

persian was the cultural and artistic language of turks (the ones on anotolia) up till ataturk changed the language. so it is very possible that it came from a persian term.

stan means tribe, that is what i read but i guess it could also mean country or place.



Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 13-Feb-2012 at 15:57
ISTaN=The First Her Presence,beauties Mother's!Mother Earth that we share together today so it is all around Istan!


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Feb-2012 at 19:19
Please explain Medenaywe. Are you saying "istan" is derived from an ancient onomatopeic word for motherland?

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 01:28
Nick just go to Origins of languages we started together!It is old Egyptian.Smile


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2012 at 19:29
Originally posted by medenaywe

Nick just go to Origins of languages we started together!It is old Egyptian.Smile

If that's true, why didn't the ancient Egyptians call their country "Khemedistan"?


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2012 at 11:53
LOLNever call the Imam pezevengi,Nick!Just read the topic!


Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2012 at 14:59
Originally posted by cahaya

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).

Now i know the word Istana or Astana we use in Malay is from Persian.. cool..



Istana means court in Indonesian, so I'm assuming that is the same in Bahasa Melayu.
Just checked and Astana means cemetery in Indonesian so it would be embarrassing to mix the two up :)


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Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2012 at 15:01
it means everywhere part of earth's surface which it is!Smile


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2012 at 13:20
By the way,where is ancient name of Egypt in clay plates?!?How did they call it in Hieroglyphic inscription if
they read them well at all???Smile


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2013 at 05:03
ISTaN=The First Her presence beauties maternal Istan=land!
Indirect speech:The First Her presence is embellished by Istan=land&country!



Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2013 at 20:42
Originally posted by medenaywe

ISTaN=The First Her presence beauties maternal Istan=land!
Indirect speech:The First Her presence is embellished by Istan=land&country!


The origin of the phrase "Motherland" perhaps?


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Mar-2013 at 06:22
Here Stan=home&flat  I prefer Habitat&Land&Country you are living on!Motherland is where is
good for life!LOLThere is Latin proverb about it Nick.Big smileMy homeland is where is good for living!
http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stan - http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stan
http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stanovanje - http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stanovanje
http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stanovati - http://www.eudict.com/index.php?lang=croeng&word=stanovati


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Mar-2013 at 06:25
When you have a habitat,it embellishes your Life!With sky above your head everything seems different.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2013 at 19:42
Afghanastan doesn't look very flat to me. It has desert, mountains and deep caves


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2013 at 23:31
It is habitat for lot of people Nick!SmilePeople are connected with habitat within umbilical cords...Big smile


Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 00:19
istan means land of so afghanistan means land of afghan turkmenistan means and of turkmens and kazakhistan means land of kazakhs 

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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 00:40
Agree Yomud!SmileIt is also their habitat,isn't it?


Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 11:13
as far as i know it's just means land of and place of the word bimar in persian means sick or wounded so bimaristan(hospital) means place of sick/wounded Wink

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Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 12:02
guys plz forget about greek theory of istanbul

it can means so many things it can be full turkic word or half turkic half persian word see this

bul have so many meaning like so many full of becoming  hurry

so istanbul can  means becoming capital (half turkish half persian) or become place of settling

ist/est in persian means stop so it can make an other half turkish half persian word istanbul = the place that become stop place

other theory of istanbul is islambul which means become islam or full of islam

turkmen turkish differences

bul/ol bulor/olur bulmor/olmaz bulde/oulde they just remove the b words they speak modern turkish we speak old ones LOL


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