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Ikki
Chieftain
Guanarteme
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Topic: Israel attack Gaza, December 2008 Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 11:51 |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801662.stm
Israel renews air strikes on Gaza
Israeli jets have launched a second day of air attacks on the Gaza Strip, amid warnings that operations will continue until Hamas ends rocket fire from Gaza.
Palestinian officials raised the number killed on Saturday to 271, while Israel said it targeted 30 sites overnight.
At the UN, the Security Council called for an end to all violence in Gaza, including rocket attacks from Gaza.
Israel says at least 110 rockets have been fired over the weekend, and warned it may send troops into Gaza.
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 12:52 |
Typical Zionist barbarity.
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Yiannis
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 13:41 |
Can't believe that the world is not reacting to this barbarity. Shouln't be there an ultimatum to Israel to stop this and if they fail to do so then NATO jets and Tomahawk missiles scramble over Tel Aviv? I mean, this did happen with Serbia...
Oh, yes. Enjoy the holidays everyone... I'm sure the Palestinians do.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Al Jassas
Arch Duke
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 14:28 |
Hello to you all
Why would the world even bother? The world order is paralysed, it only intervens when Oil (Iraq), gas (central Asia) or a regime that threatens their domination exists. Now if the darling of the international community is commiting such acts against people who are irrelevent in the world balance of powers who is even going to ask for a second opinion?
As much as I regret saying it, Hamas isn't exactly innocent either, they knew this was coming and worse, they knew Israel particularly was above international law yet the brotherhood mentality still dominates their actions.
God only help those 1.4 million trapped in the world's biggest prison.
Al-Jassas
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 14:55 |
and a happy new year to you!
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Leonidas
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 16:23 |
the Gaza situation is disgusting and it is hard to make sense of it all while our own governments say nothing but soft words like 'we implore Israel' or whatever.
On one hand i understand why people in Gaza, prisoners, just want to hurt Israel in anyway they can, but on the other hand Hamas needs to stop the hostilities as well. They must bear some responsibility for security and safety of their citizens*. They are inviting what is predictable Israeli action so why should we be shocked this time over any other?
They may try to emulate Hezbollah and they might even beat Israel in Gaza with blood all over the streets but it wont change anything. they are screwing themselves and playing into Israel. Hamas and Israel need each other so the can re-confirm their hard line political positions.
*remember these guys are the elected government
Edited by Leonidas - 28-Dec-2008 at 16:25
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edgewaters
Sultan
Snake in the Grass-Banned
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 16:38 |
It's high time to just bulldoze everything for a mile either side of the wall, declare it a DMZ, and move the blue helmets in.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 17:20 |
Good luck Israel!
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King John
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 20:34 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Can't believe that the world is not reacting to this barbarity. Shouln't be there an ultimatum to Israel to stop this and if they fail to do so then NATO jets and Tomahawk missiles scramble over Tel Aviv? I mean, this did happen with Serbia...
Oh, yes. Enjoy the holidays everyone... I'm sure the Palestinians do. |
Why should the Israelis stop if they continue to get bombarded by shelling from Gaza? Doesn't Hamas, as an elected government, have the responsibility to its people to protect them? And if protecting them means not allowing people to provoke a richer more powerful neighbor doesn't Hamas have a responsibility to it people to crack down and punish those who commit the provocations?
Is Israel's response a little much, yes. Does that mean that people should overlook how the Palestinians are acting in provoking such actions, no.
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Super Goat (^_^)
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 21:48 |
So blockading Gaza is not provoking in the slightest bit right?
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Kevin
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 21:59 |
Originally posted by King John
Originally posted by Yiannis
Can't believe that the world is not reacting to this barbarity. Shouln't be there an ultimatum to Israel to stop this and if they fail to do so then NATO jets and Tomahawk missiles scramble over Tel Aviv? I mean, this did happen with Serbia...
Oh, yes. Enjoy the holidays everyone... I'm sure the Palestinians do. | Why should the Israelis stop if they continue to get bombarded by shelling from Gaza? Doesn't Hamas, as an elected government, have the responsibility to its people to protect them? And if protecting them means not allowing people to provoke a richer more powerful neighbor doesn't Hamas have a responsibility to it people to crack down and punish those who commit the provocations?
Is Israel's response a little much, yes. Does that mean that people should overlook how the Palestinians are acting in provoking such actions, no. |
However Hamas has ideological interests in seeing their people provoke Israel.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 22:56 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
Typical Zionist barbarity. | Pretty much, I have read through some of the reports from BBC, pretty horrid. As far as Abbas, he is nothing but a little puppet, if he had any b---s he would suck it up and stand up to Israel, perhaps then his own people would show him the respect he yearns for. As of now he is nothing but a local Governor who isn't doing much toward Palestinian unity or statehood.
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:01 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Can't believe that the world is not reacting to this barbarity. Shouln't be there an ultimatum to Israel to stop this and if they fail to do so then NATO jets and Tomahawk missiles scramble over Tel Aviv? I mean, this did happen with Serbia...
Oh, yes. Enjoy the holidays everyone... I'm sure the Palestinians do. |
...well even the "Change" Democrats including Obama are scared of even mentioning anything critical... so we will have to see if anything will truly change in this disgusting barbarity that has gone on now far too long.
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:07 |
Originally posted by King John
Originally posted by Yiannis
Can't believe that the world is not reacting to this barbarity. Shouln't be there an ultimatum to Israel to stop this and if they fail to do so then NATO jets and Tomahawk missiles scramble over Tel Aviv? I mean, this did happen with Serbia...
Oh, yes. Enjoy the holidays everyone... I'm sure the Palestinians do. | Why should the Israelis stop if they continue to get bombarded by shelling from Gaza? Doesn't Hamas, as an elected government, have the responsibility to its people to protect them? And if protecting them means not allowing people to provoke a richer more powerful neighbor doesn't Hamas have a responsibility to it people to crack down and punish those who commit the provocations?
Is Israel's response a little much, yes. Does that mean that people should overlook how the Palestinians are acting in provoking such actions, no. |
Again... go spend a year in Palestine and you will see why they should "stop." They are nothing but a bunch of overly ideological thugs that are killing off an entire group of people and dwindling their territories day by day. Now Israel has a defense budget that is supported by some large donations and has a superb military... and you have a rock - now you throw that rock and get your entire family and the other 2 blocks shelled. What a proportionate response to the attacks... Oh please get off your moral high horse and see some reality. I am not saying Hamas is innocent, but it is not exactly like Israel has had the better part of the moral high ground in this conflict. If I come to your house take it, and make you live in the Garbage can next to the house for 3 generations and your grandchildren now grow up in there and cant do s--t about it, would you be so kind and accept my new stipulation (basically I keep the house you live in the bucket and rot with no hope for a future). I respect your input on the forum, but you have a very skewed and limited scope and view of the situation.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:07 |
Originally posted by Super Goat (^_^)
So blockading Gaza is not provoking in the slightest bit right?
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No apparently it is a humanitarian action
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:12 |
http://www.jatonyc.org/ http://www.jatonyc.org/backinfo.html#minority http://www.jatonyc.org/backinfo.html#settlements http://www.jatonyc.org/backinfo.html#refugees Interesting links...
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:18 |
Originally posted by King John
Why should the Israelis stop if they continue to get bombarded by shelling from Gaza? Doesn't Hamas, as an elected government, have the responsibility to its people to protect them? |
Hamas rockets hit their targets at such a miniscule percentile and they kill at a rate even less than that. Their rockets are nothing more than home-made science projects. I think you're more likely to get killed by a yak than by a Hamas rocket.
And Hamas was the elected government until immediately after the elections when Israel and the US/UK rejected the result, for no reason other than it didn't suit their political agenda. So Hamas is not recognized by the west, and if you remember a year or two ago Israel even declared Gaza a "hostile entity". But this goes back before Hamas was elected in 06'... Gaza has been more or less a concentration camp since the 80's.
But Hamas is protecting their people... fighting back, even on a small scale, against a colonizing entity which has rendered their native land into a concentration camp is (to my knowledge) the status quo in most situations. Look at the Warsaw ghetto uprisings.
Originally posted by King John
Is Israel's response a little much, yes. Does that mean that people should overlook how the Palestinians are acting in provoking such actions, no. |
Yes, lets just ignore the entire history of the conflict. Lets ignore the fact that a bunch of Europeans and North Americans decided to come to Asia to colonize and ethnically cleanse an entire nation. Lets ignore the fact they still don't recognize the native Palestinian state, while at the same time, not only urging recognition of Israel, but never putting limits on Israel's borders. Lets also ignore the fact that the Zionists have been waging almost non-stop military offensives for over 7 decades, and have occupied land from each of their neighbors at some point. Lets ignore the fact that the Zionist movement was neither nationalistic nor religious in nature. Lets ignore the fact that it was rejected outright by all Asian nationalist movements including Ghandi's India, making it ideologically out of touch with the reality of the continent. Lets ignore their secret nuclear weapons program, ignore all their land-grabs and massacres which still continue today in the form of West Bank walls and Gaza airstrikes. Maybe then we can make sense out of blaming Palestinians for "provoking such actions".
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
Typical Zionist barbarity. |
Quoted for truth. What do you expect from a movement which was in bed with imperialist powers from day one, and which has never put limits on its own borders?
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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Yiannis
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Location: Neutral Zone
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:31 |
Originally posted by King John
Is Israel's response a little much, yes. |
In case someone pull out a gun and kill you for e.g. calling him an idiot, don't worry, he's just "overreacting" pffff....
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Parnell
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:46 |
There is a problem in this debate, as one side, usually self-righteous
holier than thou folks (Usually leftists) wander along and come out
with a line like the first response to this thread, which doesn't
exactly help. Saying 'motherf*cking Joos' is about as productive.
Most people with a heart can sympathise with families who are having
their homes blown out by a rocket, irrelevant to which side of a wall
they come from, or to what their annual income might be. But always
blaming one side (Israel) oversimplifies the issue and lets some really
bad apples (Hamas) think they can continue to have the moral high
ground in every dispute.
How do you deal with an adversary who won't recognise your right to existence?
I'm no 'zionist' or 'western capitalist pig', but sometimes enough is
enough already with the crazy rhetoric. Someone needs to grab someone
else by the hand and sit down like adults and work the god damn thing
out. Otherwise, like our grandparents have seen with us, our
grandchildren will be reading reports of another bomb in some town in
some place in Palestine. And there will still be people like Beylerbyi ready to jump onboard with a typically thoughtless and self-righteous remark.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Dec-2008 at 23:58 |
I am just waiting what is Obama going to say about this attack.
Let's see if the change really comes, or it was just rethoric to win an election.
The U.S. is the only nation with the power to make Israel to reason. After all, Israel lives on subsidies from the U.S., so the official silence is just a form of complicity.
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