On below picture You can see king of Poland Stefan Bathory and Russian delegation asking him for peace. This is during surrounding of Pskow by Polish Army. Stefan Bathory was Hungarian and is considered to be one of the best kings of Poland. Also Hungarians have a graet hero who was Polish and I've heard that some Hungarians even think he was a Hungarian. I mean of course Joseph Bem, called by Hungarians Daddy Bem or something like that. I think that Polish and Hungarians are exceptional example of very long 1000 years friendship in Europe's History. This friendship started in 11th century when Polish and Hungarians were fighting together against Roman Empire of German Nation and it lasted throughtought the history. Even if Poland and Hungarians were in opposite camps like during WWII there wasn't any hostility. I don't know other such examples in Europe History. Maybe Serbs and Greeks? What do You think about it and do You know others such allies, but I don't mean examples like Estonia and England friendship cause this countries are far away and didin't have any cause not to be friendly. I mean neighbours like Poland and Hungary  

Maju, Your historical knowledge is unfortunately very limitted. Hungary didin't play any role in Poland's partitions because in times of partitions 1772- 1795 there wasn't Hungary. Austrio-Hungary begun in 1866. In times of partitions Hungary were in very bad situation. They were forced to live under Habsburg rule. So Your statement about Hungary taking part in Poland's partitions is ridicoulos.

The same with Poland's taking part in invasion of Hungary in 1956. This one of most stupid opinions I've ever heard. Hungarian uprising started because Hungarians wanted to support Polish workers demonstration in Poznan. Hungarian revoulyion started on the square wit monument of hero of both nations Jozef Bem. Polish army didin't take any part in Hungarian revolution. In Poland there also was a crisis and many people were killed during riots and polish army send to Hungary could lead to blow. polish people showed a lot of help to Hungarians in this difficult period for Hungary and even communist couldn't oppose it.

So I think above prove Your wrong. Though You are right about some conflicts in Middle Ages and later but I did say there was such. But it was all small conflicts.

As emmeber of the Habsburg monarchy, Hungary (Austria-Hungary) played against Poland in the Partitions, where AH got  good slice from the crumbling Polish state.

If that is right I can claim that Finnish attacked Germany during 30 years war because they were part of Sweden.  

i don't know where this Poland-Hunnary myth always comes from. a) they don't share a common border, unless Slovakia is a made-up country. b) Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

Myth was born in the 19th century and its authour was a romantic Hungarian poet.

Altough it must be said that when Hitler wanted Hungary to take part in war against Poland, Hungarians refused. Later during Warsaw uprising some hungarian units in the area of Warsaw supplied insurgents with arms.

No, it wasnt farce. But Lithuanians dont like us today. I guess they think that we wanted to steal their land or somthing like that.

The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance started in 1294 and continues to today and is probably the oldest lasting alliance in the world today.

Polish Hungarian alliance started in the beginning of XI century so it is much older than English - Portugal, although I must say it came to my mind when I think about European allies.

I think the alliance between England and Portugal is more closed, they had troubles, but was a relation very strong.

I'm pretty sure that Polish -Hungarians alliance was much more close. You must remember that Poland and Hungary were neighbours. Slovakia was unfortunately Hungarians land in older times.

But you know that Hungary always had a special status in the Habsburg domains... it wasn't just another silly province, like Croatia or Voralberg... it was one of the constituents: Austria, Hungary and Bohemia.

You can say that the dynastic interest of the Habsburg weren't those of Hungary... but that could apply to any other country living under an absolute or even constitutional monarchy...

If we follow that criterium, then Spain and France have always been excellent neighbours: they have only fought each other when they had dynastic disputes, like Navarre, Netherlands, Germany of thr France Comte... You can say the same about France and England, Spain and Portugal, etc...

But actually the rulers of Hungary, helped in the destruction of Poland twice: under the Habsburg and under the fascist regime.

Maju, I'm sorry I exatereted saying that Your knowledge of history is limited, but You must understand that Hungarians had to fight theirs position in Habsburgs Empire during theirs uprisings and decisive was Uprising 1848.

i don't know where this Poland-Hunnary myth always comes from. a) they don't share a common border, unless Slovakia is a made-up country. b) Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

As I said this very old alliance from XI century. And Slovakia is new as country. Before XX century Slovakia belonged to Hungary so Poland and Hungary had a common border.

Poles dislike their shared king (Louis of Anjou) who is considdered great by the Hungarians but abd by the Poles.

I must say he was nothing special but his daughter married Prince Wladislaw Jagiello and is considered as saint. Stefan Bathory was a very good king Poland and he was a Hungarian. Hungarians are called for help now.

Stefan Bathory was from Transsylvania what is Romania today, an it was really just one king and that one incident during the Hungarian uprising, i don't see how this makes the Poles and Hungarians best allies...

I could tell You much more examples. For example Boleslaw Krzywousty and Hungarian prince ( I don't remember his name ) fought together against Germans in 12th century, Boleslaw the Brave help Hungarian king Wladislaw Great to get back his throne in 11th century, Hungarians helped Wladislaw Lokietek to unite Poland in XIV century....I could go on and on, but I see You have Your theory and it would be hard to persuade You.

I can add that Transylwania was Hungarian this time and Bathory was an Hungarian so I don't know what You wwant to prove by saying Stefan Bathory was from Transsylvania what is Romania today.

one incident during the Hungarian uprising.

This even more funny. You call this incident. It was Hungarians greatest uprising and Joseph Bem was main commander of Siedmiogrod Army. Also many Poles were fighting on Hungarians side.

Poles were also in a Austro-Hungarian Legion in WW1, there was also a Polish Legion in Revolutionary and Napoelonic France, Poland also had a French King (Louis of Anjou, the king you shared with Hungary). your antional hero Kosciusko was an Ukrianian and the Ukrainian national hero Khmelsicki was a Pole. Polands only naval victory was won by a german commander, and you helped beating back the last big Muslim invasion of Europe at Vienna together with German troops. Otto the great made Boleslaw Chrobry "co-ruler and brother within the Empire" in a treaty of co-operation and freidnship. so we have an example of France, Austria, Ukraine and Germany, also each 2 instances that would validate a statement like what you made about Hungary.

as i already said in the last thread about this, Polands biggest ally is Lithuania, its just the events in the early 20th century that lead to the bad relationships of Poles and Lithuanians that last to this day. and the only reason Poland thinks Hungary is their best friend is simply because Hugnary is the only neighbour of Poland that never invaded them. and i really think your theory is fixed, not mine.

While there is some truth in your post, in majority it is inacurate. Kosciuszko wasnt ukrainian, he was born in Belarus but in the polish noble familly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosciuszko - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosciuszko

The admiral of Polish navy who won the battle of Oliwa against swedish fleet wasnt German but Dutch and his name was Arend Dickmann or Arend Dijckman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arend_Dickmann - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arend_Dickmann

Second in command was scottish who also had rank of admiral in Polish navy, his name was James Murray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Murray_%28admiral%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Murray_%28admiral%29

So there was no german commander of german origin.

As for Austria you are right, for centuries it was best ally of Poland-Lithuania but Poland didnt have much profits from this alliance. Actually Poland saved Vienna twice.

As for France one can have mixed feelings. Henry III of France before got french throne for a year ruled Poland and didnt impress anyone (he escaped in the night and his Polish people were chasing him trying to bring him back by force but caught him finally on the territory of HRE). He simply had no idea how to rule in Poland and was thinking that everyone is offending him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_III_of_France - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_III_of_France

Napoleon sent Polish legion to San Domingo where instead fighting for Poland they were supposed to kill revolted black slaves.

Ukraine was for Poland one big pain resulting in endless rebellions and massacres even in 20th century.

As for Germany: Emperor Otto III soon died and after his reign was long war between Poland and Empire ending in peace treaty in Bautzen (1018 AD). But it is truth that many Germans were coming to Poland and majority of them were polonised. As well subjects of Polish crown who were of german nationality were usually very loyal. Take for example Danzig (Gdansk) which to the end was trying to resisting against Prussians during partitions of Poland (in whole history Danzig revolted only once when king Bathory wanted to get more cash for war against Russia).

If you look at it from a seafaring point of view (i.e. an Anglo-Portuguese one), then in a way Portugal and England are neighbours - there is no country in between them.

Every country on the littoral from Norway to Portugal is a 'neighbour' of England.

Originally posted by Ikki Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl France and Sweden. Strangely the only time France and sweden were at war was when Sweden had a french king, during the Napoleonic. It wasn't Sweden fault more like the treachery of Bernadotte.   That was a connection without passion

Charles XIV Bernadotte was Crown Prince of Sweden, and was responsible for the interests of Sweden.  Yes he had been a Marshal of France, but he had been introduced to higher obligations.

(I think he was king only after about 1820)

IIRC, Sweden was a member of the Augsburg alliance against France in the 1690s.

And your dear Basque Country is a colony of Castille.

The oldest standing alliance in Europe is between Portugal and England having started in 1373 and not in 1294. I'd appreciate that those that said 1294 could tell me their source.

I've already said that Polish Hungarians alliance started in 11th century. If I'm not wrong this is earlier than 1294 or 1373.

Here You have. History of Hungary:

http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/index.htm - http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/index.htm

8 THE MAGNIFICENT TWILIGHT

After the death of the last Arpad King (Endre III) lengthy disputes followed in Hungary, but eventually the majority of the nation accepted Charles Robert of Anjou, Prince of Naples, as its ruler.

This was a fortunate choice; for CHARLES ROBERT (1307-1342), a descendant of Arpad on his mother’s side and of the French Capetians on his father’s side, became a good king and the founder of a short-lived but truly Hungarian dynasty. At the beginning, many rich magnates opposed his election and Charles had to enforce his rule with arms in several cases. In this task he received the enthusiastic support of the lesser nobles dad freemen, who had been suffering from the tyranny of the semi-independent feudal barons during the preceding decades. Charles rewarded his loyal followers with the highest offices, giving the nation an entirely new, honest government of poor nobles.

In the characteristic Hungarian variant of the medieval State structure, the free members of the’ nation owed services to the King not through feudal tenure of their estates (for it was their freehold) but by virtue of the King’s power, conferred on him by a nation which had freely elected him. A "feudal" relationship in the western sense existed only between the free members of the nation and their serfs, who worked as tenant (share-) farmers, paid one tenth of their produce to the landlord and one tenth to the Church. (They were better off than today’s taxpayers). Otherwise they were free to change their landlords or enter ecclesiastical or military careers (as many did).

Charles Robert reorganized the nation’s finances. By the economical use of the country’s mineral wealth – almost all of it crown property – he made the Hungarian florin the most stable currency in Europe. Related by birth to the French and Spanish dynasties and by marriage to the Polish and Czech royal families, he used his family connections to extend Hungary’s authority well beyond the frontiers. Under his rule Hungary became the most respected power in Central Europe, a leader of ‘economic and political alliances, such as the Czech-Polish-Hungarian bloc, a medieval "common market" created to counter German economic domination. The Polish-Hungarian alliance proved itself also during the common campaigns against Poland’s pagan enemies and the quarrels with the Teutonic Knights.

His sumptuous court at Visegrad (north of Buda) represented the best of the western and Hungarian ideals of Christian chivalry and became a centre of late-gothic culture and knighthood.

* * *

Charles Robert’s son, LOUIS I (THE GREAT) (1342-1 382), inherited e crown of a prosperous, strong country. He was called the last of the knight-kings a truly Christian monarch, like his ideal, Saint Ladislas. He saw the danger of the Osmanli Turks’ advance in the Balkans against the declining Byzantian Empire. So he improved on his father’s somewhat hesitant foreign policy and created in the south and northeast of Hungary a protective belt of vassal states under various degrees of Hungarian supremacy. After King Casmir’s death, the Poles invited him to their throne (1370). During this successful (albeit, short) personal union, the dual empire represented a giant zone of peace and prosperity between the east and west of Europe.

Ironically the Anjou kings of Neapolitan origin had little success in their dealings with their own home-state, Naples. Louis’ brother, Andrew, had inherited, the Neapolitan throne but he fell victim to the intrigues of the court (and of his own Neapolitan wife) and was eventually assassinated. Louis reluctantly led two campaigns into Italy to punish the criminals but achieved only partial success.

Louis was also a patron of arts and sciences, founder of the first Hungarian University at Pecs (1367)

Appointed by the Pope "Captain of Christendom" to head a crusade against the Turks, he led several victorious campaigns against them in Bulgaria with his Hungarian troops. He could not fully exploit these victories as the other Christian nations gave him no aid in the "crusade". Venice, the great sea power actually supported the Turks.

Louis died in 1382 after a long illness, probably leprosy, which he had contracted during his campaigns. He had no male heir: only two daughters.

In the century which saw the twilight of the Middle Ages, the beginning of the Hundred Years’ War at Crecy (1346), the internal wars in Italy, France and England, the struggle between the Pope and The Holy Roman Emperor, the "Black Death" (1347-1350) and the Turkish landing at Gallipoli, a prosperous and strong Hungary was the bulwark of stability, strength and peace in Europe.

* * *

As a mark of particular respect for Louis, the nation accepted, with some reluctance, the succession of twelve-year old Mary to the throne of her father. Her younger sister, Hedwig (Saint Jadwiga), inherited Louis’ Polish throne. While the barons were looking for a suitable King-Consort for Mary, the temperamental dowager queen, Elizabeth, ruled in her daughter’s name. This impetuous woman and her friend, the Palatin Gara, caused a series of tragic incidents. A pretender to the throne, the. Neapolitan prince Charles of Durazzo, who was the favorite of the Croatian barons, was killed in Queen Elizabeth’s court under obscure circumstances. In revenge, the Croatians abducted the two queens and eventually killed Elizabeth. On being freed from her captors, Mary married Prince Sigismund of Luxemburg, the son of the German emperor, who was thus accepted as King-Consort and, after Mary’s death, as the ruling king.

SIGISMUND (1387-1437) was an energetic young man. Some Hungarian nobles refused to accept him for a long time, such as the legendary Kont of Hedervar and his 30 fellow nobles who were executed for treason.

Soon after his ascension, Sigismund organised a crusade against the Turks with the participation (for the first and last time) of the great western powers: the French, the English and the Poles. However, the battle of Nicopolis (1396) was lost for the crusaders for lack of co-operation among the various Christian contingents.

After the defeat, Sigismund turned his attention to Germany. After the crown of Bohemia, he soon gained the crown of Germany and in 1410 was elected Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. Upon his election he presided at the famous Council of Constance, trying to heal the ravages of the schisms, quarrels and internal wars of Christianity. He had tile Czech reformer, John Hus, executed. This roused the Czechs and caused a long, bloody civil war in Bohemia, Sigismund’s home-country.

Sigismund used Hungary’s considerable economic, military and political resources in obtaining his goals in Germany, but cared very little for the country, which gave him his strength. He gave up his plans to chase the Turks out of Europe. It was a tragic omission, as it was during this period that the Mongol ruler, Timur Lenk (Tamerlan) inflicted several crushing defeats upon the Turks in Asia and it would have been relatively easy to chase them out of Europe.

During his last years Sigismund tried to make up for his "absenteeism" and to befriend the Hungarians, but the resentful Magyars never quite accepted him as a truly Hungarian king

* * *

After Sigismund’s death the Hungarians turned to their traditional friends, the Poles, and invited the brave Prince Wiadislas (l440-l444) to the throne. Wladislas accepted the invitation and immediately undertook the struggle against the Osmanli Empire with the assistance of the greatest Hungarian general, JOHN HUNYADI. This great soldier of the Turkish wars was a professional officer of humble origins. By 1441 he became the commander of the southern forces of Hungary and the richest landlord in the country. He used his immense fortune to finance his campaigns against the Turks. His victories contained the Turkish advance for decades. Hunyadi was the typical representative of the militant Christian Hungarian who united religious fervor with ardent patriotism.

By 1443 he had pushed the Turks back to Bulgaria and restored the rule of the friendly Serbian king, an ally of Hungary. Wiadislas, following the Pope’s call for yet another crusade, attacked the Sultan’s army at Varna, in Bulgaria (1444). Though the Turks outnumbered the Hungarians and their allies four to one, Hunyadi’s strategy seemed to win the day. Then the impetuous King charged the Turks at the head of his Polish and Hungarian cavalry – and lost his life as well as the battle. Hunyadi himself escaped with difficulty

The infant Ladislas V (1445-1457) was elected king and during his infancy Hunyadi was elected Regent.

Sultan Mohammed conquered Byzantium (Constantinople, today Istanbul) in 1453. The Pope again urged the western nations to raise a crusade but this time no one came: the Hungarians were alone as Hunyadi wrote to the Pope: " . . . we only, left alone, have endured the fury of the war . . ." The Sultan led his huge army, reinforced with heavy artillery (a new feature on the battlefields of Europe) against Hungary.

Hunyadi and his friend, (Saint) John Capistrano, a Franciscan monk, hastily organised the Hungarians while the Pope ordered prayers all over Europe. Hunyadi’s strategy, the blood of the Magyar soldiers and the prayers triumphed once more: the Turks were utterly defeated at Nandorfehervar (today Belgrade) in 1456 and Europe could again breathe a sigh of relief. The Pope ordered that the bells should toll every day at noon in memory of Hunyadi’s great victory.

There was rejoicing in Europe – but mourning in Hungary. On the morrow of the victory Hunyadi and his friend, the survivors of countless battles died victims of the plague….

those were mostly French and German rulers, and Hungary and Poland were only unified during Henrys rule. there was a much logner line of Lithuanian kigns on teh Polish throne. i think you should make friends with the Lithuanians again instead of making up myths.

@Mosquito: Ok, maybe Kosciusko wasn't precisely Ukrainian, at last he was Ruthenian, not Polish. yes i've forgotten, Dickmann was in fact Dutch, not German, i got confused by the name.

those were mostly French and German rulers, and Hungary and Poland were only unified during Henrys rule. there was a much logner line of Lithuanian kigns on teh Polish throne. i think you should make friends with the Lithuanians again instead of making up myths.

@Mosquito: Ok, maybe Kosciusko wasn't precisely Ukrainian, at last he was Ruthenian, not Polish. yes i've forgotten, Dickmann was in fact Dutch, not German, i got confused by the name.

You are confusing things really often. Maybe You haven't noticed but almost every Your argument is being untrue. The same is here. Don't know who You mean by Henry. Poland had 2 common kings with Hungary: Wladyslaw Warnenczyk and Ludwik Andegaven. But Hungarians had also 2 Jagiellonian kings and we had one Hungarian - Bathory. Only one of this king was a French. But he was also Arpads descendant. Rest is lithuanian-polish and Hungarian. We've never had any German kings except of 2 kings of Saxonian dynasty. I have to add they are consider to be one of our worst kings very close to number one Michal Korybut Wisniowiecki.

You are right with Lithuanians we were best allies during 1386-1795. Almost one nation. I say about gentry of course. But Lithuanians say there were deeply hurt by Polish during this period which I consider really strange.

I said the oldest standing alliance. Hungary lost its independence in the early 16th century against the Ottomans, having latter been incorporated in the Austrian empire, only regaining its independence after WW1. As for Poland, it lost its independence in the 18th century after its partition between Austria, Prussia and Russia, only regaining it after WW1. So, as you can see there was not a standing alliance.

Also, I'd like to know what is your purpose with this topic. There were many alliances and friendships in Europe during and before the 11th century. Do you think that reclaiming a "priority" makes the Poles and Hungarians more special?

well if you enter "anglo-portuguese 1294" in google you'll have 2000 sites to choose from.

I agree with you. I also think that it is being overrated. Friendly words costs nothing but bring no effects.

Paul, thanks for your answer, but in 1294 there was a commercial treaty between Portugal and England. That is not the same as a formal alliance, which is the topic of this thread.

Also, I'd like to know what is your purpose with this topic. There were many alliances and friendships in Europe during and before the 11th century. Do you think that reclaiming a "priority" makes the Poles and Hungarians more special?

Thi is a very strange question.

I guess I was bored and decided to start this topic. I asked You to name other alliances in Europe and say something about it. You said about England and Portugal and I agree with this.

P.S. I'm just tring to prove my tesis. Isn't that what we all tring to do. Would be boring if we agree in everything. 

1) Status of Hungary during Maria Theresa and his son.

In these times Hungary was a part of the Habsburg Empire. This was a dynastic empire made from a set of different states. Hungary was able to hold its constitution, legal system etc. De iure Hungary was an independent kingdom. De facto the central administration of the dynasty (not Austria) largely influenced domestic policy and completely ruled foreign policy.

Maria Theresa had a special status. He was a queen of Hungary, Bohemia and archduchess of Austria. He was not an empress of the Holy Roman Empire although she later married to the emperor. That's why she was usually refered as queen of Hungary, this was her primary title. (first partition) [By the way Spain did not stop to exist under Charles V.]

During his son Joseph the Hungarian constitution was suspended, and the country was incorporated to a unified administration. He tried to make one country from his countries. He failed. On his deathbed he had to abolish all of his decrees except the about the abolishment of  serfdom. (second partition)

2) Polish Hungarian relationship

During the last millenia it was various, but I dare say that it was more times good than bad. The main Polish interests lied in Eastern Europe while Hungary generally interested in the Balkans. I can remember only two wars. In the begining of the XI. century Boleslaus temporary captured some territories in Northern Hungary, an under king Mathias I there was a war for the possesion of Bohemia.

The countries shared common rulers two times: 1370-82 (a Hungarian), 1440-44 (a Pole).

Do Hungarians still repeat the words coming from poem of Sandor Petofi:

Magyar es lengyel jo barat

Karddal s pohar kozt egyarant.

During the last millenia it was various, but I dare say that it was more times good than bad. The main Polish interests lied in Eastern Europe while Hungary generally interested in the Balkans. I can remember only two wars. In the begining of the XI. century Boleslaus temporary captured some territories in Northern Hungary, an under king Mathias I there was a war for the possesion of Bohemia.

The countries shared common rulers two times: 1370-82 (a Hungarian), 1440-44 (a Pole).

There were also three invasions in XVII century. In 1620 we invaded Hungary and during swedish deluge Hungarians invaded Poland and our army answered by another invasion.

It were invasions against Transilvania, not against Hungary.

• Holy Roman Emperor
• King of Germany
• Archduke of Austria; Duke of Styria, Carinthia and Carniola; Count of Tyrol
• King of Bohemia
  
• King of Hungary
• Duke of Milan
• King of Naples and Sicily
• King of Sardinia
• King of Aragon, Valencia and Mallorca; Count of Barcelona
• King of Castile and Leon, Count of Alava, Lord of Biscay
• King of Navarre
  
• Duke of Gelders, Brabant, Limburg, Luxemburg and Lothier; Count of Artois, Burgundy, Flanders, Hainaut, Holland, Namur, Zeeland and Zutphen

Maju:

Charles V. never was the king of Hungary and Bohemia. His younger brother, Ferdinand was elected to king in both countries.

Maju:

Charles V. never was the king of Hungary and Bohemia. His younger brother, Ferdinand was elected to king in both countries.

It were invasions against Transilvania, not against Hungary.

Yes but iwas a Hungarian princedom.

I think you refered Red Ruthenia (Galich), which was a disputed territory. This question was settled only in 1355. Polish rule was recognized, but Hungary had the right to resume it if a son of Kazimierz would have been born.

Sure! Spain-Portugal, Norway-Sweden, Slovenia-Croatia, Romania-Bulgaria...

And you scratch Serbs and Greeks out, because Byzantine empire which was Greek was the worst enemy to the Serbs until the Otoman arrival.

Sure! Spain-Portugal, Norway-Sweden, Slovenia-Croatia, Romania-Bulgaria...

And you scratch Serbs and Greeks out, because Byzantine empire which was Greek was the worst enemy to the Serbs until the Otoman arrival.

Ok, I just thought that they should like each other being Orthodox just like Polish and Austrians.

Originally posted by Subotai Originally posted by majkes1  Romania-Bulgaria... I just cant remember when was that?

Can you remember Bulgarian-Romanian wars? I can't.