Anouther great topic, Mashaallah!!!

You really should have put a warning on the title, the pics really got to my heart.

Cant wait for the 21st century crusade to end, those terrorists in Iraq should just leave

Peace to Iraq, Peace to the world!!!

WOW. man, those are some deep imagery.

and osmali, take that map off, it refers to Persian gulf as "Arabian gulf".

Where the soldiers crying due to their fellow soldiers death or because of the death of Iraqis?

Also if they feel so bad at the going on in Iraq and yet they still carry on with the same action then they are even worse then they originally were. Since they have seen the error of their ways and yet are continiuing to act in the same manner.

They should rather be a conscientious objector. Then they would have my full respect.

those images are shocking, that crying little girl with her sirious wonds.......no comment

They suffered much under saddam.

I prefer better evil.

It is easy to persuade a child Ahmed, dont you think saddam have enough pictures with child?

It is not a persuade issue it is life issue every onecan understand it as he like.

maybe we are different then each one have his sight to things.

BTW where you've been, you disappeared last weeks.

At east anatolia, went to malatya(A city more near Baghdat than Ankara) for my job and had not much time.

By the way, where did you find this pictures? It looks like mila and you are not using some webpage

Please take another look Mortaza. 

Pike which pictures? at the death ones or laughing childs? There are a lot picture.

I think there is enough empathy in a G.I. to feel for both his comrades and civilians.  No one is enjoying this.

No,we are not using the same website.

Malatya I know it.

 it was a border city between Arab empire and Byzantine empire.

The soldiers families send candy and gifts over in care packages usually by request of the soldier. The soldiers are human, they aren't being asked by the government to hand out gifts as it's not their job. But they go on the same patrol routes every day and see alot of the locals often.

Alot of the soldiers over there went because they wanted to fight terrorist after 9/11, others went to bring democracy to Iraq, some went for the benefit of getting a free college schalorship, to have a sense of honor in serving there country at a young age, and some went because they feel if they go they can help releave soldiers that have been there longer then their tour of duty allowing them to come home.

The soldiers families send candy and gifts over in care packages usually by request of the soldier. The soldiers are human, they aren't being asked by the government to hand out gifts as it's not their job. But they go on the same patrol routes every day and see alot of the locals often.

Come on, same soldiers were killing them and torturing them, I wont count candy and gifts much.

By the way, noone is saying soldiers are unhuman. But what they did in iraq has not much relation with idea of humanity.

Alot of the soldiers over there went because they wanted to fight terrorist after 9/11,

Well I think they were looking wrong place, Saddam was a brutal dictator, but there is not a love between saddam and binladen.

others went to bring democracy to Iraq,

No comment

some went for the benefit of getting a free college schalorship,

At least this guys have some reason, not a good reason but some reason.

 to have a sense of honor in serving there country at a young age,

Yeah we have same honor in Turkey too, but I dont believe it.

some went because they feel if they go they can help releave soldiers that have been there longer then their tour of duty allowing them to come home.

Uh, sacrifice?

I think you just missed main reason, oil.

Ugly city, I think this is reason why arabs stoped.

Most of these photos were taken by Journalists accompanying the US army, so I can imagine that there is a restriction on what snopshots to take and what time.

Though I know deep inside that many American soldiers care about the civilians and the Iraqi people, it doesn't change the fact of their government's motives in invading Iraq. In fact, the unjust cause is so clear that many US soldiers will commmit atrocities because simply the whole war is an aggression. It is a psychological fact that many more American soldiers hate the war, hate Iraq, hate the government that brought them for such unbelievable causes and they will show it on their actions. For instance, April 2nd 2004, CAIR (council on American-Islamic Relation) the biggest organization in the the US for muslim rights has released a statement in objection to this photo that came out from a US soldier who came back from Iraq ( http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1058&theType=NR - link ):

Just in case, the sign says "Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad, th(en) he knocked up my sister!"  

Though I dislike many groups of the Iraqi resistance for their techniques, but I don't admire too the US army at all. In fact, I will go with Mortaza, for the lesser evil. Now that this lesser evil is alone in Iraq, I have no sympathy whatsoever to any US soldier in Iraq.

There are many photos showing disgusting acts too, why not show images from Abu Ghraib or of those shipped of on holiday to Guantanamo.  In one of your pictures it depicts a Kurdistan flag, thus indicating its in a Kurdish area. These areas are peacefull. For example a major city in that area of Suleymania is carrying on as if there is no war. It clear why, America is aiming at dividing the communities. WHy else are they aiming for three federated areas.

Do the Sunni's think they are getting a better deal than the time of Saddam? but wait a minute even the Shia's are revolvting.

Democracy-Not mentioning whether its good or bad, but every state has their own right (even a democratic right) to choose the type of government they want. I do not like Saddams reign either, however in his period the was a whole lot more stability.

I do agree with those of you in saying that the soldiers are people too, which goes then to my earlier point about why dont they be conscientious objectors for a war which is clearly for:

• Oil
• Gaining a base in a strategic point in the ME
• Destroying any threat to Israel (Why Iran next?)
• Dividing and creating even more divisions between Muslims (federated states, playing with the Sunni, Shia divisions and creating friction, Nationalism: Helping Kurdish separatists not only in Iraq but also in Turkey)
• Implementation of globalisation, Western world style

Noone can be worse than saddam, he killed a lot kurds without mercy. I still remember a child died at the hand of his mother.

If compared with Saddam, USA is angel.

For sunnis getting worse life, It is normal. They supported saddam, and with the fall of saddam, their life becamed worse.

Saddam was a filthy scum for sure.

However, I don't see a difference between US responses to oppositions and Saddam. It is almost identical. Saddam killed civilians in collective punishments and to test his weapons, and US has done so in Fallujah, Samara, Ramadhi and other cities that shows a form of resistance. Isnt the white phosophorus case something to note too? Cluster bombs, depleted uranium missles, that all effect civlians more than insurgents.

Saddam tortured in his security chambers. Guess what? the US did in Abu Gharib and the Iraqi elected government decided to take the exact steps and methods of Saddam in torturing in the secrets tunnels discovered two weeks ago and the Iraqi government promised to investigate them. Investigate secret torture chambers under your Interior Ministry building !?!

Saddam used propogandas for his war on Iran and the Gulf and in all his policies. Guess what again? Just last week BBC published an article and the white housed called it "shocking" to know that the US army in Iraq was paying for pro-American and pro-governmental articles to appear on newspaper written by writers and journalist as "independant".

Nothing is different between US and Saddam in Iraq except the magnitude of their atrocities only.

I'm also surprised that a lot of Iraqi Shiite and Kurds will idolize the US forgetting that after 1991 liberation of Kuwait, Bush the father called for the Iraqi people to raise against Saddam and the US will pack them up. They did in Southern Iraq and in Kurdistan part of Iraq and the US just watched them being massacred and butchered by Saddam without intervention.

Killing and torturing who? If you mean the ones in the one prison incident, that hardly qualifies the thinking of every soldier. One soldier when he got back admitted to performing torture, but said he himself would have been imprisoned if he didn't. Now he has a campaign in the US against the war.

I'm talking about the people who go on daily pratrols, not those who are guard duty in a prison, they don't get the chance to hand out candy unless they are off duty. But I doubt when they get the little free time they are aloud that it would be off base.

You do understand the soldiers don't get a choice on where to go right? If the military tells them to goto Iraq, thats where they are going. I honestly hope you knew that though.

This I agree with you on. It woouldn't be a reason for me to go, atleast from the start of the war. But maybe now to help those Iraqi's that want democracy, but I agree that it's not a reason to start a war over.

At least this guys have some reason, not a good reason but some reason.

Right now I'm not sure what I want to do with my life. I've been thinking of serving in the military for this reason. If I join the Navy I could learn a trade there and go to college. So I could learn a second trade on top of the one I already know, get paid to goto college, and serving 4 years I believe gives me a extra pay check for the rest of my life. Might be more then 4 years though.

Yeah we have same honor in Turkey too, but I dont believe it.

Us Americans are very proud of our nation.As I know alot of you Turkish are proud of your nation too. While I can't comment on Turkey as I really don't have a strong point for your history, the US was founded on a war for our own freedom, we faught in a civil war to keep what we believed in, and we stood up against Japan after they attacked us. America isn't perfect, only the blind would say that, but from the extreme right or the extreme left we all agree we are American and we are more proud of that.

Our flag represents those who faught with courage, and died for that flag, thats what the red and white stand for, and thats where the honor comes from.

Uh, sacrifice?

No one has to die to go over their, odds are they will be coming back. But some people feel it's wrong for a soldier to stay there longer then they are supposed to, especially if they never expected going, like alot of Gulf war vets, some reaching their 40s were sent over. I myself thought of joining because I didn't think it was right.

I think you just missed main reason, oil.

Oh I'm sorry, here I thought we were talking about the small man, the grunt, the guy who does the dirty work, the soldiers? Unless your telling me every soldier who joins gets a certificate saying they get a portion of the profit from oil? I haven't heard of this yet.

I think you might have the soldiers mixed up with the Bush adminstration, but even thats debatable and I don't even support Bush. I suggest doing alittle research if you think every soldier is gonna get anything with the oil. I doubt a couple of jars filled with unrefined oil will get the average soldier anywhere.

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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey

Cok gec, that soldier you posted is sickening. I can't believe someone would do that, but thats human nature at it's worst. Anything to find a laugh. A real classless guy, he should be ashamed to wear the uniform.  

That man is very insulting to me as a American, it's people like him that give us a bad name... I'm really sorry to see that.

 Search&destroy, turly the image does not represent at all (and in any form) the American people, but the rates of such images are spread enough to explain the wasted effort of the US army in reparing its image.

Mila, it is not the worst image you have seen neither me. I've seen images of Chinese soldiers punishing a traitor in WWII by cutting his flesh piece by piece. Turkish army soldiers holding heads of PKK fighters next to their bodies, the infamous picture of Celebici prison of Bosnian soldiers executing Serb prisoners in a war crime act, and of couse Iraqi terrorist groups who slaughter hostages as sheeps.

Many war crimes on prisoners and soldiers, but when it comes to civlians its weight is higher for sure and those images are extremely damaging especially for an army that likes to label itself  as "the liberators" of Iraq.

Bush Admits 30,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed.  Independent estimates claim well over 100,000.  Iraq is now a warzone, if US leaves now, the country will fragment.  This is all Bush & Blairs fault. 

I feel sympathetic for these young soldiers who go and fight in a war they dont really understand just so they can get themselves out of the war they live in their own lives in the US, in their bad neighborhoods and families.  At the same time, the real losers of this war are not the US soldiers, there the Iraqi people.

Soldiers taking pictures is fine with me, especially when they want to show the public what they go through.   At the same time, US troops taking pictures of  dead and mutilated Iraqis to get access to Porn, and using it as propaganda, SHAME on them.  There is another side of this war after you cut open the soft underbelly of the media.  Its the war where detainees get sent to secret jails across the world to get tortured.  Nations and sites as far off as Uzbekistan, Balkans, Guantanamo, Bagram, Taiwan, Thailand, countries and areas known for their inhumane treatment of political prisoners.  Some of these detainees never are heard of again.  The other war is the war of words and propaganda.  Where multimedia conglomerates own public news in the United States.  News based on ratings and money and telling people what they WANT to hear. News that keeps people occupied about scandals and not about the real news.

War has many faces.

Heres a story no US soldier will show you of: 

Dilawars Untold Story

The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.

Mr. Dilawar asked for a drink of water, and one of the two interrogators, Specialist Joshua R. Claus, 21, picked up a large plastic bottle. But first he punched a hole in the bottom, the interpreter said, so as the prisoner fumbled weakly with the cap, the water poured out over his orange prison scrubs. The soldier then grabbed the bottle back and began squirting the water forcefully into Mr. Dilawar's face.

"Come on, drink!" the interpreter said Specialist Claus had shouted, as the prisoner gagged on the spray. "Drink!"

At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.

"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying.

Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.

In a Feb. 3, 2004, statement, Brand acknowledged that at another time, he delivered more than 30 knee strikes to Dilawar. Asked what provoked the punishment, Brand told investigators he couldn't remember.

Dilawar died from "blunt force trauma to the lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease," Rouse said. Habibullah another inmate, died of a pulmonary embolism apparently formed in his legs from the beatings.

Dilawar was so brutalized before his death that his thigh tissue was "pulpified," a forensic pathologist testified Tuesday at a preliminary hearing for a military police officer charged in the 2002 assault.

"It was similar to injuries of a person run over by a bus," said Lt. Col. Elizabeth Rouse, who performed an autopsy on the detainee

The story of Mr. Dilawar's brutal death at the Bagram Collection Point - and that of another detainee, Habibullah, who died there six days earlier in December 2002 - emerge from a nearly 2,000-page confidential file of the Army's criminal investigation into the case, a copy of which was obtained by The New York Times.

Most soldiers accused of the crimes were acquitted or given lenient punishments not resulting in any adequate jail time.

Let me define what oppose mean in saddam Dictionary it mean any critic  word you say it about him or his regime.

If you said a bad word or just a joke about him you would go to jail. and your skin would be grill.

Not all Sunnies supported Saddam many Sunnies stand against him.  and their life is very good except in 'Al Anbar' cause the Terrorists hold the area by iron hand and the Americans  are not effective to handle the situation.

Cok  all iraqis are not idolize USA but what can we do in this hard situation.Iraqis still remember 1991 when USA gave the permission to saddam to fly over nofly zone he used helecopter to smash the rebels without mercy many innocents killed.

Now we must move on I must take the advantage to build my future with my people without differences.

as you said the Iraqi resistance tachniqe is unacceptable each time the civilian is the target.

 therefore there are no ways except political way and rebuild Iraqi army it's loyal to iraq not to a figurehead like the shameful,any military operation  in iraq will never solve the problems.

I think the next goverment will solve the crisis because it will represents all iraqi people.

Osmanli your fears are commenced but don't let the emotion reaction affected you.

 First america spend 2 billion $ every week in Iraq iraqi oil now cannot cover this cost and america already have all gulf countries import oil from them,I don't think the Oil is a main reason.

Second america already have startigic base in ME in Turky,Kuwait,Qatar,Bahrain.

Third America still support Arab until 1967 didn't support Israel but the Arab and all muslims were very stupid in that time like Jamal abdel Alnaser and others didn't take the advantage and Israel is democratic country and almost muslim country are not then United state prefer to deal with free country, I am not here to defend Israel but that is the truth they have democracy and we not.

Forth The kurds are a nation and deserve to have their state but I don't think they will do. why this sensitive with kurds.

BTW I am not Kurdish.

You do understand the soldiers don't get a choice on where to go right? If the military tells them to goto Iraq, thats where they are going. I honestly hope you knew that though.

I think we have  a communication problem here. I know soldiers  are not bad, of course they(except a small minority) dont want to kill or harm other but what they did as a whole body is this. I am not accusing soldiers.

Us Americans are very proud of our nation.As I know alot of you Turkish are proud of your nation too. While I can't comment on Turkey as I really don't have a strong point for your history, the US was founded on a war for our own freedom, we faught in a civil war to keep what we believed in, and we stood up against Japan after they attacked us. America isn't perfect, only the blind would say that, but from the extreme right or the extreme left we all agree we are American and we are more proud of that.

Our flag represents those who faught with courage, and died for that flag, thats what the red and white stand for, and thats where the honor comes from.

Be sure my nation met  more war, we are fighting almost 1000 year for this land. our blood also gave our  flag clour(Red)

Some times our nation was called as an army nation.

but I dont believe that honor much, Specialy If you were warring others land. fighting your own land is different than occupying Iraq.

I think you might have the soldiers mixed up with the Bush adminstration, but even thats debatable and I don't even support Bush. I suggest doing alittle research if you think every soldier is gonna get anything with the oil. I doubt a couple of jars filled with unrefined oil will get the average soldier anywhere.

As I said, I dont believe average soldier is bad. I am not anti-american, (they helped world much, they stoped a  blood bath at balkain) I am not even against this war, I  am complately support stoping  saddam (even with wish of oil).  But way  of making war is complately unjust.

they should punish torturers, but It looks like this torturers are free, and It  was a policy of USA goverment.

Just type in "Dilawar US Abuse" in Google.  You can find articles throughout, as well as a listing in wikipedia.

THats what I thought at first.  But Iraq is not a short term investment, its a long term investment.  By 2030, America's consumption of Petroleum will increase.

Source:  http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/figure_6.html - http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/figure_6.html

Furthermore, this isnt just a US problem.

China, with its rapidly growing economy, 1.3 billion people, and millions of new cars, has just passed Japan to become the second largest consumer of oil after the U.S. In 2003, China consumed more than five mbd, of which more than 35 percent was imported. By 2030, China will need to import 80 percent of the 12 mbd it is expected to need. India, with its 1 billion people and surging economy, also has a growing thirst for oil, most of which will have to be imported.

Unknown nations like Kazakhstan are making alliances with the west.  Even though they also have a dictator (who somehow managed to secure his seat for the 3RD time, with 91% of the votes), US is choosing to turn a blind eye so long as energy interests are met.

Read this article about Qazakhstan: 

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GL06Ag01.html - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GL06Ag01.html

All tolled, today, the world is consuming a little over 80 mbd (30 billion barrels per year). By 2030, global demand is expected to grow by 50 percent to 120 mbd (45 billion barrels per year).

"Iraq will not be a push over"

Al-Mahdi:

Fayadin:

Fallujah:

The resistance is real.

where did you see that?

Refer back to London Weekly "The Euorpean" January 11-17 edition of the  magazine.

"The pictures published here are evidence of that took place in April 1995 in the district of Hakkari in the Kurdish regions of southeastern Turkey. The perpetrators of this act were Turkish soldiers, members of the Hakkari Mountain Brigadier Command, and the victims are rebillion Kurds"

Please be aware that the following photos are of a graphic nature. I will post the links only:

Posting the Turkish soldier photo is similar in that sense. I could have posted photos of torture of prisoners in Turkey (not hard to find at at all), however, I choose the issue of those Turkish soldiers. While they are claiming to be presenters of a modern civilized state fighting "terrorist" kurdish groups, you are shocked to see such photos of disrespect to human body and ironically much worse than what those "terrorist" Kurdish groups are presented in the media propoganda. Unfortunately I had to post them after I was asked to do so. I consulted an administrator and only after failing to have it sent privately to the questioning person via PM, I decided to post them here. So simply, im not in a competition to post more disgusting videos or photos because I can fill up a whole thread of them, but they won't serve my point at all.