Presidential debate
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Intellectual discussions
Forum Discription: Discuss political and philosophical theories, religious beliefs and other academic subjects
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=757
Printed Date: 04-May-2024 at 15:05
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Topic: Presidential debate
Posted By: Kubrat
Subject: Presidential debate
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2004 at 19:03
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What I noticed was how Kerry was taking the time to jot down notes and
prepare what he was going to say in rebuttal to Bush. Bush didn't
really do that as much. Also, Bush's posture was so bad that it
hurt my back just looking at him. What I also didn't like was the way that Bush would smirk or try to 'slyly' assault Kerry. The thing is Bush will resort to anything to win. Enough with the flip-flop tactic. I'd rather have a president sensible enough to realize he made a mistake than one who will stick to one in order to keep his pride. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Replies:
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2004 at 19:03
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What I noticed was how Kerry was taking the time to jot down notes and
prepare what he was going to say in rebuttal to Bush. Bush didn't
really do that as much. Also, Bush's posture was so bad that it
hurt my back just looking at him. What I also didn't like was the way that Bush would smirk or try to 'slyly' assault Kerry. The thing is Bush will resort to anything to win. Enough with the flip-flop tactic. I'd rather have a president sensible enough to realize he made a mistake than one who will stick to one in order to keep his pride. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2004 at 19:04
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Umm, why did my message go to the top when I posted? And why is there two?
------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 21:46
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I think Kerry was the clear-cut winner. Bush was very nervous when Kerry would bring up some of the faults of his policies and his decisions. Bush was running out of things to say and was repeating himself too much. Did you guys watch it? Who do you think "won" the debate and why? Which issues are important to you and how were they discussed among the two candidates? ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 22:42
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Even though I am by no means a big fan of Kerry (who I think has his
own faults galore) by tonight's performance I can clearly say that Bush
was losing big time. He cannot talk when there is no set text for him
to read from and obviously doesn't have logical answers to give to to
the obvious questions that were going to be asked. He -rather
unsuccessfully- tried to divert the subject by repeating the exact same
things over and over again; and in my humble opinion, failed miserably.
I'm afraid with how the things are going he still has a good chance to
win, however. Back to Kerry, what bothers me most with him is that he is not exactly radically different from Bush on certain matters. Of course that was the whole point of his candidacy, that Howard Dean was too 'liberal' and John Kerry would be able to take some of the votes the disillusioned Republicans were willing to spare on some 'middle-way' guy. His failure to mention the lie about 'mass destruction weapons' (I don't see the need to phrase is as 'weapons of mass destruction' as it is clearly a grammatical mistake on Bush's part, given his capacity with My Pet Goat) was a big mistake, for example when he was talking about the lies G.W. Bush uttered to the American people. This is so clear that there were no such weapons or the Iraqi forces would have been using them from the start instead of trying to run and hide in holes in the ground. I'm not exactly too keen on Kerry's views on the continuation of the war either however I see that it is not exactly the right time to pull of from Iraq and leave the country in a state much worse than before -in total chaos and anarchy to destabilise the region even more. In any case, it is clear that another 4 year term with Bush will be catastrophic, concerning both internal and foreign affairs -unless of course one is an oil billionaire who is getting tax-cuts and more profits thanks to the war. Or if one is the CEO of one of the pharmacological corporations who will enjoy the new legislation in prescription drugs if it passes (and it will pass, if Bush wins another term). What is so sad is that the American policy concerns the WHOLE wide world and yet only the American people have a say on it -and they usually prefer not to care, if one is to take the statistics about the average voting population to account. Depressing, really. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 04:49
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Due to tume zone differences it was 2:45 in the night here when the
debate started. I tried to stay awake, but eventually I decided to go
to sleep. I hope I'll view one of the next debates, though. ------------- |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 05:16
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Actually, I didn't get to catch the presidential debates. But I did catch my state's gubernatorial debate. It was actually a three party debate. Something I think the presidential debate should key in on. Too bad our democratic-republican party (yea that's right their both the same party) won't let any other parties in on their monopolized TV time. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 06:37
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Victory definitely went to Kerry. Bush seemed to be doing alright, but after a few minutes his arguments kept coming back to the same thing. "The world (or America, he used this so many times I couldn't keep up) is better off without Suddam Hussein." Even though I think he's somewhat correct, I don't believe that it justifies invading and occupying another nation. ------------- |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 07:54
They are all going to be at roughly the same time though surely? Unless theres one on in New York in the morning. -------------  Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: maersk
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 12:14
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to sum it up in a few words..............bush got owned ------------- "behold, vajik, khan of the magyars, scourge of the pannonian plain!" |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 17:54
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Evildoer, in a true democracy, not a representative democracy, all issues are decided in the majoritarian way. But a true republic is a government where representatives of the people rule the nation, hence the US. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 16:27
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it was boring, Id rather watch a debate with all parties included. Kerry did win, but thats doenst mean much in the long run, though it definately re-iterated the bush campaign in a bad way, they try to market bush as the everyman, a guy u would want to have a barbeque with etc, but I hope that debate showed people its better to have a stogy intellectual for president than some redneck. I do not want the president to be my friend I wat him to be a good presidetn! ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 19:32
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I took 3 pages of notes myself during the debates - it was interesting although they both talked a lot of trash. I don't like Kerry, but I loath Bush as I do a pile of sewage. Bush hesistated for 5 seconds 3 or four times, cast evil looks at Kerry, crossed his eyes and pressed his lips together foolishly and used too many cliched phrases over and over. He accused Kerry of being "inconsistant" 12 times lol. |
Posted By: Roughneck
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 20:51
My favorite line was the whole "what kind of message does that send?" Kerry CRUSHED Bush. Kerry is now tied or ahead in every poll! And Georgie boy...you got two more of these! The inconsistency thing...people do tend to change their minds when they spend 17 years in Congress. People think over the issues and decide that maybe there's a better way. Look at Zell Miller, the ultimate flip-flopper! I mean, everyone says Bush is too dogmatic but Kerry flip-flops...what the hell do you want? Kerry isn't radically different from Bush...except that he actually has a plan. Bring in the allies, REAL allies! Yes yes, Britain, Austrialia, and Polish Special Forces were there, but that was all. Of the rest of the nations now there, I think only 8 of them have more than 1,000 troops there. Britain has only I think 8,000 left, or am I shooting too high? This is a coalition? I mean, personally, large parts of me wouldn't mind just letting the nation slip into whatever hole it's digging for itself, but we did that in Afghanistan once before, and look what happened.------------- |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 23:25
That, and the fact that Blair actually apologised publicly and is trying to save face now with the whole Iraq thing. I'm just worried about the whole conspiracy thing going on about how G.W. is planning something catastrophic to happen or that they already have Bin Laden and will make it public right before the elections. Outrageous all these theories might sound I'm not sure if I'd be surprised what with the possible fraud in the last elections and in a country where Arnold Schwarzenegger is mayor and talks about 'girlie men'. |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 15:14
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Actually he's a governor. In the US mayor's are in charge of cities and governor's in charge of states. As to the possible election fraud, how many nations have offered to make sure the US's election is legal, like we do for many third world countries? ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:01
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I think there was talk of letting the UN monitor the elections Although that would create mass hysteria that even the US isn't really democratic. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:42
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It is? ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:48
Well, that it isn't really a republic  .For true democracy to work we'd have to live in some kind of anarcho-communistic world... ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 19:21
Ah, right, sorry. It's hard to get used to the whole state system. Well, it's even worse that he is the governor in any case. |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 14:51
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Actually America is doubtlessly a republic, because a Republic is a state without a Monarch. But as to the question of wether it is democratic and free... that can be debated. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 17:01
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http://whitehouse.org/news/2004/093004.asp - http://whitehouse.org/news/2004/093004.asp
transcript! ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 22:44
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Actually there's currently talk in the senate about allowing foreign born americans the oppurtunity to be elected president. So my prediction Ahnold! 2008. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 23:30
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. I can just imagine his presidential speech. Hopefully by 2008 I'll be done with school and safely out of Ahnold's touch if that be the case.  |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 16:10
Lol, you can't deny my prediction now, just look at warlord's sig.  ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 14:42
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the town hall forum is a sham, they say the same damn things they would have anyway, but I liked watching the people in the background, like that obscenely fat man or the lady who was glowering at Bush. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 08:00
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I watched the debate last night and I thought Bush did very well, he was very poised and elegant. I predict that this will make Ohio and Pennsylvania, which were slightly for Kerry by 1 or 2 points, back to a dead-heat. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 08:10
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But Bush couldn't get that angry I-am-going-to-punch-you look off his face. Plus he argued with the moderator for 10 seconds about going over speech time. Some mistakes made by Bush: "If he was the President, Saddam Hussein would still have been in power and the world would be a bettter place for it!" (I could not trust my ears, so I verified the comment by looking at the subtitles.) "Internets" .... rather like saying homeworks "Remove somebody (Hussein) in Iraq" - rather vague. He said that Dred Scott case verified the white man to own a black man. That was not true - it stated that a black man was not a citizen, therefore could not make appeals to the court! "He (Hussein) tortured his own people on tax-cuts" - What???!?! I verified this comment with subtitles as well. He called Canada a Third World country... I made notes during the debates. I definately did not like the townhall style because there was much more acting and dramatizing rather than spitting out the info outright. Plus some of the questions were just too vague, if not outrightly ridiculous. (...solemn pledge to not increase taxes! what is this, some medieval peasent rebel-leader negociating with a feudal lord?) Both candidates are using too much of cliches "I have a plan!" and "world is a better place for it!". But perhaps the tasteless masses like that. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:21
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I preState elction redictions:
Lets see if Im right november 2 Florida-Bush Pennsylvania-Kerry New Mexico-Kerry Missouri-Bush I must admit I have no idea about Ohio though, Pennsylvania's western inferior is a tricky one! ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:24
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I find these debates so unwatchable. How do you yanks manage it? ------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:32
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I actually liked the first debate - I made 3 pages of notes on it! I hated the second debate. It was boring, chaotic, vulgar and filled with play-acting and cliche-mongering. |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:41
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You took notes? Sheeze, on what, Bush's body language? ------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 12:49
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Yea, that and stupid statement made by Bush. Plus the candidates' postitions on obscure issues such as Sudan. Interesting stats: 75% of opium comes from Afghanistan etc. These are useful for me because I am in the school Debate Team, and we usually do debate on political issues.
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Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 17:53
Bush definitely did better in the second debate, but since I am pro-Kerry, that is a bad thing for me  .Bush needs about 50 more IQ points to be a satisfactory president for me. And be about 50% more for the average guy. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 17:59
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Most people to agree with you Kubrat, but I don't agree. His face was just filled with rage, and he just rambled on making ridiculous statements like "Saddam Hussein would still be in power and the world woudl be better place for it!". But then of course it is the people who are voting and not me. |
Posted By: warlord
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 03:40
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What has Arnold got to do with electoral fraud? Arnold is great! He is the man that America awaits.
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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 03:43
Are you under the influence of illegal substances? And if the answer is yes, what are they? (Unless you're just kidding and I didn't get the joke) ------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: warlord
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 03:47
Yup. I am under the influence of intelligence, which is considered illegal in leftist countries. ------------- |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 09:48
I was referring to the fraud in the presedential elections and musing that it could probably happen in a future election too. It is now well known that the comission counted the majority of the void votes (those which have been marked for both the Republicans and Democrats) in favour of the Republicans. It wasn't the people who decided in the last elections, it was the comission and the governor of Florida, who happens to be G.W.'s brother. As for Arnie being elected, no, I don't think there was any fraud there. It's the Californians at work. |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 09:51
So that everyone can keep their fingers crossed all through the programme either for luck, or for jinxing Bush over the telly, the Sicilian way.
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Posted By: SJI Lasallian
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 09:54
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Arnie could very well have a chance in the presidential elections... but his time has not come yet. For now, let's all pray that Kerry wins! ------------- "I adore in all things the will of God in my regard" -- Saint John Baptist De la Salle (final words) |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 10:37
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Ohio will fall to Bush. The minorities there have been so jaded politically that they will have low voter turnout. The unions are also becoming less powerful as they are becoming more distant from the factory workers they represent. Kerry also doesn't endear himself to catholics (traditional democrats), he just doesn't seem able to convey that he thinks his religious beliefs should have no bearing on politics. Which I personally believe is wrong since your moral beliefs are no different than your beliefs on world trade or education reform. Therefore all that remains is the conservative moralist voters, which will assuredly choose Bush.
I actually like the town hall forum of debate better than a straight one-on-one forum. Candidates seem more alive when they move around and stand in the open rather than sitting behind a desk or standing at a podium. I don't know, maybe it's different interest in different issues.
------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 15:54
Ohio is the state that has suffered the most to Bush... It has lost the most jobs. ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Shifty Russian
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 16:57
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[/QUOTE] Yup. I am under the influence of intelligence, which is considered illegal in leftist countries. [/QUOTE] -Warloard LOL - so true Hows about this for a solution - get me to run the bloody nation ------------- I'm Shifty Russian, Suka |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 17:20
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Could you name a few leftist countries (apart from Cambodia) where intelligence is illegal?
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Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 17:52
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Actually Ohio's unemployment rate is 3% higher than its lowest ever unemployment rate. Source: http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm#content - http://www.bls.gov/web/lauhsthl.htm#content Losing jobs doesn't mean you don't get another one. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |