The Third empire - who were the two first?
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Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Modern History
Forum Discription: World History from 1918 to the 21st century.
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Topic: The Third empire - who were the two first?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: The Third empire - who were the two first?
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2004 at 12:35
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Hi! I have a really stupid question to ask... We always thalk about Hitlers third empire. But who were the to others? I would expect the Roman empire to be one of them...
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2004 at 12:42
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1st: Holy Roman Empire (952(IIRC)-1806) 2nd: German Empire 1871-1918 ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 14:06
| Thank you so much! |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 17:05
| Actually the whole Third Reich thing was nonsense... How can there be an empire without an emperor? |
Posted By: fastspawn
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 11:50
| Doesn't Fuhrer mean something like Emperor? Its just a name anyway. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 12:09
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Führer means leader
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Posted By: Kalevipoeg
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 14:27
It really doesn't matter what you call the country and the leader. There is no law of calling the ruler of an empire an emperor. Even if Hitler would have been the emperor by name, he still would have sucked ass. ------------- There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge... |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 15:46
| Since reich doesn't mean 'empire' but 'realm' it's not much of an issue though... |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 21:20
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The whole idea was based on propaganda for Hitler. He was a
masterful demagogue, who knew how to make the people's fleeting
passions flare into his devices for world domination.
------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 01:36
| Fuhrer was probablly a copy of Mussolini's Il Duce (The Leader). Hitler copied Mussolini a lot. |
Posted By: TheDiplomat
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 08:22
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Führer,Duce,Vojd[stalin]=leader...the need of a leader is the feature of the totaliterian regimes ------------- ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever! |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 12:20
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Actually I thought it was the other way around. Mussolini didn't even have any anti-jewish laws until he went into league with Hitler. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 12:45
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I tend to agree with Janus here. Hitler had much more control
than Mussolini did, he was the one really in control, not Mussolini.
------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 15:41
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Führer means both leader and guide, i think that double-meaning in German gave the title more 'style'... btw, HRE was't regarded as a German empire, so it was the misconception of Hitler to name it 3. Reich...and technically the "second" empire never ended, from 1971 to 1945 germanys official name was aways German empire. besides, Reich initialy meant Commonwealth but later became synonimous with empire. ------------- |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 15:24
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Not to be an ass but 1871 right?
What then was the official title of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Were they also a reich and is that the reason there name is now Ostreich. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:16
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Well, to the Germans, Oesterreich (Oe in place of o with umlaut), is just the east empire, because they are ethnically and linguistically close to the Germans. Same way that Frankreich is France.
I thought it was referring to Karl der Grosse's Reich (Charlemagne) not HRE? ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:25
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yes, 1871 is of course correct... official name of Austria-Hungary was Österreich-Ungarn, also known as Black and Yellow monarchy or more popular, K.u.K monarchy (K.u.K. stands for Kaiser und König (Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary). other names included Danube monarchy or double monarchy.
kubrat, the HRE is Charlemagne's empire ------------- |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:30
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Err... I thought that was Barbarossa? Around 1155 was when he was crowned emperor? Karl did capture Rome, but three and a half centuries earlier, in Christmas 800. Or are they both called HRE? ------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 17:58
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the HRE begun in 800 AD as you rightly noticed, but with the decline of the Frankish kingdoms the title later even disappeared for a time but was revived by the Eastern Frankish kingdom that became the Teuton kingdom in the 10th century by Otto I the great... ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:02
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Charlemagne was crowned emperor of the Franconian Empire. Later that
empire was split into West-Francia (France), Lorraine, and East-Francia
(Germany). At first the leader of Lorraine (Lotharius, hence the German
name 'Lothringen') was emperor, but around the year 1000, the
East-Franconian/German/HRE king became emperor (I thought it was Otto
the Great, but I'm not sure). EDIT: bah, too late ------------- |
Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:04
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I thought that Karl der Grosse was the first king of Germany? I
recently read that in a german textbook, but it might be biased . Then the Second Reich would be Bismarck, and Third Reich would be Hitler?
------------- Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:54
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Exactly Kubrat Karl der Grosse was crowned emperor by the pope. A portion of his realms evolved into the Holy Roman Empire. The second reich is the united german empire of 1871 and the third reich is hitler.
I thought after Wilhelm II abdicated it became the Weimar Republic?
But of course, sorry I didn't do that but I think Oe and Ue and the like looks hideous when I'm reading it (don't ask why) and it's just quicker to write O. Besides I forgot it was Oesterreich........ ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 19:16
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more or less, yeah... the question about the first king of Germany is difficult, since there's no clear definition of "germany" back then. today it is commonly accepted that Henry I. the bird-hunter (rough translation) was the first king of Germany because he had the support of all German tribes...he was the second non-carolingian (non-frankish) ruler of the eastern Frankish kingdom (Conrad I. the younger didn't had the support of all duchies), that was composed of Germanic tribes (Alemanns/Swabians, Saxons, Thüringians, Baiuvarians, Friesians, Salian Franks and later middle/Lorraine-Franks) conquered by the Franks. thus, later the kingdom was renamed regnum teutonicum ("Deutschland"/germany, before it was regnum francorum). since under the third ruler, Otto I. Germany became the HRE, Charlemagne/Carl the Great was still regarded as founder and as later the HRE became uninvitably chained to Germany, Charlemagne isn't really viewed as a foreign ruler by many Germans....
Weimar Republic is of course just a nickname of the period between the fall of the monarchy and the rise of the Nazis, official name was still German empire. ------------- |