Assalamualaikum to all muslimin and muslimat...

Due to Aidil Fitri which is around the corner... some country now is 24th Ramadhan and some are 25th Ramadhan.. Here, i would like to wish to you guys...

Selamat Hari Raya Aidil Fitri... Maaf Zahir dan Batin...

*Happy Aidil Fitri Day... in Malay

to all AE members... and Happy Deepavali to all Hindus (01 Nov 2005)

p/s: I wonder my topic is posted on the correct place??

Salam Alykum Cahaya,

    Eid Mubarak to All the Muslims

around this globe. http://www.sufimaster.org/star.jpg -

Eid= Dessert, Dessert, Dessert

Wa Aleykum Salam cahaya

Eid= Dessert, Dessert, Dessert

lol cant wait mmm turkish sweets i can almost taste them

May Allah make this eid the most happiest eid for all the muslims around the world. happiness is something (expecially muslim countries) have been lacking for a long time, due to earthquakes and wars. inshallah we will take positive action towards union and promoting islamic brotherhood.

wa alaeykum al salam cahaya,

Happy eid to all muslim brothers and sisters worldwide

Eid Mubarak to all

and hope Ramadan Passed as you wanted

i think Eid is Tommorow for the most of the Islamic states.

Bayraminiz Kutlu Olsun!  (Seker Bayram - Sweets Holiday?)

Eid Mubarak!

Starts tommorow for me too.

yammy yammy, my mom made gülbarak (kind of baklava)

eid mubarak, Ramazan bayrami'niz mübarek olsun

Eid Mubarak All!

   Thursday is the first day of Eid in Saudi Arabia.

       I managed to record a song that is announced on TV on the night before Eid. It has been a tradition to hear it for over 20 years! Some of you who live in neighboring countries might be sick of it too . Quality is not good but the whole recording is just 10 seconds

                   http://media.putfile.com/We-Min-El-Aideen - Listen to Wi Min El Aideen 

  Eid mubarak to everyone

   Spare a thaught for the plight of Kashmir today

Ramazan Bayraminiz Mubarek Olsun - EID mubarek to all my muslim brothers and sisters here, from australia

just came from bayram prayer, it was packed like always in bayram

Some might recognise this picture. the praying tree that was found in Sydney (in other words miracle of allah). thought u might lik to see.

I read about it Ottoman Turk. The article I read didn't talk only about its shape, but that it is directed toward Mecca! is that true? Since you are in Australia, I thought maybe it is easier on you to get us some more information about it.

yes Mila, u are right,

It is just you  

yes cok gec its true, amazing yer, it was faceing directly to the kaba

i hav a portraait of it in my room

Originally posted by Mila ^ I think it supports homosexuals more than Muslims. But that's just me.

Are you being sexual by that remark? or are you referring to every single man that prays? if a guy bends over during his praying and you call him a homo what does that make you? astarfurla

that wasnt necessary at all now was it ...

Eid Mubarak to You and your entire family, and all Fasting Muslims around the world!

Eid mubarek to you all...

Eid Mubarak!!!

Ramazan Bayramin Mubarek Olsun!!!

Assalamualaikum u guys....

I just came back from my hometown... celebrating hari raya or eid was so nice.... tomorrow all muslims in my country will start working as usual... but still we are in Eid mood coz here in Malaysia.. we celebrate for a month... tht the tradition here... lol... now for those who are staying in city like Kuala Lumpur will start to receive visitors among friends for Eid after the first week of syawal was celebrated in their hometown...

kuih raya... kuih raya....!!

Heres a question for all of you.

When I went to the Khutba for the Eid Prayer, the Imam said, "Eid is for those Muslims who fast." 

Those of you that did NOT fast, what do you guys think of that?

Sounds like you are trying to prove a point by subtly admonishing those who may not have fasted.

From someone who did fast, let me tell you that you need to change the mosque you're going to or ask the leadership to replace the speaker.

How doe this Imam know that Eid is for muslims whom fast only? I could think of two possible reasons. First, that he is typical of the know-it-all Imams who actually know very little.  Second possibility, he is sharing his bias for a traditional celebration that has predominantly taken an importance along the side of fasting. Eid Fitr (Celebration of the month of Ramadan after fasting) is not a Koranic festivity. In fact the only time the word festival is used 20:59 does not talk about fasting. However, forgiveness and great recompense will come to those who are like the ones in http://19.org/km/PM/33/35 - 33:35 . Fasting is one way to one become righteous. Eid has no part in this.

I agree with Seko that everything is seperate and you cannot tell a Muslim "Oh! you don't fast, don't come to Eid prayer" or "You don't pray, don't touch this Quran" this is Allah's business to decide what to accept and what to reject. Plus, Eid is a celebration for all Muslims and thus, all Muslims regardless of their faith level or class should participate. I don't even think that there is any worship in our religion that requires a certain level of faith or obedience because simply we dont measure this, only God does that.

Yet, your statement that the Imam in your mosque said "Eid is for those Muslims who fast." is not quiet wrong. I understood that he meant this is a celebration day for those who did fast as it is believed their deeds are ascending to God on that day, that is why we celebrate. So those who fast Ramadan are the happiest of that day, not to say the celebration is exclusive. I'm just sayig that those are the real happy guys of that day because it comes as a reward too after a month of prayer, worship and obedience and finally they passed it successfully.

We can go in argument about if Eid is a Quranic festival or not, but Ramadan fasting is with no doubt ordered in Quran and Sunnah, both. So I still find it funny that someone who did not fast Ramadan intentionally and with no excuse to find this offending. Afterall, I don't think the Imam will go down the steps of his stage and point those who didn't fast. Maybe it was his way of embarrasing them internally

well... for those who are not fasting.. do they go to the mosque?? the possibility is too low i guess... i dont think those people who didnt fast in Afghanan's place listened to tht imam's khutbah...

anyway... the imam's tried to give those people some sense so they should fast in ramadhan.. in psychological way..

Seko stated:
But to somehow alienate others with some type of ridicule is an improper motivation technique if it was intended to be as such.

by keep in silent will make it worst i guess.. people need to be remind always.. so they know how serious their action is..cos we dont wnt these people to feel comfortable with it...fasting is wajib for all who are capable. but if the imam came up with individual attack to a specific person, of course.. tht's is improper way to do. 

Seko said:

Since community strength is the key I believe those all individuals should participate. This may even bring some kind of encouragement to the those lax in fasting and lovingly bring them into the fold.

Anyhow.. still there's some people who didnt fast, whtever u said or do... they just never bother.. wht else can we do?

Since we do not know if those who did not fast in Ramadan were ill or not, its best we withhold our judgement.

Your next point is understood. However, discussion about the importance of fasting is all that a community needs. No one should intimidate or force someone who chooses to be lax from fast. Plus who are we to tell others how to run their business. Comments that lead to rejection from Eid is used to belittle another. A person's own guilt is reminder enough. Seems like people want to make limits by barring others from an exclusive club. If that is our business then where does it stop? Intrusion into one's privacy is not acceptable (for me at least). Making such decisions is a personal matter. The community should be open for participation. That's about it.

Then who is the Imam preaching to? His own choir? If so, then what is the benefit in that?

Seko,

You have to know, I'm probably taking his words completely out of context.  He did mention lots of Hadiths and verses from the Quran about fasting and how Eid and Fasting go hand in hand.  How fasting helps bring the spirit of rememberence and solidarity, and lots of other really good things that I couldnt remember off the top of my head.

I don't believe his intentions were to ridicule anybody, but to REMIND people about their obligations of Fast.

Thanks for the update.

Helping others out is where it's at. Would be nice to see a leader so caring in his speech . But since (if) he mentioned it in such a fashion then he seems to have went beyond his duty by saying it the way he did. That's my opinion. As you said he mentioned hadith. I wonder why he needed to do that too? Probably to back up his mission with guilt invoking methods. The imam knows best mentality is a show of power and ridicule. They love to talk loudly and castigate. You can't ask questions back. No that is against the 'rules'. That kind of behavior tends to numb the mind. In return, what you get is a bunch of yes men. That tells us alot about their mentality. And they want us to respect that kind of attitude? Yup! No questions asked.

Seko, why do you think he cannot mention Hadith during Eid Khutba if the whole prayer and Khutba is from Sunnah and not Quran? Sounds like as if someone who doesn't recognize Hadith and Sunnah, yet concerned about using Hadith in a celebration that is completely from Sunnah.

Celebrating Eid is different than praying Eid. You can celebrate Eid without a prayer because the prayer is not an obligation.

Anyhow, Afghanian told us that he himself "I don't believe his intentions were to ridicule anybody, but to REMIND people about their obligations of Fast". So it was clear to me, and to our friend who attended the Khutba. That is a very typical common way used in our societies where you intend your speech to a group of people but not make it direct, so only them know it. Just a method of speech no more no less.

Seko wrote:

Since we do not know if those who did not fast in Ramadan were ill or not, its best we withhold our judgement.

of course.. there are some people who cant fast for some reason which allow them not to fast.. but our focus here is to those people who can fast but refuse to do so...

if the imam was generally referring to all muslims who didnt fast regardless of any reasons.. mean 99% of the Islam women cant celebrate the eid i think...... hmmm... am i included?

seko also said:

A person's own guilt is reminder enough. Seems like people want to make limits by barring others from an exclusive club. If that is our business then where does it stop? Intrusion into one's privacy is not acceptable (for me at least). Making such decisions is a personal matter.

I wonder.. once u are a muslim ... doesnt it mean u must follow islam rules? fasting is one of Islam's commandment.. can it be tolerated? cant is it? Can u sure they will feel guilty with their action without others letting them realise on wht they have done?

well as its been said here before by Cahaya

i have a question why would someone who didnt care about his obligations as a muslim care about a celebration that muslim has after fasting a whole month??

Azimuth, that is true, I agree with all your viewpoints actually.

Seko makes a point, there are a few Muslims I know who would show no hesitation in verbally abusing another more Lax Muslim.

In fact, our Afghan Cultural Association ran into this problem during our initial setup. 

In our Association, we have a Saturday Masjid for Afghan refugees where they are taught how to read the Quran, and we don't make any distinction as to whether that person is Shia or Sunni.

We also were only allotted the Masjid from 10AM to 12PM.  Well whenever it hit 12PM, the children would all go on the bus to be taken home.  There was a few new converts who entered the Masjid around that time.  They were agrrevated that whenever the "Adhan/Azaan" was called, all the children were leaving.   They came downstairs and began to argue with the School instructors/organizers  for not telling the Kids to go pray for the noon prayer.  They told them earlier that they were only allotted to be here until 12, and the bus that we rent will not wait until everyone is done praying to take them back.  They eventually got very irate and told the instructor, who is a 60 year old very GOOD Muslim man, a KAFFIR.

The instructor did not say anything, he simply turned the other cheek and said he would not argue in a Masjid.  That guy who started the fiasco was eventually banned from the Masjid.  A few Pakistanis also came to the Mosque and were yelling as to why we were teaching Shiites, and why we had Shia teachers alongside Sunni teachers in the mosque.  They heard rumors that they were going to teach these kids to become Shiites.  They actually got access to a locksmith and they even changed the lock on the Masjid doors so we could not enter.  He was also banned from the Masjid with our instructors help.  These type of people do not belong in our Masjid.

Our instructor is actually not only respected within our community, but a board member in the Islamic Council.  When he wants something done, he will get it done.  

Everyone is making good points here.

I won't try and answer all of you so I'll make a few statements instead. I may have come across as head strong in my arguements before so this time I will avoid the heavy criticism.

Motivational techniques vary as do the odds for successfully helping another. My point was to share an opinion against dubious statements that offend. If the purpose was to bring the slackers up to spec via admonishment then that's where I found the statement by the Imam wrong and unproductive. If it was made just for encouragement then he used a poor method of doing so. Encouragement means building self confidence and helping with one's chances for success. The slacking individual would probably avoid the critical leader's admonishments anyways since he/she had been weak in the first place. To encourage positive behavior instead works when a leader intends to be taken as a positive influence. Saying 'You can't join in on Eid' doesn't sound like the encouragement I would expect from such a person. Again, we may see this as different motivational methods. So no one can actually be charged with being 'wrong' in this matter, even though my opinion differs. However, we can still look at intentions and chances for successfull motivation.

Regarding Afghanan's experience, unfortunately patience and understanding often takes a back seat to emotional outbursts and unverified accusations. As in the case between the instigators at his mosque and the instructor.

well...

seko stated here..:

Motivational techniques vary as do the odds for successfully helping another.. And..

Encouragement means building self confidence and helping with one's chances for success.

Tht one... i am agree with u...   but to motivate someone who is more thn.. let say... 30 yrs old.. to fast... wht kind of motivation n encouragement we can give? this kinda approach is very effective for children below thn 12 yrs old... but an adult?? when the person can argue tht to skip from fasting is his own personal matter.. a privacy nobody can interfere... how can we encourage tht person?

for the imam statement..."eid is for those who are fasting"... we critic his point of view... in fact his tried to put some sense to all people so they realise the significant of fasting.. but for those who didnt fast in ramadhan we must tolerate with their action? tht's very awkward....

i know super goat tht whtever amal u do or did is between u and Allah... but i just wnt to know... an obligation as a muslim... tht's all...

There is nothing wrong with tolerating an action that is against our wishes. Remember the no compulsion rule. Leaders are not the moral or religious police minding the affairs of others.

If an adult of 30 years old chooses not to do something against his will or desire, he most probably, would not respond to ridicule from someone else either. When talking to individuals with mature minds one needs to appeal to their intellect. Perhaps with better reason of proof (which I already passed doubt on, 'origins of Eid celebration) or sharing proper information. In fact, children would be better candidates for the disciplinarian approach more than adults in this case. If I say "Do it or else" to a kid I might have better success with him than using this bullheaded approach on an adult.

seko said :

I may have come across as head strong in my arguements before so this time I will avoid the heavy criticism.

You got me!

Thanks for the reminder!