Mongol trebuchets
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6481
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 18:57
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Topic: Mongol trebuchets
Posted By: Mangudai
Subject: Mongol trebuchets
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 16:28
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When did the mongols use the counterweight trbuchet for the first time? ------------- Nu guhk go mis leat meahcit, de lea mis dorvu dn eatnam alde Ossfok i s kringest sturwekster sttliger. Summer v kulluma i riktit finer! |
Replies:
Posted By: shurite7
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 21:42
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I'm going off memory, so I may be off a little. The counter weight trebuchet was created by the Arabs. It is most likely it was used with the Il-Khans. There are many depictions of such weapons with the Il-Khan Mongols. The counter weight trebuchet was introduced into China during the siege of Fen-cheng and Xiangyang in the early 1270's CE. During the siege Khublai Khan made a request from the Il-Khan, who was his nephew, for siege engineers. Two were sent and they built the counter weight trebuchet after they arrived in China. This would indicate they already knew how to design, make and use such siege weapons. Cheers |
Posted By: HistoryGuy
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 21:47
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I have a picture of a Mongol trbuchet.... The second pic was painted in around 1306.
------------- هیچ مردی تا به حال به شما درباره خدا گفته. |
Posted By: TheodoreFelix
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 21:49
It looks like they are chucking those archers. 
Maybe the goal was to launch one, in mid air let him shoot off as many arrow as possible and then finish it off with a splat. ------------- |
Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 22:01
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I am not sure of exact dates for the Mongols' use of the trebuchet for the first time. However, during the spread of bubonic plague in the 14th century, the Mongols, waging primitive biological warfare, used trebuchets and catapults to lob infected corpses into the coastal Black Sea fortifications of the Italian republics. The Italians subsequently contracted the plague and transferred it by sea to western Europe. ------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |
Posted By: shurite7
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 22:13
| The first probable use of the trebuchet with the Mongols was with Chingis Khan using Jin siege engineers during his campaigns in Khwarizmia and later against the Tanguts. As for the "counterweight" most likely the first use was with Hulegue and his campaigns into modern day Iran, Iraq & Syria. |
Posted By: BigL
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 05:33
| counterweight was used to bombard chinese civilians behind walls in the song campiagn.at the same time they were shooting chinese seige crossbow vs assasins |
Posted By: tadamson
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 08:25
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It's possible that Mongol forces in Persia or Central Asia used
counterweight catapuls as early as the 1230's. Our first definate
example is at Samarkhand in 1221 where Their allied Islamic infantry,
naptha men and catapults were used to capture the suburbs in bitter
street fighting, followed up by the catapults attacking the walls of
the citadel. First recorded use by regular Mongol troops was at
Warsaw in 1241. Jin commander Qiang Shen, in his defense of Luoyang from the Mongols used what was probably a counterwieight catapult but they didn't adopt it. ------------- rgds. Tom.. |
Posted By: Dalsung Hwarang
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 00:11
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Well most siege technology was learned from the Chinese when the Mongols took it over.
------------- "He who seeks death shall live, and he who seeks life shall die." --Admiral Yi. |
Posted By: shurite7
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 01:43
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They also learned much about siege weapons from the Arabs/Muslims. The trebuchet was believed to be invented by the Chinese, but the Muslims improved it by creating the counter weight trebuchet. cheers
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Posted By: BigL
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 01:49
| wats naptha men? |
Posted By: tadamson
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 08:00
Specialist troops who hurled pots of thickened naptha (half way between bitumen and petrol, occurs natrualy in oil rich regions), often with extras like sulphur. Very similar effect to modern napalm (which is basically thickened petrolium). They were commonly used to support infantry assault troops and in sieges. ------------- rgds. Tom.. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 08:34
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They used engineers from the Middle East and Central Asia for their siege warfare. ------------- |
Posted By: shurite7
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2005 at 23:13
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During Chingis Khan's invasion of Khwarizmia one of my sources state the Mongol advance troops (mangudai) had to treat leather to protect them from nafatin troops. Such troops at times were considered very special sometimes referred to as elite troops. That might be stretching it, but those who knew how to make it and work with it were quite valuable. Salah al-Din had such a person inside Acre when the Europeans were besieging it in the late 1180's. The individual was considered a hero. cheers |
Posted By: shurite7
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2005 at 02:01
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Nice article on trebuchets http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/pdfs/sciam.pdf - http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/pdfs/sciam.pdf |