Ossetians
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=603
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 06:19
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ossetians
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: Ossetians
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 14:20
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http://www.hfe.org/_old/prayer/caucasus/caucus4.htm - http://www.hfe.org/_old/prayer/caucasus/caucus4.htm The OSSETIANS: (INDO_EUROPEAN: Iranian) who call themselves "Irons" or "Digorons," are one of the oldest Caucasian peoples. When the Iranian speaking tribes (Alans, Scythes and Sarmats) settled there, the local population took their language and many cultural features. The Alans and the Ossetians started the formation of the Ossetians. This alliance was destroyed by the Mongol-Tatars, and the Alans were driven from the plains to the mountain ravines; part of them moving to the southern slopes of the Greater Caucasus where they still live. Like other Caucasian peoples, they preserve and develop their traditions, customs and holidays. These are remembered in tales, proverbs and songs that depict the centuries-long history of the Ossetian people. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 18:47
Sadly, the world heard about the Ossetians by the recent horrible
events in Beslan, and not by their admirable culture that survived
centuries..  One thing I would like to correct there, the majority of Ossetians are not Sunni Muslims, they are Orthodox Christians. The majority of the ones in Turkey are Sunnis, but those generally have "converted" after their emigration to Ottoman lands. The ones in North and South Ossetia are Orthodox and have had clashes with their Chechen-Ingush-Dagestani neighbours in the past due to this difference. The Chechen-Ingush and the Dagestanis are considered to be the most staunchly religious (Muslim) groups in the area as usually the Northern Caucasian peoples do not have a strong religious tradition unlike the said three, but a hereditary one, based on social customs and not religious beliefs (Khabze, Xabze and other similar spellings). The Ossetians have even greater cultural ties with the Northwestern Caucasians, namely the Circassians (Adyghe) and the Abkhaz-Abazin; with whom they share the famous Nart Sagas. "Nart" itself is an Iranian word, however, the Nart sagas consist of common cultural elements of the ancient Iranians, Alans, Sarmatians, Scythians, proto Indo Europeans and of the indigenuous peoples of the Caucasus mountains and are a shared heritage by Ossetes and NW Caucasians alike. |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 19:17
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Here's
an excerpt from the paper, The North Caucasian Diaspora in Turkey,
dated 1996, by E. Wesselink, UN Refugee Agency -to give a bit of an
idea about the religious issues concerning the Caucasian peoples,
including the Ossetians. The Ossetians are lumped together with the
other Caucasians in the Turkish diaspora, called the "Cherkess" -after
the name the Russians called them. The Georgians, Dagestanis and to a
great extent the Chechens are referred to as Georgians, Dagestanis and
Chechens, however.
The
indigenous populations of the North Caucasus are Muslim, with the exception of
the Abkhaz and the Ossetians who are, with few exceptions, Christian. While
Islam is of great importance for the social life and ethnic identity of the
Northeast Caucasians, religion is a marginal social factor in North Ossetia and
in the Northwest Caucasus, including Abkhazia. The
North
Caucasian diaspora is entirely Muslim, including its Abkhaz and
Ossetian members.
Within the North Caucasian diaspora it is generally presumed that they
were
deported from Russia because of their religion. (note: which is
the official reason the Ottoman Empire gave at the time, but this is
not true. In reality the Caucasian populations were exchanged between
the Ottoman and Russian Empires. The Ottomans "gave" the Caucasus
(which wasn't theirs to start with) to the Russian Empire and the
Russians "gave" the Caucasians to them, in exchange.) Islam
forms an integral part of
their identity and has historically been an important motive for their
loyalty
to the Turkish state. (Again, implemented by the Ottoman
government of the time and carried out idoelogically by the future
governments. It is true that some rulers and elders of the Caucasians
were loyal to the Ottoman Empire, in which they had their own reasons
-such as rank, lands etc.- but the same cannot be said of the
population who initially arrived) |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 13:58
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We had a long discussion about Ossetians in our previous forum, as you said they have really a rich and influential culture. Ossetian don (Alanian dan) = water [compare with: 'Don River'] -------------
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Posted By: Aryan
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 14:09
| I am confused: Are Ossetians ancient Aryan Iranians? |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 15:44
Indeed. As Aryan as it gets. They're the closest surviving kin of the Alans, according to historians. |
Posted By: Aryan
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 16:19
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That's great. |
Posted By: TheDiplomat
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 05:55
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Aryan,right now You yourself are talking to one of these aryan-ossettian women ------------- ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever! |
Posted By: Rava
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 07:44
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They're the closest surviving kin of the Alans, according to historians. As a nation yes. However their descendants live in Europe as well. People in Europe even don't know how many noble families have Alanian roots. Perhaps Alans created the medievial ethos of the mounted knight in Europe. |
Posted By: Aryan
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 08:27
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I have never heard of Alans before. Who are they? |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 09:19
Of course, you are right Rava. Alans, as well as Scythians and Sarmatians have survivors living in Western Europe, the Balkans, Poland, Ukraine, Southern Russia and the Caucasus. They were all around the place and contributed to the ethnos of many groups. The difference with the Ossetians is that they survived as a distinct group and kept the language. You know how important language is when defining people, even though sometimes it's not defining the majority. For example, Ossetians and Kabardians (a Circassian group living in Kabardino-Balkaria) have a lot more in common genetically as is shown by research (Malyarchuk et al. if I'm not mistaken), but the Ossetians are referred to as Iranian, because they speak an Iranian language and Kabardians speak a Northwestern Caucasian language. In reality they no doubt contributed to the other Caucasian (not "white" but from the Caucasus area) populations as well as they contributed to them; not to mention the aforementioned European nations due to spreading out. I also look favourably on theories about the Alans and knighthood in Europe. I believe you might have read the book From Scythia to Camelot? |
Posted By: Rava
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 10:50
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Colchis wrote:I also look favourably on theories about the Alans and knighthood in Europe. I believe you might have read the book From Scythia to Camelot? Not yet. There's a reliable monografy by B.S.Bachrach: "A History of the Alans in the West". You can still get a good reprint at Books on Demand. Even in Poland we have some toponyms like Oss, Ossa, Ossow and surnames like Ossowiecki etc. Among steppes tribes Alans are my favorite
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 12:21
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Ossetians like Tajiks (Tojik as they name themselves) pronounce "A" mostly as "O", so I think "Ossetian" is the same "Avestan". -------------
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 04:17
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Ossetian is not the same as Avestan. It's in the same family group, as in, Eastern Iranian branch though it's more akin to Pashtun. ------------- |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 05:05
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I meant "Ossetian" can be just the Ossetian pronunciation of "Avestan". -------------
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2004 at 11:53
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Ah, ok. ------------- |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 18:15
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Medieval European knights are based on Germano-Gothic heavy cavalry which is greatly inspired from Sarmatian cataphracts. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Colchis
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 19:10
I thought they certainly would be inspired by Sarmatians. This excerpt is from The Roman Army from Caesar to Trojan: "Precisely which nation was responsible for the invention of mail, called hamata by the Romans, remains a matter of debate.The earliest examples of mail are quoted as having been found in Scythian tombs of the 5th century BC; however, it seems most unlikely that people such as the Scythians, who enjoyed a nomadic way of life, would have been able to develop the quite advanced tooling required for successful mail manufacture. The next indication of the use of mail is a painting of a mercenary soldier from Galatia (modern Turkey, but an area apparently settled in early times by Celtic peoples) wearing a short, sleeveless hauberk, dated to the 3rd or 2nd century BC. The Roman writer Varro states that the Romans acquired their knowledge of mail-making from the Celtic Gauls, and it was considered that they were its inventors. Whilst there is no evidence to prove or disprove Varro on this point, the Celts were an inventive people with a superb mastery of metal working, perfectly able to achieve such an innovation. But exactly the same can equally well be said of the peoples of the Middle East- the Assyrians made beautiful iron helmets as early as the 8th to 7th centuries BC (see British Museum) and therefore the required technology could very possibly have been developed in that region. Whether mail originated in western Europe or in the Middle East, in view of the Scythian finds its date of origin must surely be as early as the 6th century BC." |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 15:42
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However, AFAIK the Alans were mostly light riders armed with javelins, unlike the rest of Sarmatian tribes such as the Iazyges. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Rava
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 09:43
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Ihsan wrote: Medieval European knights are based on Germano-Gothic heavy cavalry which is greatly inspired from Sarmatian cataphracts. In terms of armor, yes. I thought of some cultural Alanian elements in knights' ethos . The simplest example is hunting with dogs. |
Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 07:22
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Hi, by accident i found your interesting discussion Regards, Iron (Ossetian) ________________ Beslan - Never Forgotten
------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
I can see that you have already found the website i was about to recommend you http://www.canada-osetia.net/iryston/enter.html - http://www.canada-osetia.net/iryston/enter.html Hope you liked it, i think it is the best website about my people & it`s culture. If you have any questions about Ossetians you are welcome to visit Ossetian International forum http://www.canada-osetia.net/ - http://www.canada-osetia.net Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 11:35
But the forum is not in English!  -------------
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Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 14:25
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That's a shame. Unfortunetely I don't know any interesting Ossetian forum in English.
Dae bon horz, aevsymaer! |
Posted By: oslonor
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 05:14
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Ossetian are a non-Iranian people who have adopted an Eastern Iranian
language. Stalin was ossetian and he does not look Iranian or Slave or
Alan or Scythian at all. Ossetian are similar to other groups in
Caucasus who have adopted Iranian languague but are not Iranians.
------------- |
Posted By: Cent
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 08:33
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Wasn't Stalin a Georgian? ------------- They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this. Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 10:16
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I am sure you know too little about Ossetians. Stalin was Georgian and there is no proof he could be Ossetian. Stalin wrote in his autobiography that he was son of a Georgian and he never spoke Ossetian neither. However there are many political speculations behind his origins and there are Ossetian and as well as Jewish version also. Historically Alans moved from north to south and assimilated some local Caucasian tribes, so north Ossetians might be anthropologically different then south Ossetians. However the genetically results shows the Ossetians Digors are 50% Iranian (Isfahan) MtDNA and Ossetian Iron are about 70% Iranian MtDNA the rest Mediteranian type |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 10:40
I am very sure he know nothing about iranian at all, just read his link about "Persians and Hollywood" I dont know why is he caliming such nonsens. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 14:29
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Oslonor, I have had the misfortune of reading your misinformation on more unsavory forums, your views are very misguided. ------------- |
Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 17:02
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Anbalan, shalam! Iron dae?! ------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 17:12
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Hei på deg, Oslo gutt! Well, you are very wrong. Just like 70% of Iranians, Alans come from Aryans. Stalin had a Georgian Mother & an Ossetian Father (he died when Josef was a little boy), . But you know... Georgians can have him.. ------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 17:33
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Ossetians are very different, some have very light skin color, others are darker, some have blue eyes, others green or hazel.. for me it doesn`t matter. We are all proud of who we are & where we come from. I call my people beautiful not only because of the way they look like , but because of their spirit. here is a new ossetian website in English, but it is not completed yet... http://www.ossetians.com/eng/ - http://www.ossetians.com/eng/ ____________ You know what has happened in Ossetia in September, 2004. This pain will stay with us forever... it is difficult for me to talk about Beslan. This website is in English, it will help you to understand what we are going through http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/index.php - http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/index.php Always in our hearts http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/thelist.php?category=4 - http://www.materibeslana.com/eng/thelist.php?category=4
------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
Posted By: Persian
Date Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 17:57
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as far as I know, south ossetians are mixed with georgians and north ones perhaps with russian or other. does it really matter though? anyway, the ossetians left for the current place because of the mongole invasion. ------------- Iran = Iran, nothing else |
Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 04:26
Like in any other country you`ll find mixed marriages. I can`t say we have mixed with Russians, the % of such marriages is very low (perhaps because of cultural differences)... One of the first Ossetians who had married a Georgian was out Tsar(King) Soslan David & his wife was a Georgian Princess Tamara... What is spacial about Ossetians that not only they managed to keep their language, but also ancient culture & traditions. ------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 09:36
Salam aensuvaer! Digoron daen. |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 10:21
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Are Ossetians called "Cherkes" by russians?? I think there exists a large groop "Cherkez, çerkez" people in Turkey. Also Libanon exist half of "çerkez" people who where settled there by Ottomans to secure them from russians. fysical appearance of cerkez people do look more Turkic then iranic to me, dunno sorry in advance if im wrong... Also R. T. Erdogan (premier of Turkey) is half çerkez... ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 10:40
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That depends what you mean by Turkic or Iranic - you get oriental looking Turks and you get European looking Turks and everything in between. And Iranic is the same except the population is dark to light caucasian, sometimes with mongoloid admixture who look like what I have seen called Turanid on these forums, many Russians look like that. ------------- |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 10:58
 Minister of sports in Turkey, he is half çerkez and half Laz. Melih Gökçek who's governor of Ankara is a full çerkez guy, etc etc------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 14:08
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There are some Ossetians (mostly Digors) among Cherkez in Turkey. They are not so many, but there are many of my relatives there. Russians called “Cherkez” people of Adyge languages (Adygians, Cherkesians, Kabardinians, Abazians, etc.). Most of population of the nations were deported by Russians or emigrated to Turkey during and after Russian-Caucasus war. They were groups of Ossetians and Chechens among them also. During Civil War in Russia many Ossetians were loyal to the tzar and fought against Bolsheviks (the Red Army) and it were very cruel battles in Ossetia. After the White Army was defeated, many of those fled for Turkey. As I know there are some minor Ossetian comunities in Turkey, Siria and Lebanon. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 16-Nov-2005 at 15:46
That is true but I wanted to know what you meant by Turkish looking. lol I remember when i was in Turkey the operator of the banana thing attached to the speedboat asked where I was from, I said Scotland and he said I mean originally, I said Iran, he said you look like a Turk and made some terrorist joke about Iran My point is that it is quite confusing when people say someone looks like a Turk or Iranian because such a variety of looks exist in the nations.
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Posted By: Iron (Ossetian)
Date Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 12:55
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Day 1 you`ll find more about Cherkes people here http://www.commersant.com/tree.asp?rubric=5&node=442&doc_id=-98 - http://www.commersant.com/tree.asp?rubric=5&node=442& ; ;doc_id=-98 Here are some pictures of Ossetia & its people http://www.kavkazweb.net/foto/thumbnails.php?album=862 - http://www.kavkazweb.net/foto/thumbnails.php?album=862 Anbalan, Congratulations with Dzheorgubae! All the best! http://www.iriston.ru/docs/pozdravlenie_moskovskoj_osetinskoj_obshini.wav - http://www.iriston.ru/docs/pozdravlenie_moskovskoj_osetinsko j_obshini.wav
. ------------- Beslan - Never Forgotten |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 07:09
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Hello! This is my first post on this forum. I stumbled upon this thread and found the material here interesting. Nevertheless, I will like to add that Ossetic, like Pashto, a language spoken in Afghanistan and north-western Pakistan, is an East Iranian language. In fact, Pashto and Ossetic are the only surviving literary East Iranian languages. Some other languages in the East Iranian group are Yazghulami, Wakhi, Munji, Yidga, and Shighna. About the similarity of the Ossetic words above with that of Pashto, I will say that:
This word is also used in Pashto where it means "Pond" or "Lake". In fact, in Pashto, we have the names of lakes like: "Shin Dan" [Blue Lake], and "Mahoo Dan"[Fish Lake].
In Pashto, we have the word "jawar" or "zawar" for "deep".
In Pashto we have the word "Styr" for "big". So this word Pashto has the same meanings as in Ossetic.
In Pashto, we use "sar" for "head". In Pashto, "mat" means "to break" or "broken". "Sarmatian" in Pashto would means "brave people that fight to death". Our national poet Khushal Khan Khattak says: "Pa Jahan kai da nangyal wi da dwa kara "Ya ba okhuri kakari ya ba kamran shi" [A brave man has only two options in the world...either to fight to death or to secure victory...]"
In Pashto, the corresponding word is "ghar".
In Pashto, there is a similar word "roukhan/roukhana" meaning "bright" or "illuminated".
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Dec-2005 at 07:34
This is very nobler of Osset people, who value "spirit" more than "skin color". Pashtun people have the same attitude. They are a great lover of liberty and fight for it. They respect personal strength and will pay great regard to a person who would do things courageously even if bad. We have an ancient code of honor called Pashtunwali. The name for our language "Pashto" is also synanimous with "steadfastness". |
Posted By: AFG-PaShTuN
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 00:19
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Beautiful, as Zarak Khan pointed out some facts, i myself heard that Ossetic language has very strong relation to Pashto lanaguge.
Anyone want to shed more light on this? ------------- 
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 09:22
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They both have strong ancestral links to Scythians, that is the reason. It explains why an East Iranic language is so far west, the Ossetian/Alans are believed to be descendants of a mixture between the Massagetae tribe which migrated west and another resident IE people in the area. ------------- |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:13
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I want to back up Zagros's claim that the relationship in words is related to the Scythic peoples. You can also find similarities in Pashto words with Old Bulgar as well. At the same time, you can also find these same words in modern Persian. Unfortunately for the Scythians they did not leave any literary works we could follow. I wonder though, if there was any Lyric poetry that may have been handed down generation to generation from them. ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: AFG-PaShTuN
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2005 at 01:25
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THank you Zagros and Afghanan Janano! Guys, i have another question, how did we find out about the Scythians? Have they left any records of themselves in the form of book or anything? Are they mentioned in any book by non-Scythic people? Thanks -------------
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Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 11:16
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There are some Georgian and Armenian historic references about links between Ossetians and Scythians and Massagetae. Mrovelli, a Georgian historian, wrote a legend about origins of Caucasus nations. He pointed non-local origins of Ossetians. By him Ossetians were brought by "Khazars". The Khazars conquested Caucasia in times long before Romans appeared there. Khazars, by Mrovelli, took land from "sons of Caucas" and gave it to Uobos, father of Ossetians. The "Khazars" are assumed to be Scythians in common historic knowledge. By Armenian sources (Agafangel 5AC, Moves Khorenaci 5AC, etc.), the Khazars did not present that time in Caucasus area, but Massagetae (Mazkuta) are mentioned often. If you read the both sources and identify names in respect to historic events, the "Khazars" (by Georgians) are "Massageta" (by Armenians), "Ossetians" by Georgians are "Alans" by Armenians. Khorenaci makes difference between "Massagetae" and "Scythae" in some cases. He confirms that land of Massagetae begins right behind of the Gates of Alans (Darialan gorge in Ossetia). Links:
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Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:37
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Well,maybe it's off-topic but russian archeologist Rjabchikov claims he has deciphered some scythian writings....
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:39
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Really? do you have a link? I didn't know Scythians had a script. ------------- |
Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:42
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http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl39.htm#TOP - http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl39.htm#TOP
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Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:48
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About Rhoxolani-what's the meaning of the word?In Serbia we have a name Roksanda...And does Urosh means anything in Iranian(it's a name in Serbia);also bitanga,losh... What do u think about Rjabchikov's theory-it's a bit 'radical'...
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 07:58
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In Iranian "Roshanak" which means starlet, the Hellenised version is Roxsanna, it was the name of the Soghdian princess that Alexander married. Urosh is close to Kurosh (Kiros - Cyrus), it is also a name.
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 09:55
It seems he is trying to prove that Scytho-Sarmatians were proto-Slavs, this is clearly not the case, the Slavic and Scytho-Sarmatian migrations to South Eastern Europe were quite distinct. Although there was definately assimilation between the two. This cross assimilation would explain the Eastern IE and Western IE nature of the Slavic languages, although speculative. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 13:29
In Ossetian "rox" (rohs) means "light". Roxolan - means "lighted Alans" and shows superiority. There are Aorsi and Alanorsi among Sarmatians. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 13:35
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Oh, I didn't think of it that way. "Rosh-an" in Persian means bright - "Roshanak" actually literally means bright-let. Thanks for the info Anbalan. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2005 at 14:56
Yes, it is "bright" too. "Rohsag" and "rohson" means bright-let in Ossetic. "Rohsag" - is used also when people mension people who passed away and means good (bright) memories about them. |
Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 07:27
| I consider Rjabcikov's views a bit 'on the wild side',too.However there r some historians in Serbia that share similar views as Rjabchikov-some of them r even more radical...so I won't mention them-because I don't find them very conviencing.However Zagros, u supported (not directly)the guy who wrote that the differencies between slavic and germanic lang. r the product of differencies between scythian and sarmatian language(due to mixing with Amazons!!!)...now that's rather superficial-and it gives some credentials to Rjabchikov's theory. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 07:58
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No, no. My belief is this: Slavs were a unique people, they migrated south and encountered the Scytho-Sarmatians who they eventually assimilated - these people spoke an Iranic language, they were not Slavic. This guy says that htey were proto-Slavs which does not make sense. An example is above - Rohxalani, they were a Sarmatian tribe, the name makes complete sense in Iranian languages. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 09:13
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Yes, I agree. When I read Rjabchikov's articles, I also thought that there is an "area of intersection" between Slavic and Iranian linguistic basics. It might be also the ancient nations os stepes could speak languages related to Slavic and Iranian. However, I have also found his translations radical. I know there are many words of Ossetic language sounding similar with Russian, but I do not think because just "indoeuropeanism". For example: Tayat' (to melt, Rus) - Tayun (to melt, Oset) Myod (honey, Rus) - Mud (honey, Oset) Beryoza (birch tree, Rus) - Barza (birch tree, Oset) Radost' (joy, Oset) - Rada (joy, Oset) There are many others. Those words are ancient and cannot be adopted by recent influence. |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 09:18
I have once reffered an article about a discovery in Central Russia, a Sarmatian grave. The archeologists state that Sarmatians had much greater influence on Slavic people than they thought before. Article is in Russian. http://osradio.ru/2005/10/01/pod_lipetskom_raskopali_unikalnoe_zaxoronenie_sarmatskoj_tsaritsy/#cut1 - http://osradio.ru/2005/10/01/pod_lipetskom_raskopali_unikaln oe_zaxoronenie_sarmatskoj_tsaritsy/#cut1 |
Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 11:00
| Serbian:BREZA(birch tree if i'm guessing right);MED-honey...Do u recognize this word:dushman.Does kar(or similar) means anything in iranian(it means black in turkish).Serbian epic hero had a hound named Karaman. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 13:07
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Doshman = enemy Kar = work I have never heard of breza. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 14:42
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Qara/Qaura means "power", "strength" in both Ossetic dialects. There is also "kar/kara" what is "age". In Turkic languages "kara" is black, that is right. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 15:12
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Qodrat is power in Persian, but I think this word has semitic aramaic roots. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 15:56
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It is interesting... Gergian text. David Bagrationi "History of Georgia". http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus11/Bagrationi/frametext1.htm - http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus11/Bagrationi/frametext1.ht m There is a comment about "Caraman, a Persian knight". I have translated below: //Time by time Georgia was conquested by different nations. This country was under rule of Dashti-Kipchaks, i.e. nations of Great Tataria, what was mentioned in "Tatarian history", written in Persian language by historian Tartuz about Ushang-Shah, called Kuzan of Anketil, and where it is written about exploits of Karaman, a Persian knight, who served Ushang-Shah. The writer of the story says that Georgian army was with Ushang-Shah during his way to India.// |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 16:20
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very interesting. I didn't realise the Persian language was in official use that far north. Do you know what date these events took place? Who is Ushang Shah? ------------- |
Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 07:52
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I read something interesting about the possible ethimology of Karaman in serbian epics-one historian proposes that it was derived from Sarama -which appears to be an ancient indian godess of wind(or similar)... How about losh- it means bad,corrupted...rings any bells? |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2006 at 11:26
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I couldn't determine the time. The document is not written in chronological order. I think it is about time about 600-1000 BC. |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 15:27
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Ossetians lived on mountains for centuries and far from sea. However the language has some words for exotic sea animals. Can anybody tell is any coincidence with other Iranian languages? What words are for those animals in your language? Please... Ford - sea Uartdzaf - Ocean Samsagaf - dolphin (samsa ? + gaf (fish)) Donihog - dolphin (means water caw) Arheugaf - dolphin (arheu ? + gaf (fish)) Gaja - whale Galgaf - whale (bull+fish) Bergaf - sea caw (ber ? + gaf (fish)) |
fficePosted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 15:30
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Gav (like Ossetian gaf), means cow, seems like everything is a type of cow lol. ------------- |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 17:10
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Not exactly. |
But caw is "hog" (g^og). Anyway it is close.Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2006 at 17:39
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Aha, I see, it would be itneresting to see some Pashtun equivalents too. We call whales nahang, fish is mahi (masi in avestan) Sea is Darya and an ancient alternative is "zu"
------------- |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 04:40
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The Persian word for "Whale" is "Balen", "Nahang" (Manichean Pahlavi nhng) means "Crocodile". The most widespread fish in the Caspian sea (in fact it is native to the Caspian sea but has been introduced into Europe, North America, and elsewhere.), is Carp, in Persian Kapur. -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 13:13
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Hello! The original Pashto word for fish is Kab or Kap. Cow is called Ghwa.
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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 13:37
Also we have some hero's with the word karaman in it. ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 13:38
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Thanks for the input Zarak Khan. Kap and Gaf I am not an expert but I can see the similarity between these two words.
------------- |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 13:39
------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Yekta
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 14:05
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The word for hero in Persian is Qahramân/Ghahramân. |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 14:07
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We have city's called in Turkey as "Karaman" and have proverb "karaman'in koyunu sonradan cikar oyunu" i cant translate it its hard. ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 19:31
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I though Ghare in Ghare-ghozlu means Black. Ghozlu being Sheep.
------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon" 
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Posted By: Cent
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 02:48
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We kurds also say masi... Zagros: "fish is mahi (masi in avestan)" ------------- They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this. Abdul Rahman Qassemlou |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 09:06
I see it very close to Ossetic. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 15:47
Yes that's right, Kurdish languages tend to retain a more archaic pronunciation and structure. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 15:10
Thanks! That's really interesting! I have found a short ossetic-english words list but it doesn't get downloaded. |
Posted By: Scorpian
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2006 at 18:37
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many western alans would differ to disagree with this comment. historians are forgetting about the mass migration of alans in 406AD. alan blood runs true in a lot of peeps the world over. d.allan
------------- Scorpian |
Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 13:25
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Picture of Ossetian girl.
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for you Aryan.Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 16:12
Where have you got the picture from? I don't think she looks like typical Ossetian girl. Or maybe picture is too old and not of good quality. Anyway you are wrong, if you want to develop some ideas based on that picture. There are many Ossetian sites and photos there. For example pictures of hostage situation in Beslan school are published on many sites with photos of children and adults http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Beslan/aae.sized.jpg&imgrefurl=http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Beslan/aae&h=508&w=800&sz=61&tbnid=0gEGLvaP4oIJ:&tbnh=90&tbnw=142&hl=en&start=14&prev=/images%3Fq%3DOssetia%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005-14,GGLD:en%26sa%3DG - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://media.military photos.net/photos/albums/Beslan/aae.sized.jpg&imgrefurl= http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Beslan/aae&h=508& amp; amp;w=800&sz=61&tbnid=0gEGLvaP4oIJ:&tbnh=90& tbnw=142&hl=en&start=14&prev=/images%3Fq%3DOsset ia%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005- 14,GGLD:en%26sa%3DG There is site http://www.ossetians.com - www.ossetians.com with photos also http://ossetians.com/rus/news.php?newsid=624&f=32&PHPSESSID=3c9635c48b0f8e1e42e1789f09f4c490 - http://ossetians.com/rus/news.php?newsid=624&f=32&PH PSESSID=3c9635c48b0f8e1e42e1789f09f4c490 News agency 15-th region http://region15.ru/ - http://region15.ru/ also publishes photos of people every day. So we don't hide our faces. What is actually your point? |
Posted By: Anbalan
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 16:24
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I personly like this one. This photo of an Ossetian woman with baby was taken taken in 1883 by unknown photographer.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-May-2006 at 06:37
Carp/eng.l. = in Slovakian language KAPOR, in Czech it´s KAPR
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Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 14:15
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Good evening! So glad to see that all of you discuss ossetian people and culture. I am osetian (iron) boy from Osetia-Alania. I have fortunately found this forum and I was pleasantly surprised by your posts. The story I want tell happened last year. I have been on student festival where met two girls and a boy from For now I just remember: tarkhus (a rabbit) sudzin (a needle) paddjah (a king) margh (a bird) ih (ix) (in ice) zaman (time, epoch) byryndjy (a rice) 'nguyldz (a finger) |
Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 18:06
Posted By: DayI Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 07:32
Posted By: TheMan Date Posted: 29-May-2006 at 08:07
Posted By: Maziar Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 12:01
Posted By: mamikon Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 12:13
Posted By: bg_turk Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 12:18
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 12:50
Posted By: Maziar Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 17:05
Posted By: Anbalan Date Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 09:19
Posted By: Anbalan Date Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 09:53
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I believe there is nothing wrong if some nations want self rulling. It is matter of time when the international community recognize the right of nations for self-determination. 
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